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Can you give one example of a long-term, large scale, non-hierarchical system in human society?
Anarchism. We used it for most of human history, hierarchical societies are only 6k years old. The human species has existed for 200k years.
Are you joking? Ever heard of tribalism? Even monkeys use it.
Yes, because everyone everywhere for all of history has followed the exact same formula for organizing and defending their tribes.
Anarchism. We used it for most of human history
Total horseshit.
Name one society based on Anarchism
Instead of just one, here's a whole Wikipedia article on the subject.
Those do not meet the criteria of what was asked.
Examples of intentional anarchical societies don't meet the criteria of anarchical societies?
This was the actual original request
Can you give one example of a long-term, large scale, non-hierarchical system in human society?
Nothing on that page is an example of this
I spent 5 seconds during my morning routine to look this up. Would you rather I spend 3 hours writing a dissertation on all of the indigenous communities that have existed since prehistory that are structured in an egalitarian and anarchical way? You're also allowed to look this shit up. I recommend Andrewism on youtube, he pulls a lot of examples from anarchical indigenous societies
I'd rather you not post dumb pro-anarchy takes. That requires 0 seconds out of your day.
Got it, we're not allowed to question bourgeois democracy or capitalism. Good to know. I've officially stopped being an anarcho-syndicalist because you don't like it.
I don't care what you do because no percent of the population is suddenly going to rise up in an anarchist wave, ever
Go start a commune. I don't care. I genuinely wish you and your (149 or fewer, ideally) friends well.
And where are they today?
Can you give one example of a long-term, large scale, non-hierarchical system in human society?
Long-term =/= Permanent
Humans have existed much, MUCH longer than our current structure of civilization.
So that is a no?
Cheers.
Glad you can admit it.
Polynesians strike me as a good example. Those motherfuckers were the first to sail around the world, thousands of years before Columbus.
The title of the article actually disproves your assertion.
Are you being edgy or serious? Anybody who's not actually a teenager is smart enough to realize that anarchy could never work and not having any laws would predictably end very poorly...
Teenage anarchism ideologies basically boild down to "So I won't have to go to school and read anymore". If they actually knew what anarchism is, they'd be surprised to learn that there is a lot of reading to do in order to fully understand an anarchist society or one of its many sub-structures.
Anarchy doesn't necessarily mean chaos without structure, as many believe. However, chaos without structure is one of the variants of anarchy.
Anarchy literally means feudalism within a generation
anarchism does not have to mean absence of law
But it does though!!! that is the dictionary definition of the word
sorry but you're wrong, it's a lot more complicated than that
Anarchism means without rulers, not without rules
Who enforces the rules?
Most laws that exist serve to protect private property. An anarchist society wouldn't have private property, so most laws that exist would be to punish transgressions between individuals. Political anarchy is not "do whatever you want, whenever you want, no exceptions". It's a direct democracy without hierarchy, with elected stewards to manage the shared property in a library economy.
you're dreaming kid
Tell us you're not listening without saying you're not really listening
Using this format (tell me x without telling me x) confirms that you are in your teens
Yep, not actually listening at all
why would I listen to you, moron
Lol your entire argument deflated when he responded actually knowing what he's talking about
Neither of you know what you're talking about
Anarchism is not the absence of law.
So why don't YOU take your teenager education and learn more?
Cause i'm already doing great in this capitalist system. If you'd grow up and stop complaining, maybe you could, too.
It's almost like having a job that pays okay is still A) Not making me happy and B) contributing to the Earth's destruction.
I love working the majority of my waking life just to scrape by, what a wonderful system where the only escape is being born privileged or working yourself even closer to death and taking advantage of other people to start a business
Yeah rolling over on your belly and whining about it is sure to work out for ya
Cry about it you baby
The world might be ending but at least I have expensive things!
Anarchism. We used it for most of human history
Tribes are not anarchies. They have leaders. Put any group of people together and a hierarchy naturally forms. You actually have to work really, really hard to prevent this. That's why anarchies are so unstable and rarely last longer than a few years.
Yeah, I like having electricity, plumbing, and not needing to murder other males to protect my harem too much. We need some sort of society, not the absence of one.
Anarchy is the lack of heirarchy, not the lack of society. Please educate yourself before making an ignorant comment like this.
an·ar·chy /ˈanərkē/ noun
-a state of disorder due to absence or nonrecognition of authority or other controlling systems. -the organization of society on the basis of voluntary cooperation, without political institutions or hierarchical government; anarchism.
Educated enough? Everybody gonna cooperate and no one is going to go Mad-Max robber Baron on essential resources? Everyone going to voluntarily decide to fix potholes and collect garbage?
It's wild that some people here will agree that libertarianism is dumb and wouldn't work, but then turn around and say anarchism is the best system.
Yep. Doesn't work. Ultimately, Anarchism, socialism, communism, libertarianism, democracy are all ideals. A functioning society can't and won't be a 100% ideal system. There are jerks, grifters, thieves and fanatics who will subvert those ideals for personal gain, or simply to harm others. We can work towards the ideal priciples of those social systems, but we will never, and should never reach them.
But we evolved away from it as our societies and needs became more complex. Maybe it worked when we were hunter gatherers living in caves but modern society requires a heriarchy to organise and maintain it.
Hunter-gatherers have hierarchies, too. Don't buy this BS.
Many complex societies were egalitarian eg Cucatenia Trypillia, IVC etc.
We didn’t “evolve” away from egalitarianism because complexity yada yada yada. Hierarchy just won because it’s more oppressive and violent.
Hierarchy just won because it’s more oppressive and violent.
Let's say you're right. How can anarchy win, then?
So… an evil system that puts the majority of people on the bottom to be exploited is ok because it’s more violent and kills all other systems?
I’m not a tactician, or strategist.
I don’t care how it can win. It has to, or we all will die lmao.
Why do we need hierarchy? Are you unable to make decisions?
About all the facets of modern life? Yes. At least, completely informed decisions.
I don't know much about West Nile Virus. If I get West Nile, I need to consult an expert.
Who decides who's an expert? Why should I trust what Jane says and not what Steve says?
To organise and manage. Who's going to set and control healthcare? The economy? Utilities? Infrastructure? Defence?Education? Justice? Social care? I don't have the time nor will to make informed decisions about every single policy or law. I'd imagine the vast majority of people are ere same. We have representatives to make these decisions for us.
All of those "problems" are predicated on the ideas that private ownership of the means of production is necessary, that borders are a natural phenomenon, and that the social ills under capitalism are facts of life experienced by everyone in every era. None of that is true. Why don't you have the time or energy to help organize and be involved with your community? Is it because of work? We've made tremendous strides in automating the means of production, but what has that meant for us? More people unemployed and unable to pay for the necessities in life, while we maintain the 40 hour work week to do the same work in one day as a 100 hour work week in 1900. We don't need to move at this breakneck pace to make someone else billions of dollars.
I agree that common people need to do more organizing, but all that organizing will be a waste of time without a hierarchy. I've seen it happen loads of times. You get a bunch of people together with a lot of passion, but nobody can decide on an agenda or a plan, and all of that energy evaporates and nothing gets accomplished.
Occupy Wall Street
The cops, media, and oligarchs were organized. The protesters, though numerous, were not.
Exactly. They couldn't even decide on "one demand", which was the original impetus.
I don't think any of the things I listed have anything to do with who owns the means of production. They're all public (well maybe not in every country) services. And policy and regulation has to be set for them as time goes on.
Honestly, I don't want to be much involved in my community. It just doesn't interest me, I'd rather spend time with my family or spend time on my hobbies.
I disagree on that, but I don't have the mental health capacity anymore to elaborate.
That's understandable too, and we should have the ability to do so without a pursuit of wages. The coercive nature of work prevents you from enjoying the things you want to enjoy. Personally, I consider the theft of our free time cruelty. I want to have time to see my friends and family that live hours away. I want to work on the apps I started in college. I want to go fishing. I want to be a contributing member of my community. I can't do any of that, because I need to pay for food, rent, electricity, vehicle maintenance, my education loan, and more. A system that forces us to suppress our desires in favor of seeking a wage is unjust, and does far more harm to people as a society than anything an individual could do on their own. I don't want to turn those personal apps into a "side-hustle", I just want to make something in the hopes that at least someone finds it useful and can enjoy it. I want a society that encourages our kindhearted, social, and generous nature, not one that purely emphasizes our greedy side.
Tribalism.