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Literally impossible to avoid Nestle. Even going to a restaurant or getting take out, benefitted Nestle in some way. Really it's the fault of governments for allowing a corporation to get that big
It's hard but not impossible. When you go grocery shopping always look at the back of the product to see if it has the taint.
Problem is indeed the restaurant as you can't be sure if they didn't you nestle products.
I can't help but notice you have disagreed with the comment above you, then gone on to explain that the exception to your disagreement is the exact scenario they described.
Except no? Its not "literally impossible" to avoid nestle. You simply have to shop your groceries more mindful.
But okay, if its utterly impossible to look on the back of the package and or do a quick internet search to see if that label belongs to nestle, yeah its impossible.
Joining in because why not. The comment OP never mentioned groceries. They mentioned how it's impossible to avoid Nestle when eating out/getting take out, which you agreed with.
The important thing is, they disagree, can't we just leave it at that and be angry in peace?
Nah, man. Getting shitty at people on the Internet is one of life's greatest joys.
Subsidiary companies, basically companies that are owned by another, to my knowledge are not required to display that they're owned by another company. Or if they do, it's in EXTREMELY fine lettering.
A lot of the time, you have to have an encyclopedic knowledge of what brands are nestle brands, or yes, it's actually impossibly to make a decision.
This whole thread is weird. I think it's hilarious how people are arguing with you, saying it's impossible and then linking sites that list every brand owned by Nestlé. You'd think it would occur to them that if one is able to consult a list, that makes it possible to avoid Nestlé products, since one can merely consult the list.
I think there are some synapses not firing here 😅
We're not arguing that there are lists. We're arguing that it's not always displayed on packaging. Subsidiary companies of nestle may not display the logo or name anywhere, or do so in such small lettering that it's very hard to overlook. When the other commenter is saying all it takes is "a bit of discipline" no, that's simply not the case. It takes discipline AND either an external resource, or an encyclopedic knowledge of every company nestle owns. If you want to sling insults at people at least understand what they're saying.
So then you admit that it's definitely possible, and not impossible, to avoid Nestle products
If you want to throw all nuance out of the equation, sure. There are a ton of ways to completely avoid nestle.
If you want to actually engage with what I said, though, it's a lot harder than your attitude implies.
You're talking to someone with celiac disease and severe lactose intolerance. Sure, it's "impossible to avoid Nestle," in the same way that it's "impossible to avoid gluten and dairy."
Aka, it's possible. I rely on reading labels, researching brands, and researching a restaurant before ever setting foot inside. If I can do this, then someone who wants to avoid Nestle can too. It's very possible.
Celiac and lactose intolerance are completely different from avoiding a brand. Both of those are specific compounds, we have laws stating we must list ingredients included in items, and "lactose free" and "gluten free" have been turned into marketing terms,very proudly displayed on a lot of packaging. It's also pretty simple to understand both lactose and gluten, where they come from, and narrow it down to a single ingredient, maybe with a few alternative names, that will cause issues.
You also have a direct response to the things that trigger you. If you make the mistake once you probably figure out what item it is, and don't make the same purchase. That feedback doesn't exist on a brand level. This (for example) peanut butter tastes the same as the other, has the same effects on my body. You have to do ACTIVE research on the brand to find out that they're owned by nestle. These are not equivalent in the slightest.
I would bet money that if I looked through your pantry and fridge right now you have something you didn't realize was nestle. They actively use deception in the form of different brands that don't display the nestle logo in order to hide the fact that it's a nestle item. Again, you're completely disregarding the arguments people are putting forth and actively calling them less than intelligent.
You'd think it would occur to them that if one is able to consult a list, that makes it possible to avoid Nestlé products
I think you're forgetting something. This entire chain started with an example to support the theory of it being impossible. The one about eating out where you don't know the ingredients being served to you or what brand they're from. You chose to ad hom without even addressing it. 🤷
Oh sorry I didn't realize we are legally mandated to eat out at places that use Nestle products, my bad.
The statement that it's impossible is entirely wrong.
Was that supposed to be a coherent response? Everyone eats out. I think you would have to scour a nation pretty thoroughly to find even a single person that hasn't at least had a McDonald's shake or something. Whether something is mandated or not was not the conversation. The conversation was whether or not it's possible to actively avoid completely, and restaurants hardly ever list their recipe as it is proprietary.
Are you legally mandated to go shop at the grocery store? No? Then why would you posit that response? You're going to need more to support your claim than what you've said here before you can justify dismissing people.
hasn’t at least had a McDonald’s shake or something
What they've done in the past is irrelevant. If they choose to forgo Nestle products from this day forward, then it is possible.
Are you legally mandated to go shop at the grocery store? No?
I never argued that one was legally mandated to shop at a grocery store. Whether one shops at a grocery store or not, one can consult a list and therefore not buy Nestle products. This is quite simple.
Then why would you posit that response?
Just as an example of how it is possible not to buy certain products, regardless of how ubiquitous they are.
Past, present, or future- it doesn't matter. People need to eat. Suggesting that people just don't go to restaurants is as helpful as suggesting people just don't go to grocery stores. That's why this fact:
restaurants hardly ever list their recipe as it is proprietary.
is doing a great job of convincing me that it is actually impossible, and if I'm honest you've said nothing to convince me otherwise. I think that's the disconnect.
I'm not going to stop going to restaurants. Don't get me wrong, I hate Nestle as much as the next lemming, but restaurants are not something I'm ever going to be able to cut out of my life completely. And I'm willing to bet my life on this being true for a lot of people.
Well thats a bit harsh, don't you think :)
Also not only are there those lists, but we all have an internet enabled smartphone nearly always with us right? So check the label, see its hierarchy and decide then.
Yeah true, I was probably harsh. It's more like people taking a position and then protecting it at all costs, even when it unravels lol
Pot, meet kettle!
The issue with boycotting a huge company like Nestlé is that you put in a ton of time and effort while denying yourself lots of useful products and on Nestlé's end, they lose out on less profit than they bring in in a single minute.
They made $9.7 billion Net income in 2022. That's over $18,000 EVERY MINUTE. You can't make a difference and they don't care. The only ways to enact change are either through the legislative/regulatory route or through the extralegal route.
Sure, its pissing against the wind. And I lose out on kitkat and lion (damn i liked that bar) or I need to buy "clones" but I can't wholeheartedly buy their shit. It may not be much, but atleast i can live with myself.
You could order KitKat from the US. Hershey makes it here.
I wouldn’t recommend it though, Nestle KitKat is much better. It’s a shame Nestle is so evil or else I’d be driving over to Canada to stock up every few weeks.
The amount of sugar and palm kernel oil in Nestle chocolate makes me not even enjoy their products if I get them for free. They barely taste like cocoa
It's not always that obvious. Nestle owns many companies and many of those products say nothing about Nestle on them.
https://charlesstover.github.io/peoplecott/
That website helps with the products that aren't obviously marked Nestlé.
Thats a searchable list of all products/brands by Nestle? Thats quite helpful!
Sure they do own many companies. I just dont think its impossible, as I steer clear of anything nestle. Sometimes I grab something new and sounds interesting like the Vegan products by Gourmet Garden and just putting it quickly back as I saw nestles logo printed on the back.
It takes a bit of discipline.
Lol, no, you don't understand. Companies (literally millions of them) own many other companies that they never put any logo on or anything. For an outside of Nestle example, check out this list of companies owned by Kroger that you will never find anything labeled by Kroger inside of:
https://www.kroger.com/i/kroger-family-of-companies
Also this list may be VERY incomplete because it's hosted by Kroger and they have no obligation to give the entire truth here.
Food 4 Less, Ralph's, and Jay C Foods all have Kroger brand foods on their shelves. Not sure about the rest as I haven't shopped at the rest of those stores. Also they are attempting to acquire Albertson's.
I've never seen Kroger nor any of that companies. Do they sell in Germany?
And if the umbrella company is proud of thier products they bought, of course they put their label on it or state it somewhere. Where else would be the point of it? Brand recognition and all.
Kroger is a grocery store chain in the US, I suspect they don't operate in Germany but I might be wrong.
They basically are or own many different grocery store chains across most of the US.
I think you're missing the point I was making. There's a lot of Nestlé products that don't have their logo anywhere on the packaging because it's instead made by a company Nestlé owns
can you give an example?
Because all those products https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Nestlé_brands are made by "companies" that on first look are not "owned" by nestle even though I always saw their huge logo somewhere on its packaging.
"It takes a bit of discipline."
Also, you should work on your tone, speaking like you're holier than thou is already cringe, but when you're wrong it just makes you look like a big idiot.
Yes it does take a bit of discipline. And no, I dont think I'm holier than thou.
I don't think they were saying it ONLY takes a bit of discipline. To me, the charitable interpretation is, they're saying that they see something new they want, and see the nestle logo, and the act of denying the want takes discipline.
You're both right, of course. It DOES take discipline to always put back the nestle-labeled goods, and there are MANY nestle-subsidiary-owned items that don't have a nestle logo in sight
Edit: ok, a bit lower hea def being holier than thou a bit lol
Is it? I've not knowingly consumed anything from Nestlé in 20 years.
Edit: I have a bland palate and having a dairy allergy helps. I'm also incredibly stubborn!
That's awesome! I think it's important to note, however, that the burden of change here is not on the individual. The average person is not an activist, and shouldn't be expected to be. Nestle knows that, too.
Change on this scale can only happen through government regulation.
That's an interesting justification for contributing to Nestle. There's no more personal responsibility left in this country I swear
Do you also wear blood diamonds and eat veal?
No.
Doing your own part as much as you are aware or capable is good, but if I were to try to avoid anything unethically sourced, I simply would not be able to participate in the modern world.
Do you use electricity? Do you have a cell phone? Have you ever used anything battery operated, like a flashlight? Have you ever eaten a hamburger? Have you worn a shirt?
Going around shaming people for things that are simply inevitably contributing to some unethical corporation is useless. We just need to agree that there is a problem, and do our best to make change.
I'm all for making personal commitments on topics you feel passionate about. But the fact is, that won't make a difference on the grand scale. Only through government action is that possible.
Actually you can make a difference. I guarantee there are at least a couple younger family members that look up to you.
Any children you might have will learn from your example.
It really seems like you were trying to justify contributing to a truly evil industry by saying that there are plenty of other evil industries...
"Well nothing is ethical so I don't have to be!"
Do you also wear blood diamonds and eat veal?
Why, do you expect me to wear blood rubies while eating veal, like some prole?
Oh you've consumed Nestle, you just don't know it. They have over 200, brands and millions of individual products. Not to mention their non food companies. Again, it's an issue that governments should have dealt with long ago, and never should have let them get that big
Eating zerocarb (aka carnivore) works, especially if you only drink tap water; Add coffee and you have to be a little careful
Also be careful on soaps and hair care
Zero carb has its own host of issues, not just from the nutrition side of things, but also a host of ethical concerns
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Oh really? Funny I haven't seen any nutritional deficiencies in my year on that way of eating, and haven't died of scurvy even once. In fact I'm in the best health I ever have had since I was a youth
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Ethics? Eating animals raised on grass (in places which don't support other agriculture) is worse than clear felling forests to support monoculture cereals?
My food supports the land it grows on, which hosts a myriad other species
Wow, you only eat meat from animals which you yourself raised, slaughtered and prepared?
Even if that were the case (which it isn't), not everyone can do that.
Do you know, why that is?Because eating animals is wasteful as fuck.
Btw. What do you think you "animals raised on grass" (which they aren't) are fed with? Maybe soy from monocultures?
Also, serious ethical questions even for “ethical” slaughter.
no OP but that REALLY depends on where you live. rn i know about 4-5 farmers that raise cattle ONLY on free range pastures and dont subsidue their feed with anything else and can buy directly from them without any middle men
and i fucking hate the "so what if you can, others cant" argument in threads like these. OP was stating that they do this and its better for them. never did they say its better for everyone to do this
I live in Australia near our mountain pastures. The meat supply is a mix of local grass fed and finished beef and lamb, and grain finished beef from up north
The grass finished meat has a healthier fat balance and tastes better
I always ask butchers where my meat was raised and how it was finished as that affects the ethics and flavour. I agree with you that meat raised on grain is wasteful.
Where's the waste in what I buy? They drink from mountain streams, they eat grass. Most of their meat goes to human food, most of the rest goes to pet food, the skin becomes leather
When I cook more meat than I can eat, the extra goes in the fridge and I eat it for the next meal
On the relevant subreddit (which hasn't moved to Lemmy) I have heard it's easy to get grass finished beef in the US too
I live in a ranching state (South Dakota) where beef is processed locally, and it's nearly impossible to get grass-fed meat. Sure, some of it is labeled "grass-fed" with a drastically higher price point (unsustainable for most people), but the whole industry is so corrupt and ethically bankrupt that it's a meaningless label, just like almost anything else you buy here.
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