[Message from blahaj.zone] Neopronouns are not trolling
[Message from blahaj.zone] Neopronouns are not trolling
cross-posted from: https://lemmy.blahaj.zone/post/20091173
I've been waiting until after Christmas day to make this post, but some of our communities recently have had a lot of noise and upset over someone that uses neopronouns that most people are unfamiliar with.
So I want to make this clear. A persons pronouns are to be respected. This is true when the user is using neopronouns that you're unfamiliar with. It's true even if you think someone is trolling. Pronouns are not rewards for good behaviour. They aren't only to be respected when you like the person you're interacting with, or if their pronouns "make sense" to you. Trolls, spammers, twitter users, it doesn't matter who they are, your options are to respect their pronouns, or to not engage with them.
I really want to re-iterate the importance of this. Gender diverse folk are undermined, invalidated and questioned at every step of our lives. As a community, we need to be working to undo that, not creating more of it, and that means there is no space for treating pronouns (including neopronouns) as a reward for good behaviour.
This isn't a free reign for trolls and spammers. The rules still apply. Trolling, spamming, etc will continue to be dealt with, but it's not an excuse to act as if respecting someones pronouns is optional.
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A commenter was removed and banned for this
I respect the chosen gender of whomever chooses their gender, but that's limited to he/she/they. The gender spectrum is real and valid, but you will never make me refer to that dragonfucker idiot as "drag/drag". I support gender expression, I do not support being made to speak nonsense words for attention seeking adult children. Nonbinary and trans people deserve support, not the spoilt little shits who demand I refer to them by "glomph/glue'. And I resent the idea that they are equally valid concerns. So yes, they are fucking trolling. They're not trolling me, they're attaching their bullshit to a class of people who deserve our respect and support, following them around wearing clown shoes and undermining their very real concerns. If you support gender expression, then support the people trying to survive a world hostile to their very existence, not the people playing at it.
as 'gatekeeping'
I guess Blahaj is now added to the list of instances I avoid when possible. Unfortunate.
A lot of people say the same things about trans folks in terms of gay rights. Some people might be fucking around, but drawing a line in the sand like that is going to inevitably invalidate people with legitimate identities. And if you really don't want to use them, it's super easy to just ignore. Idk if I've ever even had to refer to someone with third person pronouns on Lemmy.
Some people might be fucking around, but drawing a line in the sand like that is going to inevitably invalidate people with legitimate identities.
All concepts are just lines in the sand, even down into STEM. Lines have to be drawn somewhere. The question is whether the new line drawn or erased disrupts other lines, who it benefits, and what it's worth. I happen to have a very low opinion of the idea that gender is entirely arbitrary and without any line in the sand, and that "I identify as an attack helicopter" is not a conservative defamation of the trans and NB community, but a legitimate point of view.
And if you really don’t want to use them, it’s super easy to just ignore.
The commenter was removed and banned for disagreeing with the concept that dragonfucker is a gender. On the meta comm for the instance. Under a post by the main admin.
Idk if I’ve ever even had to refer to someone with third person pronouns on Lemmy.
Dragonfucker has been banned from a number of communities for insisting on just that.
the human brain is good enough of a prediction machine to not need a clean linear line in the sand imo, I'd like to believe that our judgement ability is closer to a support vector machine than a simple one dimensional 'greater than' statement
e.g. you'd know if someone was actually identifying as an attack helicopter as opposed to trolling by saying so, right? maybe it's just a phase for them but people have phases (imo) because they need to probe and gather first hand experience to learn
you'd know if someone was actually identifying as an attack helicopter as opposed to trolling by saying so, right?
IRL maybe, but the issue here is that (at least from what I've observed) dragonfucker can be pretty confrontational, as if seeking a fight. It's obnoxious behavior and generally I roll my eyes and move along. I do think identifying as a "dragonfucker" for gender is hard to take as anything other than a long-running troll job, particularly because 1) dragons aren't real and even if they were, 2) "dragonfucker" is surely a hobby or job description, not a gender. Most reasonable people would find this ludicrous at first glance, and have their opinion confirmed by this user's strident tone and eagerness to take offense. It seems really unlikely that this person sincerely identifies as a dragonfucker (and honestly I can't even believe we're having this debate).
I really try to be balanced and understanding, but this user in particular seems to seek negative attention. Which is fine I guess, but I feel bad for anyone who falls into that trap.
Exactly, well said. And all it does is make a mockery of people experiencing real issues with gender uncertainty/fluidity.
As I recall, drag has said that "dragonfucker" is not drag's gender identity. It's just a username
A lot of people say a lot of things, who cares?
I don't think it's an unfair line to draw at all. We draw it at what's real and what's not.
Gender as a spectrum is real. We know this. We also know that the person posting comments on Lemmy isn't a fucking dragon because dragons aren't real.
Line drawn.
I thought the post was about neopronouns in general. Didn't know the drag example was the main concern and thought it was just an exaggerated example.
"Dragself" is not a legitimate identity. I get what you're trying to say, but wherever that blurry line may be, I am confident that people with absurd neopronouns like that are not on the right side of it.
You don't get to decide what is and isn't a legitimate identity :)
Well you are certainly dragging your self.
Even if we take the person pug is talking about at face value (which, frankly, we shouldn't for them in particular), it's not a gender identity. It's just an identity. We don't have a pronoun for every granular identity under the sun, so it's weird we accept that some people feel the need to have totally unique ones, which goes against the point of pronouns to begin with.
That said, being referred to in the third person would actually be fine imo, but I've been primed for that by being a weeb.
You don't have to refer to them at all, just block obvious troll accounts. It's not like you're going to shame them into not being a troll.
That might've gone over better if it didn't read like an angry rant against "idiots"/"adult children"/"spoiled little shits"
If it was banned for incivility, that would have been one thing. But it was banned for 'gatekeeping'. Writing on the wall, and all that jazz.
Seems mostly ok to kick someone for being rude and directly offending a specific person in their posts, regardless of the opinion voiced.
Yep I had a feeling this was about that dragonfucker. So fucking obnoxious, and being forced to "respect" this bullshit is obviously eroding much needed support for trans people who aren't terminally online spoilt little shits.
I cannot wait for mockery and satire to make a resurgence in the media throughout the 2030s and 40s, as a reaction to the American Left's insane bent for language policing. It's going to be wonderful.
No one needs pronouns on the web. If I wanted to quote or refer to the OP, I would simply use the proper noun 'qaz' - qaz says, qaz wrote. It reminds me of an absurd Microsoft keynote presentation a couple of years ago where each host not only provided their names as well as a description of their clothing for vision-impaired viewers (useful information), but tacked on their pronouns too. 'Over to you, Lisa!' 'Thanks Bob'.
I have no sympathy for instances like Blahaj in this particular aspect of moderation. This is a social and political millstone you fitted around your own necks.
i see the gatekeeping. It's the same an antiLGBTQ person would say to an LGBTQ... "your pronouns aren't valid". So yes. It is gatekeeping. Thank you mods for keeping the area LGBTQ allied!