1y ago

Matthew Perry’s Cause of Death Revealed as ‘Acute Effects of Ketamine’

variety.com

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1y ago

Matthew Perry’s Cause of Death Revealed as ‘Acute Effects of Ketamine’

variety.com /2023/tv/news/matthew-perry-cause-of-death-ketamine-1235772053/

178 comments

Im fairly certain that what I'm about to say will be disliked by ketamine users and abstainers.
Ketamine is garbage at everything besides temporarily lobotomizing people. It works for it's many uses because it makes the user stupid. It's often given to suicidal people, not because it's a miracle drug, but because it incapacitates them in a safe manner.
That said, it's great at making people too stupid to be able to hurt themselves, most of the time. It's great at numbing psychological pain because the user will be too stupid to conceptualize their own thoughts or realize where they are physically.
It's also hard on the urinary system and has a fleeting high.
If you like ketamine then by all means, you do you. If you may be interested in trying ketamine, become a zombie safely, just don't expect it to cure your depression, woes, or any of your other problems.
- Yeah, I'm gonna take the peer reviewed studies results that show that ketamine is quite effective with relieving drug resistant depression over this post of yours...
  
  https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2023/10/ketamine.html
  Yeah but I don’t like when peoole see one study and then claim that it’s conclusive. The consensus is that there may there might be something to it being useful for depression, and it should be studied further. No high confidence.
  
  It is useful in creating a sense of disassociation of self - the same thing that meditation does. It even affects the same regions of the brain as meditation. When used carefully, with therapeutic intent, it can be an effective treatment for depression.
  Recreational use is sketchy, definitely. But the science is there for using it therapeutically.
  
  But your assessment of its efficacy is not contradictory to DontHavePants observation. They didn't say it wasn't effective.
  
  I have no dog in this fight, but any studies done on brain chemistry and psychological effects need to be taken with a grain of salt. We know so little about the brain and consciousness that most of the stuff we're trying and doing are educated guesses.
  
  And random social media text posts need to be taken with a cargo ship's load worth of salt.
  
  Nothing I said is in any contention with ketamine/depression studies.
  
  Ketamine is garbage at everything besides temporarily lobotomizing people. It works for it's many uses because it makes the user stupid. It's often given to suicidal people, not because it's a miracle drug, but because it incapacitates them in a safe manner.
  This quote from you contradicts what you've just said.
  
  It doesn't. I can speak to it's mode of action without speaking to it's reason of use or efficacy. It's highly effective. It's great at what it's used for. It also temporarily makes the user stupid and incapacitates them.
  
  That isn't it's mode of action, at all.
  It also doesn't make you stupid, it is a disassociative anesthetic so you lose touch, to varying degrees, of your senses. At high enough doses even your sense of hearing becomes strange and I would bet if my doc gave me more it would fail almost completely. That's not a place I want to go however.
  Despite that, and appearing to be incapable of coordinated movement or speech, the mind is still active. Altered, yes. But active and intact. I am always aware of my partner in the room/bed with me, the dog checking things out, I just choose not to interact with them to continue exploring memories, or alien landscapes, or just turn off my mind, listen to the music, and let the drug work while the most fantastic and surreal images come and go.
  I'm here today because of ketamine. Disinformation and pearl clutching threatens to reduce access to it, and could cost lives, speaking only of this one niche use.
  
  I'm not trying to diminish anyone's experiences with ketamine, or reduce anyone's access to it, though I do think it's funny everyone thinks that some asshole on the internet has that ability.
  Are you able to stand up when using ketamine? How about run? Could you tell me your personal details such as name/date/address? Could you tell me the time? Could you remember your mother's phone number? Could you take a bath? Could you safely use a knife? Could you melt into nothingness and lose all sense of self, physicality and emotion?...wait strike that last one. Of course you could.
  Now we're at the point that we all realize dissociation is to become stupid and incapacitated. Anesthitized even?
  
  Ahhhhh, so you did come back to say more dumb stuff. I literally baby sat a group of friends on the stuff two weekends ago. Sure, they said some amusing things, but at least 95% of what they said was perfectly coherent and made sense. As evidenced by one of them saying "you know you're getting old when you have more cos you're lower back starts to ache". By your description, that should not have been possible. Yet it was. Sure, you enter a k-hole and you're good for nothing, but most K experiences don't enter that and people can function fine enough on it - like most drugs the intensity of effect is dose dependent. But like I said in a previous comment, you seem to be stuck in the 1950s and their anti drugs hysteria.
  
  Your friends were so stupid on ketamine that they needed a babysitter.
  Let me just point out a few things. You could have said "in that case, all drugs make you stupid" which would have been totally valid. You could have said "at the dosage necessary to incapacitate someone, of course they would be stupid", which of course is valid.
  The whole point of my very first comment was to poke at people who love ketamine, and also those who read studies about ketamine and proceed to spread it like gospel.
  There isn't a recreational drug that exists that makes anyone temporarily smarter. They all make us temporarily more stupid. For some reason drug users get real uppity when you point that out, especially about their drug of choice. That's not to say that something can't be taken from the experience that helps someone, or that might inherently make them smarter or self aware. I was just simply stating that when on that drug, you are more stupid. I think that's a lesson that a lot of drug users should be more aware of.
  I've seen a lot of dumb shit happen because someone was mislead about a drugs effects. Hell, I have some K in a stash right now, but let's not misguide people into thinking they will just be coherent floating brains. They may also be floppy dumb messes that may need babysitting for 45 minutes. Will they be just as smart afterward? Probably. But for those 45 minutes they are going to be stupid.
  Good on you for being a trip sitter. You're good people. People deserve to try drugs in a safe manner and that's what leads to good experiences. Those good experiences are what those stupid people deserve.
  
  I mean, that's one way to interpret it. The way I intended it was that they were smart enough to have a sober friend with them in case of issues and it also meant they had a sober ride home that wasn't gonna cost them a shit load in taxi/rideshare charges. Were all almost 40yo. We've learnt our limits. We respect them. We have fun. Hell, I've seen one guy balls deep into a 3 day MDMA binge jump onto his work laptop and legit solve a problem. To be fair to you, as he said himself "that was way harder than it should've been, and realistically I shoulda done it in half the time. But fuck. I did it". And I think he nailed it right there. Like, yes, drugs alter you you and they can do it significantly. But they don't all make you dumber. More impulsive, less guarded, all that shit. Sure. But they don't all make you dumb. People have literally had scientific breakthroughs that had stymied researchers for decades cos of drugs. Sure,the list isn't long, but it's happened pretty regularly.
  
  I've ingested a ton of ketamine myself, so theres no pearl clutching here. I'll be back tomorrow to continue arguing semantics.
  
  did you use if for medical purposes or fun times?
  
  So you sound like someone with some experience using drugs (particularly those of psychedelic or hallucinatory nature), right?
  So you would know that drugs effect everyone differently. Personally, I never abused ketamine, but I have k-holed a handful of times, and my personal experience was that it had a profound effect on me in many ways.
  But that's just my personal experience. Nothing more, nothing less.
  Anyway, those who know, know MXE (methoxetamine) was way better for that brief period of time before the supply permanently dried up.
  
  You've never abused ketamine, but you've k-holed?
  Ummm...?
  
  I wouldn't consider k-holing abuse personally. A k-hole is a desired effect of the drug for many people.
  Ketamine can be addictive though, and I would consider frequent/habitual use to be abuse.
  
  Yeah, that's not abuse. If I was using it on a regular basis, then it would be abuse. I've never, personally, found it to be particularly addictive.
  
  Your personal experiences are your own bud.
  
  That's literally exactly what I said. Good job.
  
  Again, you're not actually contradicting Pants, you're just rewording and massaging their snark.
  
  You didn't though. You used a blanket statement. As evidenced by your use of the word "everything". Your entire initial comment reads as if it was written in the grip of anti drugs hysteria in the 1950s and shows none of the nuance you're now trying to claim it does.
  You're also wrong on its mode of action, so you're not even speaking to that. It doesn't work by making the user "too stupid to conceptualize their own thoughts or realize where they are physically".
  
  He said everything except "temporarily lobotomizing people" which was clearly hyperbole.
  He then gave examples where the sedation provided by ketamine can be beneficial.
  
  This guy gets it.
  
  There are so many overly pedantic haters that recently joined Lemmy. Every post now is controversial as fuck judging by the downvoting going on.
- Or, get this, everyone experiences drugs differently and your bad anecdote is irrelevant next to the mountains of evidence and peer reviewed studies.
  
  Once again, I haven't disputed or attempted to refute any of these "mountains of evidence."
- I judge my desire to try drugs by how people act when they’re on them. Do they look like they’re having fun at least? Two drugs I’ve never had an interest in:
  Ketamine
  Nitrous
  
  That's unfortunate. The effects of many drugs can be entirely mental rather than visual, leaving the person looking like they're just laying down with their eyes closed, or staring into space.
  Particularly, ketamine, as a dissociative, at higher doses, is entirely in your mind. What a person in that state looks like from the outside is zero indication of what they are experiencing.
  
  It’s not unfortunate. To me drugs are entirely unnecessary to begin with. And if I choose to use them it’s to enhance an activity, not to replace an activity or be an activity on its own. I’ll be fine.
  
  Well that's not what we were talking about though, was it? We were talking about you judging people based on how they may look while under the influence. That's ignorant.
  Also, I find this to be amusing:
  To me drugs are entirely unnecessary
  Uh huh, so I guess antibiotics are off the table? I sure hope you don't die from a minor infection. Hope you never get diabetes or high blood pressure. No cough medicine or allergy medicine either, that's annoying. I hope you don't have any serious allergies, because EpiPens sure as shit count as "drugs".
  
  To each their own for sure, but that right there is a combination for some very strange times. Sometimes fun is becoming part of the couch and traveling into outer space. They're definitely not all get up and dance and have fun, though.
  
  Nitrous is great
  
  Alcohol.
  
  people definitely look like they are having fun drinking
  
  Can confirm that alcohol is fun for as long as you can stand up straight
  
  drinking alone is shite though.
  
  I've just had some pretty good nights in just me, a bottle of wine, and a movie
  
  Same here. I had some good nights drinking and gaming. Still doesn’t beat toking or eating edibles and gaming though but I've been abstaining for over a year lol
  
  fair enough. for.me.oersonally it started getting out of hand in the pandemic. so I try to keep it social and be a good boy on school nights.
  
  I guess in the commercials. But we don't actually see them drinking.
  
  I had a lot of fun on the booze last night. my mouth is full of regret and bile today however.
- I would add to this that anyone doing ketamine should not do it in the bath, which seems to be what happened here. The same happened to someone I knew, she drowned in the tub.
  
  Any drug close water where you can drown is a recipe for disaster. Someone I knew pop an acid tab at the beach and drown itself.
  
  Yeah, "don't k-hole in the bathtub" seems like pretty good (and hopefully obvious) advice. This seems more like user error than the acute effects of the drug itself.
  He didn't die from overdosing on ketamine, because that's nearly impossible.
  He drowned.
  
  Agreed. Don't get lobotomized in any body of water.
- To expand on the urinary issues ketamine causes, the problem is that ketamine will recrystallize inside your blatter and ketamine crystals can be pretty sharp.
- Ketamine is definitely up there with 'hip' drugs not worth trying.
  Along with MDMA and Xanax.
  I don't really respect anyone who does these because they're usually living a lifestyle that leads to nowhere.
  
  MDMA not worth it? It's euphoria and love in a pill, not addictive, and quite safe when you do not abuse it. Millions of people use it and have been using it for about half a century and the vast majority of it restricts it to when they're partying with few side effects. I think you misjudge its use a bit.
  Yes it can be acutely abused because you're chasing the dragon on nights that you do use it, but that is also a result of its illegal nature and a lack of education.
  Of the chemical variants of drugs, I'd say it's probably one of the few that is actually worth it, besides LSD.
  
  Yeah, I try to tell people that there's value in MDMA beyond just a night out dancing. My favorite times have been on a couch with friends, getting deep into one another and kind of exploring your minds. I've had some incredibly important and memorable conversations with people that I was able to become very close with because MDMA let us drop the walls and talk about things, which is something I cannot do face to face with someone sober. And I'm not an introvert by any stretch, I have no problem being the center of a conversation, I have no problem listening to others, but opening up about personal issues was something MDMA let me do, and say things I never could put into words.
  I've also stood in front of a wall of speakers and had bright lights and bass music thrown at me, and that's also fun.
  
  You'd be shocked by how many very successful and incredibly intelligent people have used drugs (including MDMA). Many still use them regularly. MDMA, in the right setting and in moderation, can (will) be a life-affirming and beautiful experience.
  This honestly sounds like something a child would say after having D.A.R.E. in elementary school.
  
  Do you know any of them personally?
  
  I know people like this. Though I should probably define regularly as once every few weeks for k. Probably closer to like 2 to 4 times a year for MDMA. Obviously if you're doing stuff every day then you won't be productive in a job
  
  You literally just replied to one, my guy.
  And yes, I know plenty of people like that. And chances are, so do you. You just don't know it.
  Edit; in case you're young, I don't want anyone to take this as evidence that "drugs are ok", or "they lied to us about cannabis/MDMA, so that means they lied about heroin too." No. This is why we'd be much better off if they were just honest from the beginning. Not all drugs are created equal, but also the classification system in the US (and most modern nations) is not necessarily based on potential harm.
  So to be clear, my comment is not necessarily true for all drugs, I am specifically referring to MDMA right now (which, before becoming illegal, was used by doctors to great effect as an aid in couples' therapy).
  
  Hmmm, I don't know the second one but mdma is great fun. Of course you have to be in a good state of mind before trying, but it's a potent empathogen that has its uses.
  
  One of the most fun nights of my life is when I went to visit a friend at his university, we took some and he immediately ended up with some girl and disappeared on me.
  So I decided that I would just wander his campus looking for parties. I took shots with frat boys, danced with some gays guy out dressed in drag, played chess with some guy on the quad (he would have destroyed me even if I was sober), found another friend and went and partied with her and her lesbian friends ("wait you're a lesbian now?" "Maybe not sure") and then made the biggest mistake of my life when I turned down joining them when I was making a hasty exit after I noticed one of the girls was eating the other out right next to me on the couch.
  
  wild 😁 Yea I get how you'd want a do over heheh
  My experience is very vanilla coming after yours, but we had some of that and spent the entire night in my last floor apartment just chatting and drinking looking at the sea. It was full moon too. At one point I must have thought it was around midnight, I peeked at the east-facing window in my room and a big ball of fire was burning on the horizon. Time really flew this night...

178 comments