Who needs cops anyway?
Who needs cops anyway?
102 comments
-
Communities organizing themselves into squads to handle criminals and undesirables is also how we ended up with the KKK. Also the kinds of people who volunteer for unpaid security work tend to be pretty conservative in my experience.
-
a) isn't "the police" just a wider definition of "a community organizing itself"
b) half the police are in the fucking klan anyway lol
-
The police is supposed to be a standardized rules based version of this, where the whole force is subject to law and can be held accountable, because chances are that unless you're lucky or able to move, you'll have a less than ideal local community.
It's not exactly unusual for people to be either lazy or unethical.
You're almost lucky if they just reject your efforts to organize, the guys in your community could easily do like crooked cops and repurpose the group to do crimes like harassment, theft, extortion, assault, kidnapping, rape and murder together. Of course the first ones being more likely.
Some of you might prefer the targets they pick, though. Like beating a racist Asian grocer, threatening a woman 10 blocks away who cheated on one of the guys, and maybe kidnap and sodomize some dweeb none of you liked since high school. Shit like that.
American police probably has too many issues to be reformed without being completely rebuilt with fresh hires across the board and making new rules and procedures. All "cops" should be fired, all "cop" culture must be cleaned out and left to rot in shitty bars where old gangster cops will inevitably gather in the aftermath, where an actual new and accountable police force will likely arrest them and put them in prison for whatever fucked up shit they've just done.
-
Yes exactly, "Policing activity" will happen one way or another. It's the regulation, transparency, accountability that is used to weed out bad cops that is needed to make it beneficial to society.
-
-
-
yeah, it was only when we added in paychecks they became police.
-
If a society is a the point of calling for a substitute to police, then you are fucked. at that point you are just gonna build two armed factions which are illegitimate in each others eyes. thats how you get a civil war.
-
Modern police forces are what we decided to do with the slave catchers and mercenaries for hire that would have started gangs if the government didn't put them to work.
-
Take the word overseer, like a sample
Repeat it very quickly in a crew, for example
Overseer, overseer, overseer, overseer
Officer, officer, officer, officer Yeah, officer from overseer
You need a little clarity? Check the similarity
The overseer rode around the plantation
The officer is off, patrollin' all the nation
The overseer could stop you, "what you're doin'?"
The officer will pull you over just when he's pursuin'
The overseer had the right to get ill
And if you fought back, the overseer had the right to kill
The officer has the right to arrest
And if you fight back they put a hole in your chest (woop)
They both ride horses
After 400 years, I've got no choices
-
-
As a minimum, how about frequent rotation and a sortition + selection system to staff the squads?
Imaginary example:
Two "cops" are needed for a term of 90 days (side note: in this hypothetical society, it could be that a cop is not a first responder but an investigator - first responders may be selected by proximity to the event and called up using some automated emergency messaging system). An investigator is allowed to request expert assistance from outside their department and often does.
At first, 10 candidates are sortitioned at random. Out of them, 3 refuse the job for various reasons, 7 go through instruction and pass evaluation. Out of them, 3 either step out during training or fail exams, 4 complete exams. Among them, another round of sortition occurs: 2 are selected at random, while 2 are paid compensation for study and assigned to reserve. If lottery chooses them again, they won't need to pass exams.
This might be possible to enhance with other tricks. If feedback shows that cops cannot be impartial near their home, then they don't work near their home. If however, feedback shows that they perform best near their home, then the opposite way.
The main goals this would aim to achieve:
- ensure that corruption will not start
- ensure that investigation is not biased (or that chances exist of bias being quickly exposed)
- ensure that offices cannot be given by people in power to whom they prefer
- ensure that competence is valued and unqualified bozos won't be appointed
-
So this doesn’t work for a variety if reasons. The biggest being stability. Investigator is a technical and important job, you need a certain level of IQ and EQ to perform the role effectively. No one with a good combination of intelligence and know how would wait around for 90 days for their job to reopen. You would immediately lose them to the private sector. Police retain people based on job security and home life stability, especially as you climb the ranks. Second, this does not account for when no qualified candidates are found. Police departments are often understaffed now for these roles. There’s also no greater command structure. If higher rolls have a similar system you are even less likely to find qualified candidates. It will eventually debase into the same two peopke running everytime and just becoming the full time investigators anyway. Something similar will happen with your consultants. Either every group will need the same small pool or they will just eventually be the go to corruptible person. On top of all this you still need beat cops or patrol officers, which despite their current reputation in America do provide valuable services to the community. A first responder sitting at home doesn’t help anyone one when seconds matter most.
-
You can't draw blood from a stone. If community self-organizing gets you the KKK, that community was fucked to begin with. The USA has always been extremely racist, it's a matter of to what extent we give the racist police a legal monopoly on violence and place them above the law. At least when they wear ghost outfits you don't have an illusion of reasonability.
Also note that the KKK never aimed to replace the police for the community the KKK came from, but rather to build upon police oppression of people outside the community. The two situations are not analogous, and if KKK members had to police their own community they would be much more gentle and constructive in their methods.
-
So when it’s not state sponsored, it only sometimes turns into racists oppressing poor people and minorities, and you consider this worse than the current alternative?
-
Are you fucking comparing the goddamned KKK with the Black Panthers?
No. Abso-fucking-lutely NO! Do better.
-
They aren't, they are pointing out self-organizing groups like this can be made into something good as well as something bad. That's kind of the whole point of government and regulations, to try to prevent that. Obviously that has failed in most cases, but it doesn't mean the goal itself is pointless.
Here's a more recent example. These groups can often end up exploiting the things they claim to protect. That's just humans being human.
-
gasp you mean cops can be cops without being cops!!!???
-
Please don't assign the kindest possible interpretation to his words. It's pretty obvious what he meant to do.
-
You're losing a discussion to someone named Snot Flickerman. L
-
He got ratiod by redditors but he's not wrong
Community organization is objectively better than our current approach to police which is to act as an occupying military force.
-
Police is community (government) organized.
The only difference is size.
-
Yes, it's better for police to actually be accountable to their neighbors than a top down fedual structure of law enforcement.
-
-
-
-
-
-
Works both ways unfortunately.
-
Do better.
Improve the world, start with yourself. You muppet.
-
-
Make me.
-
KKK will
-
-
-
Lol...
You fookin wat?
-
Like they say, you can’t fix stupid.
-
-
-
-
102 comments