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They do said Democrat aren't left at all, and the real left is anarchy or something.
Well that's true. It's just that anarchists prefer the centrist party over the openly fascist party, because we don't want to live in a fourth reich.
Correctimundo!
I've been told the true leftists would rather live under fascism dejure then compromise their morals by lending any support to the democrats.
Yep, the Russian trolls sure are saying that a lot
Thank you for saying this. I'm so tired of them gaslighting every conversation pretending like they aren't bottom feeders crawling out of the sewers every election cycle.
“No true Scotsman…”
Anarchists prefer to not waste time by putting so much fucking energy into electoral politics. Vote, if you want (I'm not your Boss), but don't spend sooo much time into electoralism.
It's a small amount of energy to materially affect the environment in which you expend real energy on your praxis of choice. If you're not enthusiastically voting at least lesser evil, you're hamstringing your own praxis.
WTF does my enthusiasm or lack thereof have to do with it.
Enthusiasm encourages others to follow suit.
Look, I'm already gritting my teeth and doing what needs to be done to keep Trump out of office and now liberals want to loudly complain that I'm not enthusiastic enough about it. If anything short of enthusiastic support for another corporate dem will lead us into fascism, then it's already fucking here.
It literally is already fucking here and we need to stop it from getting more power. It has already taken over part of the government. You throwing up your hands and giving up is not helping this fight.
Who said I was giving up? That's what has me so frustrated. Expressing even the slightest criticism of Kamala has an army of liberals chastising me for contributing to voter apathy and telling me to be more enthusiastic. I'm not apathetic at all, I'm fired up, sick of this shit, and will never stop demanding more of the people who claim to be protecting us from the fascists. If the US falls to the christofascists it will be the dems' - and all the liberals who uncritically support them - faults and not mine.
Holy victim blaming. You really spent that whole paragraph describing shit things Republicans are doing and want to do, and then ended it by saying you'll fight Democrats and if the shitty things happen you'll blame democrats.
Dude, think about what you're saying here.
I'M NOT FIGHTING DEMOCRATS. CRITICISM IS NOT CONDEMNATION. SUPPORT IS NOT BINARY.
Of course the Republicans are most responsible for their own actions, but by doing a piss-poor job of countering them, constantly compromising on our values for political convenience, and refusing to turn a critical lens on ourselves for fear of losing we sabotage our own efforts.
I will repeat what you misinterpreted so you can give it some more thought: I will never stop demanding more of the people who claim to be protecting us from the fascists.
Reread my comment again, it's only 2 sentences. No one's "loudly complaining".
Sorry to release my frustrations entirely on you, you are but one voice in a cacophony. I only mean to point out how infuriating a response "please show more enthusiasm or the christofascists might win" is to criticism of the opposition candidate.
Well, leftist apathy does make a christofascist win more likely. Criticizing the lesser evil right before an election does increase leftist apathy. Just because it's infuriating doesn't make it false.
As if the mere act of voting is the only energy being put into electoralism.
don't tell me what to do
I didn't, just described the consequences
I'm not talking about the act of voting itself. I'm talking about discussions, canvassing and campaigning for some lesser evil candidate.
Why? You're the only one taking about that. I'm talking about the act of voting itself.
Just because you don't want to see all that excess energy doesn't mean that it doesn't exist.
I'm confused as to what other people do with their time and money has to do with you. Your statement was that anarchists don't want to spend the energy engaging with electorialism, other people engaging with it to the point of canvassing and donations doesn't force you to. All you have to do is vote, and recommend others vote if it comes up.
I can be critical of what other people do. That's like... the basics of systemic societal critique.
Your criticisms are non sequiturs.
Your comment about anarchists and electorialism was a response to a comment saying anarchists prefer the center right party over the far right party. No one said anything about anarchists canvassing and fundraising for the center right party.
Your criticisms of canvassing and fundraising, while not entirely untrue, are absolutely irrelevant to to topic at hand. When you're having a discussion, you keep your comments relevant to the topic of discussion. That's like... the basics of conversation.
I'm going to be scrolling memes and shitposting either way because it's how I relax. I think my fun should be socially conscious instead of only being about me. I should spend time doing good for others if it costs nothing.
I don't know a single anarchist that 'prefer the quietly fascist party over the openly fascist party' most of them prefer to DA the military contractors that are party to the latest american-supplied genocide.
Well, now you know one. Kamala is firmly against Netanyahu's genocide, and I think after she's no longer reliant on Joe for her campaign money and connections, she'll be a bit more active about her opinions. She's a good candidate. The DNC is moving in a good direction. It's time to apply some positive reinforcement so they keep doing the good thing.
Are you sure you're an anarchist?
Kamala is firmly against Netanyahu’s genocide
The American supplied genocide which was the explicit policy of the Biden regime she was a part of. The administration that repeatedly bypassed congress to supply genocidal settlers with ammunition. Got it.
If I waited for a candidate who's perfect before I got invested, they would never come because the politicians would realise anarchists aren't invested and don't vote. I'm supporting an imperfect candidate who is better than anyone else we've ever gotten, because I'm hoping next time they choose someone even better.
If you won't reward your dog for doing a little trick, how's it going to learn to do a big one?
If you won’t reward your dog for doing a little trick, how’s it going to learn to do a big one?
The actual analogy here is that you're rewarding your dog for not doing any tricks, and expecting me to be so impressed by your ability to train your dog that I also decide to feed them treats for doing nothing
For a dog who's been trained for 50 years to support genocide, not supporting genocide is a pretty impressive trick. And Kamala doesn't support genocide. Doing nothing deserves a reward.
She's literally second in command for the administration wringing its hands about the bodies piling up but continuing to send weapons and aircraft carriers to protect the colonial occupiers.
Was dick cheney not part of the bush admins crimes?
The one 'anarchist' who has managed to talk themselves into supporting american war criminals
So this eventually boils down to : you're an american, so you are complicit too.
Which is not how it works (except in religious fanatism).
Was Dick Cheney complicit in Iraq /Afghanistan?
Im not playing degrees of Kevin bacon here, that's why so many people have been shouting at Democrats to dial back the genocide, if they're towing the line they're complicit.
She's not first in command. I'd volunteer to be guilty by association too if it meant I could stop the funding of genocide when the 80 year old kicks the bucket. Who knows, maybe she's been slipping poison into his coffee. It's what I'd do.
The real left is much more like Europe than what the democrats do in America. Our Overton window has been rocketing right for 40 years and now apparently I’m an anarchist or something for wanting more from my government like actually taxing rich people and actually then using that money on healthcare education and housing, employment rights, and other social programs.
Vote blue no matter who means we are always compromising to the center which means we are always moving more right. The very fact that we aren’t getting a primary and voting for basically a cop after years of acab has my skin crawling. Am I voting for her, yes. But to be told to shut up and be happy about it and having any other vocal opinions is absolutely horse shit.
All you "waaaaah I hate compromising" people during Democratic primaries: cricket cricket
There was no primary for this election. That’s my point. Kamala was just foisted on us
There was very obviously no time for an open primary this election. Now talk about literally every single other election in recent history.
France pulled off a primary in 20 days.
As for last election the farce that happened with Hillary was fantastic. I loved how I couldn’t even vote for my candidate because they were edged out before the primary was run in my state. If the DNC were ever serious about elimination of first past the post they would do it with their primaries
This may blow your mind, but France is an entirely different country from the US, with an entirely different structure of government.
Wow what I had no idea. What a mind blowing shock to my system. Imagine a world where we could discuss the merits and strategies of moving our system of government to be more like that one instead of the only allowed topic of discussion being “trump bad anything else good no matter who”
moving our system of government to be more like that one
So now you're talking about a Constitutional convention, which is a whole different pipe dream.
You don’t need a constitutional convention to make primaries possible in less time nor do you need it for the dnc to change their primary runoff methodology.
You also don’t need a constitutional convention to pass policies that change our tax code, change our healthcare system, change our military budget, change education, etc. you know the thing I pushed for at the beginning of the thread. Not that you likely have been able to keep track of that as you shift your goalposts. You’ve been reduced to team sports and gotchas instead of being able to think with nuance so I can’t expect much in terms of critical thinking
For all the policies in your second paragraph, we just need a Dem supermajority. No nebulous "change the system" distraction needed.
For changing how the DNC works primaries, this one time, so close to the deadline, it's such a ridiculous idea that only helps Republicans, it's not even worth discussing. Such a transparent call for Dems to shoot themselves in the foot. Ridiculous.
Oh but ensign crab recently told me she's a progressive and that's why people are excited?