You're viewing part of a thread.
No. Black children get shot in the face for ringing door bells because of right-wing fear mongering and deeply entrenched bigotry that exists whether or not minorities arm themselves. You can make the case that bi_tux isn't making anything better and is possibly making it worse but saying they are the cause is a disgusting lie that takes the blame off those that truly deserve it.
So you openly admit that some people are incapable of controlling their emotions and that they can be manipulated into murdering vulnerable people including children... But they still get your big rubber stamp of approval to buy all the semi-automatic weapons they want?
If you're disgusted by the idea of "taking the blame off those that truly deserve it", then your own behaviour should sicken you.
Most gun owners just try and pretend that responsibility begins and ends with the shooter and that their own words, actions and votes had nothing to do with it. You however, just lean right into open hypocrisy.
You've got no problem casting the blame wider. Your post opened with the idea that it was "right-wing fear mongering" to blame for gun violence against minorities. Fox News to blame? Completely reasonable!
But blaming the "responsible gun owners" whose unsecured firearms arm thousands of criminals and suicidal teenagers? A gun-lobby that doubled their donations to Republicans to $16 million a year following Sandy Hook? People spreading bullshit hero fantasies online?
That's apparently disgusting.
You made up a lot of stuff there. You are grasping because you don't want to own your shameful behavior. Base your comments on what I actually said and on reality.
I based my comment on exactly what you said. I'm not going to fall for your awkward emotional manipulation, so save it for your family.
No you made up my big rubber stamp and all that. You tried to lay the blame for black children being shot in the face on minorities having guns. You can bring up whatever other topics you want but it doesn't change that you said something really shitty and that I called you on it. Anything else is your addition and distraction.
No you made up my big rubber stamp and all that.
Well don't be coy big boy! Tell us what guns you own, who you vote for, what gun control policies you support and how they would reduce the insane, normalised gun violence in America.
You tried to lay the blame for black children being shot in the face on minorities having guns.
Love the fan remix of my posts but unfortunately the things I actually said are all still there for people to read.
I made it completely clear that I oppose private gun ownership in its current form for all Americans, including the old white racist who shot a black child in the face.
If you want to play that deeply stupid game, I'm happy to join in. For example, your comment didn't explicitly blame the shooter, only "right wing fear mongering", so I'm going to wildly extrapolate that you think the shooter was the real victim. What a terrible person you are for saying that!
But personally, I don't need to awkwardly fabricate a villain because I have actual villains to work with.
So, what I did say is that racists love an excuse to kill minorities and those minorities having guns is the only one they'll ever need. Do you want to argue this doesn't ever happen? Because that's going to be a hard sell.
But we could lower the bar further for you if you'd like. Do you want to argue that America is a safer place for minorities than comparable countries, because of widespread, permissive gun ownership?
I'm going to guess you don't actually want to engage in any of those topics though, you just want to keep manipulating people.
Because none of your pro-gun promises have come true.
You work on a farm or something? Cause you love straw men.
You told bi_tux that he is not a hero, that he is the reason black children get shot in the face for ringing door bells. That is there for everyone to read. You told him that because he said he was a minority that armed himself. Because old racist white men will kill minorities if they are armed or not. Because the cause of that violence isn't minorities or bi_tux having guns.
I already said that any other topics you add are distractions. Own the shitty thing you said, apologize to bi_tux, and ask me in a civil way to discuss one or two of the gish gallop topics you've run through and then we can talk about them. You won't though.
You told him that because he said he was a minority that armed himself
Oh I get it now, you're trying to do the whole "gun control is racist" thing. It took me a while because I was addressing bi_tux as a gun owner and pusher of pro-gun misinformation, not as a token minority the gun lobby can use as a human shield for their profits.
ask me in a civil way to discuss one or two of the gish gallop topics you've run through and then we can talk about them. You won't though.
Of course I won't. Why would I grovel and beg you to repeat the same talking points we've all heard 1000 times?
The pro-gun crowd have spent 20 years insisting the conversation only happens on their terms and the laws only change with their approval and where has it gotten us?
Mass shootings are more common than ever. Children are blowing their own brains out in record numbers. The political power of the racists, homophobes and domestic abusers swells with each day as authoritarians pander to the only thing they care about: themselves.
American gun laws have protected nothing except profits. None of your promises have come true and you've made zero progress on keeping guns out of the hands of people who shouldn't have them.
So who cares what you think? Why waste time "debating" you? We can just take your guns and if you want to die in a hail of bullets for them, go right ahead.
As far as I'm concerned, that's just the pro-gun crowd finally suffering the consequences of their actions, rather than forcing innocent people to.
You are still imagining that I'm the straw man pro gun guy that you desperately wish I was.
Bi_tux said he needed a gun to protect himself against armed racists and you said he was the cause of black children being shot. You said something stupid and disgusting there. There is no other angle. It's not a disguise for some other talking point.
Minorities having guns is not the cause of black children getting shot in the face for ringing door bells. It may make for a convenient excuse. It might make an already existing problem worse. But it is not the cause. The cause of that violence is right wing fear mongering and deep seated racism.
You are not as clever, insightful, or enlightened as you think you are. You keep trying to divert to other topics. Now go on and gish some more.
If you think acting civilly is grovelling and begging then that tells a lot about you.
You are still imagining that I'm the straw man pro gun guy that you desperately wish I was.
I hate to break it to you, but nobody is going to sit down and learn every nuance of your political views before criticising them. If you talk like a straw man pro gun guy, I'm going to treat you like a straw man pro gun guy.
Bi_tux said he needed a gun to protect himself against armed racists and you said he was the cause of black children being shot.
There you go again, filtering my comment through your lens of "he's a minority first" because that makes him useful to you -- even if I clarified that's not what I said nor meant.
Would you be acting like this if he wasn't a minority? Of course not.
Minorities having guns is not the cause of black children getting shot in the face for ringing door bells.
Sure whatever. Go off. I've repeatedly clarified what I meant but it falls on deaf ears because you don't want to understand, you want to create a villain out of someone for not having a hard on for guns.
And oh look, yet another person has grabbed their legal gun, painted a swastika on it and tried to kill as many black people as they could.
Luckily for the next one, we have paragons of morality like you working hard to ensure people like that'll always have guns by telling vulnerable people "these gun laws are actually for you".
You don't have to know every nuance about my political views but you should probably not make up that I'm more pro gun than Ted Nugent. Do I get to make up your unstated political views?
If bi_tux wasn't a minority then he probably wouldn't have posted about needing a gun to protect against racist in white robes. He set the context that he is a minority. What nonsense are you talking about here? Do you even buy what you are saying?
Do you think that the Jacksonville shooter is something that supports your case? Cause like bi_tux asked you, how did those victims not having guns convince the violent racist not to kill them?
You haven't clarified much of anything. Maybe if you haven't tried to cram in so many tangents you could have done better.
You very much have a straw man that you wanted to rail against since you started posting in this thread. Don't reach so hard. There are plenty of those guys actually out there.
Civility could still use a bit of polishing up.
Do I get to make up your unstated political views?
Well you have, repeatedly, so I guess the answer is "yes".
He set the context that he is a minority.
He also set the context that he's a gun owner but surprise surprise, your own logic is dismissed the moment it comes from someone else's mouth.
Cause like bi_tux asked you, how did those victims not having guns convince the violent racist not to kill them?
They were killed by a legal gun owner who didn't give a shit if they had guns or not, he just opened fire on them.
You haven't clarified much of anything
Sure I have, you just ignore it because if you interpreted my comment as written and intended, you'd have to apologise.
You very much have a straw man that you wanted to rail against
Nope, just generic gun owners pushing generic gun owner talking points and making generic gun owner promises that get people killed.
Civility could still use a bit of polishing up.
How about the civility of explaining how you would change gun laws to prevent more of these mass shootings?
Children get mutilated beyond recognition and what does the pro-gun crowd do? Rush to social media to attack and dogpile anyone demanding change.
They've had 20 years of civility so unless you're going to start contributing and supporting actual solutions, you can stick your civility sideways up your piss hole.
You supporting gun ownership means you support it for the people who want minorities murdered. You're supporting things that make your life more dangerous, not less.
Even tho they never said, that they support gun ownership. No one said that they support no gun controll.
Gun control for who, and in what circumstances? How would that be better than simply banning them?
Gun control for who
Minors and known terrorists for example.
and in what circumstances?
Things that should be obvios like don't give your kids guns, or don't randomly start shooting in public.
Ofc it would be better than a complete gun ban. And I hate to say this, but as long as we have a goverment it's the goverment's job to make gun policies.
Where did I say I supported gun ownership? Do I get to make things up about you too?
It's pretty clear from your comments that you do support it. Why are you trying to hide that now?
I'm all for massive gun control reform. I'm also all for minorities being allowed to arm themselves since they are being hunted down by white supremacists just for going to the store. I'm for calling out assholes that tell minorities that they are the reason black kids get shot in the face.
I'm for calling out assholes that tell minorities that they are the reason black kids get shot in the face.
That's a very disingenuous way of casting the argument. It has nothing to do with minorities, only with gun owners and supporters of gun ownership in general, regardless of race.
No it's not disingenuous. Bi_tux is a minority. Agitator told him that he's the reason black kids get shot in the face. Bi_tux needs a gun in response to the hostility and violence of bigots. Ignoring bi_tux's minority status and original statement because it's inconvenient is kinda disingenuous though.
Bi_tux (or any other minorities) having guns or not isn't the cause of bigots shooting black kids in the face for ringing a doorbell.