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do you disagree with all the ethical principles I mentioned, or the facts I listed? Or do you think that the conclusion doesn't follow from the premises?
Somehow, you think this is a debate. It isn't. It's me fucking around because vegans are zealots that call people that don't agree with them psychopaths (which isn't really a useful term now, the dsm classifies things differently, but I'm okay with the colloquial usage here, no worries).
What I do disagree with is the assumption that a cobbled together set of beliefs makes someone better than another, which is exactly what someone is showing when they start throwing around terms like psychopath willy nilly like that.
Seriously, dude, you already proved my point. It was inevitable that someone would, or just happened to be you. I've had my laugh, you've had your moment of feeling superior, so I think we both had a good time :)
I don't think people who disagree with me are psychopaths. I think that given enough time and discussion I could convince most people that based on their own principles, veganism is the right thing to do. On the other hand, people who don't give a fuck about how they affect others, would not be sympathetic to any line of reasoning I could think of. That's all I was trying to say there
Well, that's a very nice way to say it :)
I'm not sure why you went there, but hey, we all fuck up, right?
But you're still making a huge assumption. You're assuming that anyone that isn't vegan doesn't give a fuck about how they affect others. You're assuming that anyone you can't convince would be wrong, because your logic, your arguments are the right ones by default.
You've been pretty busy trying to debate and argue. Did you ask what kind of meats I eat, how often, how I source them, or anything else that wasn't meant specifically to debate, convert, or otherwise change my stance? No.
And that's not unexpected. I've had this conversation maybe a hundred times. I can count on two hands the number of vegans that went as far as you just did by walking back their aggression. That's actually pretty impressive tbh, because this all started with me baiting vegans. Kudos :)
Now, there is a fundamental gap between the usual vegan perspective on human/animal interactions/usage and personal beliefs. That gap is different at a level that, I agree, would not result in me converting to the vegan system. I don't have a problem with people being vegan, I don't want anyone to stop being vegan, or whatever. But I know vegans irl. Vegans that matter enough to me that I've sat and listened and done the whole Jehovah's Witness thing (I'm poking fun, not trying to troll there, it's meant to exaggerate the silliness of the whole thread), with laptops and phones and sources. I cook vegan for these people. Gladly, and I used to even haunt a vegan recipe C/ to expand my recipe base to make better food for them.
I only say that to let you know that it isn't being vegan that I'm baiting and making fun of. It's the accoutrements.
Do you see what I'm getting at? If you don't, that's okay. You don't even have to take the time to try (especially if you've gotten this far, that's a lot of verbiage).
I get what you're saying.
Have you seen don't fuck with cats? I haven't, but from what I understand it's a guy abusing kittens and posting it online, so people doxx him and go to great lengths to bring him to justice. Would you bait those people? Because I have a way lighter reaction than them to orders of magnitudes more animal abuse
Wellll, first fight I ever got in was over a puppy.
But, yeah, I'd fuck with those people. Amateur detectives got it right that time, but it's been a pretty dumb idea overall. Dunno if I'd bait them, I'd likely just directly poke fun at them because they don't have a unified set of beliefs that make them open to a broad troll like this. In other words, the amateur detectives can't be baited, only insulted. The difference may not seem big, but it is in trolling terms.
What makes vegans such a ripe target is the arrogance. It wouldn't work without that. Remember, I don't have a problem with vegans qua vegans. It's the ones that insist these they're right, and anyone that isn't vegan is bad/lesser/wrong/evil/crazy. The normal vegans going about their life see my pitiful little troll, roll their eyes and go on doing their thing. It's only the ones so certain of their own holiness, and the righteousness of their cause that rise to the bait.
That's zealotry, and that's what I bait.
Again, I don't have any problem with people living their beliefs. More power to them. I know and love multiple vegans irl, and cook for them. Vegetarians too, but they don't have the same kind of belief system usually. Hell, one of my vegetarian friends came through this thread and gave me shit lol.
Also, don't watch "don't fuck with cats" if you have strong emotional reactions to that kind of thing. They don't show anything bad, but the story itself will leave you wrung out. It's a good documentary, and an interesting story, but it can be difficult to get through.
The thing is, those people do have the arrogance you describe, and they think that anyone that abuses cats is bad/lesser/wrong/evil/crazy
Yup. And I would fuck with them. But you can't bait them.
So, there's multiple ways to troll. The method I'm using here is baiting. That's where you dangle something to elicit a response from your target audience. The bait has to be something that will set off relatively reliable chains of thought to draw out a relatively narrow range of possible responses.
That's why religious zealots works better than most zealots, or something like religious crazies, or maybe just crazies.
You have to ride a line between an implied insult and an outright insult most of the time with baiting. The closer you get to a direct insult, the more you shift the probable responses into aggression and insults, which isn't fun for anyone.
With the amateur detectives, there isn't really a good bait. You can't draw them in with short and pithy word choices, you'd have to pick specific sub-groups or individuals to make a good bait. Like, maybe something along the lines of armchair cops as an example of why it wouldn't work. There's no cohesion to the group, there's no underlying ethos.
In the specific instance of the documentary, they didn't go after anyone and everyone either. They didn't go around to cat meme subs and bitch about it being abusive to put hats on cats. Those amateurs were after a single person who committed a specific set of crimes.
Contrast that with rude vegans (the target of my bait). They'll show up when meat is mentioned, or when non-industrial farming is discussed and intrude on the discussions.
It's an entirely different way of thinking. Vegans, by virtue of having a semi-dogmatic set of beliefs actively seek out non believers and hassle them in one way or another. The rude ones; I'm aware it isn't every vegan, and it's pretty rare to run into offline. This also isn't referring to direct action and protest irl, that's a different thing than the kind of behavior that makes vegans easy to bait.
If you want a better comparison, instead of amateur detectives, you go to christians knocking on doors, or complaining if you leave a comment like "Jesus fucking Christ". That is much more like online vegan rudeness than the armchair cops.
And, again, that's why using "religious zealots" is so effective it's at least partially true, and it goes right to the kind of thinking that the rude vegans indulge in. They're are a lot of vegans that treat it just like a religion. And when that's the case, you're going to have individuals that are prone to zealotry involved. It's inevitable when there's a movement, an ethos involved.
You know the term carnist? That's perfect example. It's a divisive term, and it directly functions to form an ingroup/outgroup barrier. Infidels, carnist. You see what I'm getting at? Those two words are used the same ways, and they serve the same function.
So, if you want to troll a group with bait, there has to be a bait that will work. You can bait christians, muslims, buddhists, and any other religion. There's a ton of ways to do it. Vegans work the same way in terms of trolling. You dangle something that the rude ones won't be able to resist.
For the armchair popo, there isn't a bait that would be reliable. I'd have to use other methods. It would be harder, it would take more setup, and the chances of failure would be higher too. That means I'd really have to resort to condescension and/or sarcasm. Which, I would if any of them ran around bragging about it and I ran across it, but I haven't run across any of them.
Now, get ready, you're going to love this. I agree with them. Anyone abusing an animal is an asshole, and I would be fine with any of the terms listed being applied to them. The person that for what the documentary was about? They were batshit, and needed to be put in a cell away from anything else for a very long time.
That first fight I mentioned? Dude was kicking a puppy, and my punk-ass six year old self jumped him before my dad even knew what was happening.
Here's where a vegan is going to try and make a case that any animal farming is abusive by default. That's the gap that can't be crossed. I grew up in farm country, if not on a farm. I've worked on smaller farms, I've helped family on their farms. The issue is industrial farming, that's where humane behavior disappears, and that's where I draw my line personally. I'm lucky that I can source my animal foods from people that treat their animals well, and not like a commodity alone. If not, I'd be vegetarian. Not vegan, because the kind of shit vegans stretch to be a bad thing is (and I'm trying to express my opinion, not be insulting, even though it's insulting when it's expressed outside my own head) inane.
But, here's the rub. I don't go bothering other people online about my preferences. I protest mainly with my wallet, though I did engage in peaceful, non obstructive protest in my younger days regarding industrial animal farming. I've also engaged in non peaceful, obstructive protest against other things, but that's a big tangent and this is already super long.
Interesting, well thanks for the look into baiting tactics
No worries :)
Have a good one!
Baby boy, you at it again.
You done gone and kicked the beehive.
Shut yo damn fool mouth and make me a mess of collards and pintos like a good kitchen monkey. I'll be there Saturday.
Lmao!
Dude, you want a plate, I'll hook you up, but you gotta pick up the supplies, my back is fucking wrecked. And it'll have to be next Saturday.
But, yeah man, drag your giant ass fish feet over next weekend. It'll be good to see your punk ass. Why the fuck you can't just text me like a normal human being, I don't know.
Oh, wait, that's right! Not a normal human.
Seriously, fucking text me dude.