How dependent is France on Niger's uranium?
How dependent is France on Niger's uranium?
The military coup in Niger has raised concerns about uranium mining in the country by the French group Orano, and the consequences for France's energy independence.
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@Pampa @AlexisFR @Wirrvogel @Ardubal @Sodis
So
One #nuclear power station will buy about a million #electric cars. Most #EVs have a 300km range but most days go <30km.
So the mean available #energy capacity of all these cars would run the #UK for 24 hours using #V2G (Vehicle to grid)
This could be a massive #car share scheme with a couple of EVs on every street
All the energy could come from #wind or #solar and the #battery fills the gaps when there is no wind
@MattMastodon @Pampa @AlexisFR @Wirrvogel @Sodis
A few points to factor in:
- A nuclear power station has a much longer lifetime than batteries, solar panels, and wind turbines.
- You need not only the batteries, but also the panels/turbines to fill them.
- Conversion and storage losses are significant. Attached is a rough overview for Hโ.
- Transmission infrastructure costs to/from individual cars are significant.
- 24 h is not enough by far to balance out usual fluctuations.
@Ardubal @Pampa @AlexisFR @Wirrvogel @Sodis
Thanks for this. You have raised many interesting points and are obviously very knowledgeable.
I think #H2 may also be a read herring also. At the moment the cost of green hydrogen is so much higher than blue hydrogen, the cynic in me is wondering if this is just an excuse to rebrand fossil fuels
If my calculations about battery tech are correct we will have lots of #batteries very soon.
More than we would need for a few days
Very soon
@MattMastodon @Ardubal @Pampa @AlexisFR @Wirrvogel @Sodis
Batteries are great for short term storage (Hours to Days), but the further you are from the equator, the more you need seasonal storage.
Hydrogen possibly fits part of that, if it is produced by electrolysis when wind / solar are in surplus.
Problems are:
how to store it, it leaks through most storage containers, requires vast amounts of energy to liquify and
The round trip from Electricity via H2 to Electricity is very inefficient.@MattMastodon @Ardubal @Pampa @AlexisFR @Wirrvogel @Sodis
A thought,
I wouldn't completely write methane, LPG , or any other petrochemical, off yet, as a seasonal storage medium.They are a lot easier to store and transport than H2.
They can be produced from green H2 + captured CO2https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methanation
We have a lot of existing infrastructure which can use them.
That is of course If we can produce enough surplus Solar / Wind to make them.
https://www.power-technology.com/features/eth-zurich-fuel-air-and-sunlight/
@BrianSmith950 @Ardubal @Pampa @AlexisFR @Wirrvogel @Sodis
Interesting bit of chemistry. A liquid fuel made from #hydrogen would be very useful.
If green hydrogen was practical this would be interesting. At the moment it looks like green hydrogen is ridiculously more expensive than hydrogen made from fossil fuels.
So the temptation for companies would be to use dirty hydrogen...
@MattMastodon @BrianSmith950 @Ardubal @Pampa @AlexisFR @Wirrvogel @Sodis There seems to be a lot of uncertainty around the cost of green hydrogen. The first three Google links differ wildly on it.
Natural gas has certainly increased the cost of grey hydrogen lately.
If the problem is the cost of electricity, that's easily solved by producing mainly when there's a surplus of green electricity. However, if the cost is the capital outlay, that's harder. Which is it?
Of course, we can and must require by law that all new capacity be green. Current incentives also include blue, but there is more green hydrogen actually being built.
@MattMastodon @BrianSmith950 @Ardubal @Pampa @AlexisFR @Wirrvogel @Sodis The problem with using it for long term electricity storage is leaks, of course. It's a weak greenhouse gas (sort of).
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jun/17/pollutionwatch-hydrogen-power-climate-leaks
@MattMastodon @BrianSmith950 @Ardubal @Pampa @AlexisFR @Wirrvogel @Sodis IIRC most studies show that long term storage is only a few percent of total energy, certainly well under 10%. So it is a viable option - if you can get past leaks, and other problems (e.g. the temptation to burn it, producing NOx pollution). And can store vast amounts of energy relatively cheaply.
Nuclear is of course a viable option. There are a few others e.g. iron-air batteries, or just building a lot more renewables than we need. Long range interconnectors help. Lithium is only helpful for short to medium term storage.
Re synthetic fuels, so far extremely expensive and limited scale. Might possibly be used for aviation in the long run (but it's easier just to fly less, and we still need a reliable, safe solution to the contrails problem). Maybe shipping too (possibly as ammonia).
@MattMastodon @BrianSmith950 @Ardubal @Pampa @AlexisFR @Wirrvogel @Sodis Here's a study from a while back about how much storage is actually needed, using the example of Australia. You can get to ~98% with relatively little storage. For the remaining 2%, you need to think about more difficult options - demand side measures, nuclear, long term storage, etc.
@matthewtoad43 @BrianSmith950 @Ardubal @Pampa @AlexisFR @Wirrvogel @Sodis
In terms of filling in the gaps in #energy production we could do some fun maths. Imagine massive #renewable overcapacity and see what storage we need.
Just move the yellow and green lines up x3. This is a typical summer week but we could also look at winter months (less #solar more #wind?)
@matthewtoad43 @BrianSmith950 @Ardubal @Pampa @AlexisFR @Wirrvogel @Sodis
And hydrogen atoms are very leaky, annoying little things
@matthewtoad43 @BrianSmith950 @Ardubal @Pampa @AlexisFR @Wirrvogel @Sodis
I'd love to see a viable business model for making green hydrogen.
the cynic in me is wondering if this is just an excuse to rebrand fossil fuels
That's exactly what it is. Hydrogen power plants are just trojan horses for methane. Since they can burn one as well as the other, but CH4 is much more economically convenient.
@Ardubal @Pampa @AlexisFR @Wirrvogel @Sodis
What do you think of this?
"Most recently, state-runย Enovaย awarded EUR 61 million for fiveย green hydrogen production plants, referred to as hubs, along the Norwegian coastline from north to south. The hubs will be an essential part of #Norwayโs clean hydrogen infrastructure and connect Norwegian players with theย #EU #hydrogen valleysย emerging in #Europe"
https://businessnorway.com/articles/norway-invests-big-realise-clean-hydrogen-future
@MattMastodon @Pampa @AlexisFR @Wirrvogel @Sodis
Without klicking anything, 61 million โฌ is practically nothing, so I do not expect this to be a big, impactful project. It might be a nice little extra income from surplus hydro power (Norway is almost completely running on hydro).
Then looking into the links, this supports just a small fleet of up to 40 ships. Which is good.
I think it can be a good way for this niche, and it might be one little thing less to worry about.
@Ardubal @Pampa @AlexisFR @Wirrvogel @Sodis
Shipping is a massive issue in terms of CO2. What I didn't appreciate is how many ships are used for short journeys.
The Damen ship looks ideal for public transport. Siemens seem to have a number of solutions. I know P&O have bought an electric ferry (Chinese) for UK to France route.
I guess the problem is longer journeys.
Maybe we need to just stop buying stuff from the other side of the planet.
https://www.siemens-energy.com/global/en/offerings/references/electric-ferries.html
@MattMastodon @Pampa @AlexisFR @Wirrvogel @Sodis
Yes, shipping in general, especially long-distance, is a huge issue. But it is only solvable through economics. A solution must be at least as effective and efficient (from a business perspective) as the current dirty oil burning, /and/ significantly better at something to overcome inertia.
My bet would be #nuclear power for that: already being done for decades (mostly military though), and the environment seems ideal (no cooling issues).
@Ardubal @Pampa @AlexisFR @Wirrvogel @Sodis
Forgive me if I'm not surprised by that suggestion. ๐
But having floating nuclear power stations might not be a bad idea given most of our present one are near sea level and...