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Please don't air my dirty laundry 🥺
Joking aside, I have two primary problems with Snowden.
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His leaks were not just of the moral variety, but also exposed US spycraft. That's... not great.
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I would have been much more convinced of his idealism, even as a change of heart from his prior opinions, had he gone somewhere other than fucking Russia. You expect me to believe you're too moral to stand by while the US spies on its own people, and then go and settle quietly under Putin's regime? Moron, hypocrite, or actual authoritarian scumbag, it doesn't matter to me at this point. I have no desire to see him jailed at this point, but he's no hero to my eyes.
I'm pretty sure Snowden is very opposed to Putin and everything the Kremlin does. He knew he'd be safe there. It was a smart move, evidenced by the fact that over a decade later, the world's richest government hasn't arrested him. Do you agree with the politics of your country's leaders? I certainly don't, but that doesn't make me immoral for living here.
I’m pretty sure Snowden is very opposed to Putin and everything the Kremlin does.
Ah, is that why he was pushing the "Ukrainian invasion is a Western psyop" line before February 24?
There are any number of countries without extradition treaties with the US, and many that have treaties and regularly refuse. Choosing the worst of them, a fascist state? Doesn't look too good.
I'm not aware of that. Source? I was looking for something about this and all I found was an article saying he should speak up about the war. Which seems to ignore the difficult position he's in where he can get murdered by the Kremlin easily. We know this happens in Russia all the time. Even despite that, from the article:
On February 16, 2022, Snowden wrote: “’Russia should not invade Ukraine’. The reason I don’t say it more is because it’s a non-statement: everybody agrees with it, even Russians. The only people who think slogans solve the problem are people who don’t understand the conflict.”
Also, you're actually suggesting he was aligned with Russia from the beginning and that's why he went there?
“’Russia should not invade Ukraine’. The reason I don’t say it more is because it’s a non-statement: everybody agrees with it, even Russians. The only people who think slogans solve the problem are people who don’t understand the conflict.”
https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2022/12/18/the-trouble-with-edward-snowden
Also, you’re actually suggesting he was aligned with Russia from the beginning and that’s why he went there?
No, I'm suggesting he doesn't have principles.
Okay second link is some author taunting Snowden about his tricky position in Russia which is essentially meaningless. Third link is a trash website pushing their app with basically only this content:
Former U.S. spy agency contractor Edward Snowden on Tuesday doubted the veracity of reports of Russia's alleged "invasion" of Ukraine and suggested that statements without evidence could provoke an escalation of the crisis.
"So... if nobody shows up for the invasion Biden scheduled for tomorrow morning at 3 a.m., I'm not saying your journalistic credibility was instrumentalized as part of one of those disinformation campaigns you like to write about, but you should at least consider the possibility," the whistleblower said
I actually find it baffling that essentially we have "at one point doubted an invasion would happen" and "exists in Russia" to hate a guy, especially who did what he did.
I believe now that I think about it, I do remember him backpedaling about the quote above and saying he was wrong.
Okay second link is some author taunting Snowden about his tricky position in Russia which is essentially meaningless.
Wow, it's amazing that in the US he was a hero, but now that he's in Russia it's a 'tricky situation'.
I actually find it baffling that essentially we have “at one point doubted an invasion would happen” and “exists in Russia” to hate a guy, especially who did what he did.
The US at the time came with receipts. It was blatantly obvious at the time. Snowden continued simping for the fascists. And he always will.
I believe now that I think about it, I do remember him backpedaling about the quote above and saying he was wrong.
Oh, okay, so it's okay to call it a CIA psyop if, after it's apparent that it's not even to the staunchest defenders of the conspiracy, you admit that it's not. Of course. Like denying that Nazi Germany is going to invade Czechoslovakia, and then admitting, once the Nazis invade Czechoslovakia, that they invaded Czechoslovakia. Quite clearly this means you are, deep down, a good fellow who definitely isn't obfuscating in service of a fascist state. Or a useful idiot, if you feel generous about his motives.
Why are you so combative about this? I read three articles and in not one did he say anything overt (he can't if he wants to live, and he can't leave to somewhere where he can speak openly) or use language at all equivalent to a "CIA psyop". Let's just leave this conversation here. You obviously loathe a person I respect a great deal and this isn't going anywhere good.
Why are you so combative about this? I read three articles and in not one did he say anything overt
Except for the part where he was denying Russia's imminent intent to invade Ukraine. Funny that when he's defending Russia he can be overt, but when criticizing it, he can't. But yes, I'm sure he's a very heroic man with great principles. Definitely not a libertarian dipshit with the usual conflicting opinions depending on whether the administration is seen as liberal or not. He called for whistleblowers to be killed, and then became one.
...... Okay, but you're still wrong. People have horrible political views and say stupid shit in their early twenties. And when they live in authoritarian countries they'd rather not live in, they can't criticize their governments. Jesus fucking Christ.
People have horrible political views and say stupid shit in their early twenties.
Oh, okay, so if I brought proof that he was still a libertarian dipshit now, you'd believe me? Or is it "He was a libertarian dipshit then, but now he's just saying the same things they are"?
And when they live in authoritarian countries they’d rather not live in,
When they flee to authoritarian countries with countless other options on the table, you mean.
they can’t criticize their governments.
Oh, okay, so risking punishment in the US was fine, but risking punishment in Russia is too far for him. Very convenient level of bravery, the perfect medium. There are ordinary Russians even now who continue to openly criticize the government, but I guess Snowden just isn't as brave as them. Very very curious level of bravery.
...you just reposted the quote I gave you implying he doesn't support that war and wishes he could actually say it more bluntly. And the first link I mostly read and found nothing like what you wrote about it being a "psyop".
Fleeing life in prison or execution in a hurry doesn't determine one's principles. I find that a weird claim.
I will look at the other links but so far this has been...disappointing.
Snowden essentially sacrificed his freedom to show that the US government is spying on its citizens. If anything were to imply principles, that would be it.
…you just reposted the quote I gave you implying he doesn’t support that war and wishes he could actually say it more bluntly.
No, I highlighted the part of your quote in which he implied that the war was not imminent and that anyone who 'understands the conflict' at a time when America was warning of the oncoming invasion, would understand that Russia had no desire to invade Ukraine as a means of resolution of the ongoing political dispute.
From one of my other links
"So... if nobody shows up for the invasion Biden scheduled for tomorrow morning at 3 a.m., I'm not saying your journalistic credibility was instrumentalized as part of one of those disinformation campaigns you like to write about, but you should at least consider the possibility," the whistleblower said.
Fleeing life in prison or execution in a hurry doesn’t determine one’s principles. I find that a weird claim.
So if I expose, say, Britain's wrongdoings in World War 2, and flee to Nazi Germany, do I have:
A. Principles
B. No Principles
Cowardice is not a principle.
Of course, that assumes a choice between two countries, as stated before, large swathes of the world don't have extradition treaties with the US, yet he just happened to choose (with the help of Assange) the fascist state.
Very curious.
Snowden essentially sacrificed his freedom to show that the US government is spying on its citizens. If anything were to imply principles, that would be it.
"He did something I like, so he has principles"
He pissed off to a cushy position in Russia where he gets constant asspats from the terminally online while lending credibility to a fascist regime. Principles are not high on his list of priorities, quite apparently.
You're really going to compare this Nazi Germany..? Yikes.
I have read and agreed with many things you've written but you're just wrong about this one. Doesn't seem you're open to challenging your view though, so that's fine.
You’re really going to compare this Nazi Germany…? Yikes.
... you're really going to say modern Russia, a brutal totalitarian state, invading a neighboring sovereign state unprovoked and performing genocide isn't comparable to Nazi Germany?
... really?
I think you become nazi germany when you invade multiple countries, have a master-race ideology and lock people into concentration camps. Russia ain't anywhere near Nazi Germany yet.
Chechnya (twice), Georgia (twice), Ukraine (twice or three times, depending on how you count it).
How much more do you want? Are we only allowing post-1939 Nazi Germany? Are we going to have to wait for Poland to be invaded and another Katyn Massacre, since Ukrainian genocide isn't enough to call them Nazis?
I have read and agreed with many things you've written
When I wrote this, I was hoping it would make you realize I'm not your enemy, that we could have a better conversation. I wish I'd been right.
The war started in 2014, he went to Russia in 2013 and obviously hasn't been in a position to leave. Hate me if you want but you're just wrong about this.
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