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  • It's a great general policy to have, but there are exceptions. NordVPN and ExpressVPN are both great VPN services, and Nebula has been absolutely fantastic.

    • Nebula is a creater owned abs controlled coop isn't it? Way different beast.

      • Yeah, more or less.

        But that's sort of the point, isn't it? Just because something's being advertised in a lot of places, doesn't necessarily mean it's a bad deal.

    • Yeah, but the creators advertising Nebula also make the content, and there's definitely VPN providers I distrust less than those two.

      • and there’s definitely VPN providers I distrust less than those two

        I find that a weird way to phrase it. Both Nord and Express are perfectly good. So is PIA, and probably more besides, but I didn't mention others because those are the two I've frequently seen advertised. Both Nord and Express have passed security audits with flying colours, and Express even had a case where their servers were seized but the seizure was unable to be of any value to the authorities, because their claims of not keeping logs were true.

        • I am generally distrustful of anyone who takes money to hide potentially illegal activities. I don't think they shouldn't ever be used, but they do have the potential to be a massive weak point, and the way they're set up to avoid censorship laws also means you can't really hold them to account, should something go wrong. Ever tried sueing anyone in Panama?

          • I'm not sure I buy this logic. It smacks of "if you haven't got anything to hide, you don't have anything to worry about" reasoning, to me. There are numerous reasons to use a VPN. For most people, that's circumventing region blocks. Which is not illegal activity, though it may be against a company's terms of service. For others, it's to hide behaviour from snooping ISPs or—worse—governments, especially surrounding sensitive topics like GSM status, especially for people in less LGBTI+-friendly countries.

            And yeah, some people will do things that are actually illegal. Copyright infringement is probably the most popular, which I think most people on here would probably agree is not a major crime. But some smaller amount will use the privacy enabled by a VPN to do more severe crimes. I don't know how you prevent that without limiting the privacy rights of the much larger number of users.

            • I'm not saying they aren't providing a valuable service to many people. They are to me. But they also have the potential to cause great harm to their users, and are very hard to hold to account, should they ever do that. So I try finding the one I distrust least, and use that.

              I don't really see the parallels to 'nothing to hide'. It's just a bit of, in my eyes not entirely unjustified, paranoia.

              • they also have the potential to cause great harm to their users

                What harm is that?

                The only harm I can see is either:

                (a) by associating their users with those who use VPNs to do illegal things. Which is a nonsense association and shouldn't be given any weight, or

                (b) if they do keep logs and turn those over to authorities. Which is why companies that have been audited and shown not to collect logs, or, even better, companies that have been tested in court and unable to comply with requests for information, are the VPN providers that should be preferred.

                • The second. It's unlikely, but not impossible, for a vpn provider to be compelled to keep logs, either selectively or for everything.

        • Can't remember the specefics, but Express used to be good. Something happened a few years ago and people stopped recommending them. But anything I see in an ad or sponsor can fuck right off. I refuse to use it unless some very reliable source backs up the claims.

    • When I was shopping for a VPN I skipped those two specifically because they advertised on most podcasts I listened to (I know they are good now but that made me skeptic back then)

    • I tried Nord VPN and realized three things: 1: The "limited time specials" they boast are completely misleading. You pay more per month than what they make it sound like in their sponsored messages. 2: They try to automatically renew your subscription and charge your credit card for a significantly higher price with the hope that you wouldn't notice. 3: Unsubscribing is made to be a frustrating pain in the ass. You have to talk to their sales representatives and they will make you argue for it. And then you'll have to do it all over again because even though they said they cancelled your subscription it won't be because " technical problems".

      VPNs rely entirely on trust and Nord has proven to be completely untrustworthy.

      I use Mullvad now and it uses none of those deceiving tactics to lock you into an expensive contact. It also goes long ways to keep you anonymous and has periodic audits to prove they don't collect your data.

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