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If Israel is under attack, does not have the resources to take these buildings with less collateral damage, and the international community will not send any military aid besides fucking bombs, then what is Israel supposed to do?
Answer: And write this down.
NOTHING.
Then give Palestinians equal rights, jobs, full citizenship. Treat them as brothers. Equals. Treating people like humans isn’t difficult if you try.
Feel free to reference this answer the next time you have that question.
Cute like a kid going "why can't everyone just be friends?"
Don't get me wrong, I wish this could work, I wish half of Israel weren't ready to kill all Arabs and vice versa.
But sadly hate blinds, if not most then a lot of people.
It really is that easy. We choose our emotions. I’m not saying people shouldn’t defend themselves. But violence should be the last option, not the first. There can be a world where Jews and Palestinians coexist. But it has to be chosen, not mandated or forced.
Yeah, but a big part of humanity does not see it that way.
Also the video is hilarious XD
This is the most retarded possible take imaginable. Nobody in the region wants that either.
Hamas and their supporters, of which polling shows is a large majority in the strip right now, is openly calling for the murder of Jews.
You wouldn't have peace if you magically granted equal rights to the people who refuse to acknowledge the existence of the country that would be granting them those rights, you'd have millions of dead Jews.
You either don't want to understand that or you just want to see dead Jews.
The thing I hate most about Israel apologists is the way that, for them, history always starts with the latest action against the country, totally ignoring its egregious actions all the way back to when it was founded by genicidal terrorist groups, who then became its official military.
Gee, ya think that maybe the support for Hamas doesn’t stem from its anti-Jewish stance? Maybe there’s something else going on that perhaps the people might be reacting to? Also, who created Hamas?
I think most Israel supporters start the clock in 1948... When 5 Arab Nations attacked them simultaneously. Israel has been under attack ever since, so the claim that it's the past 75 years is utterly bullshit. Even Hamas has said this has nothing to do with the conditions of the strip and is because they want to wipe out Israel entirely.... same thinking as day 1.
Indeed, as always, starting the clock with the blowback, casting Israel as the feckless victim, omitting the Nakba, and everything that happened in 1947 and earlier.
If you're able to learn about the Nakba, then you're more than capable of learning about the hundreds of years of pogroms and attacks on Jews in the region. The list for the town of sfat is interesting.
But nah, ignore the 900,000 Jews forced out of their homes in the region and focus on the 200,000 Arabs. Sounds exactly like what we're seeing all around, the elimination of Jewish history of the region. Good thing the history is documented and ain't going anywhere.
Yes, I can learn that even the events in Sfat/Safed were part of an escalating cycle of recriminations. So as you helpfully point out, meeting violence with violence has been going on for hundreds of years, and has solved exactly nothing. As I have said in a separate comment chain, it will just continue to generate atrocity and pain until one of the sides—neither of which is righteous, let's be clear—decides to take responsibility for its past and starts the slow, complicated process of deescalation.
And if your gut reaction to that truth is, "they would never do that," well, go ahead, turn the crank once more, see how it goes.
Agreed. As long as Arabs hate Jews more than they love their children, this will sadly continue.
Thankfully some Arab Nations like the UAE, have learned this and have normalized relations, creating peace and prosperity for their people. Hopefully the Palestinians learn this lesson quickly, before Hamas sets everything back even farther.
As I expected.
You can tell your Mom you learned something today. Be proud.
Welcome to first grade, and I want you to know that everyone here is your friend, and you should always be nice.
Well, I’m old. And it hasn’t failed me yet. When it does fail me, is when I meet toxic people with negativity. I generally limit time with them.
So even you, my old friend, admit there are some impressively toxic and shitty people out there.
Yes. But I try not to ridicule or look down on them, as many want to do. They are victims of material circumstances. Sometimes they don’t even understand their intentions. I have weaknesses, I acknowledge and live with mine, while others project theirs outward.
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You don't ask the psychopath stranger with a shotgun who installed in your living room to leave politely. Specially as he continuously moves his relatives armed to the teeth into other different rooms of your house and killing your family one by one. Israel started this beef in the XIX century with their Zionists BS. Now the people who were already living there are gagged, and bound in the basement. But we are supposed to feel bad for the psychopath when the hostage kicks and try to defend themselves. Hamas are terrorist monsters. But the IDF hands aren't free of blood. There are people on Israeli media calling for the genocide of all Palestinian people, this is just as bad as anti-semite Nazis during WWII. The fact that people can't see the hypocrisy is part of the problem. Israel could stop the apartheid state today. But they won't, because genocide is the plan, violence is the plan, division and aggression is the plan.
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But that’s not what we’re talking about in this thread.
This level of sociopathic compartmentalization is concerning. It is 100% relevant to what we are talking about.
is like saying the Allied bombers in WWII who killed German civilians working in factories “aren’t free of blood” in comparison with the fucking Nazis.
It is, the US dropped two nuclear bombs over japan after firebombing it for a year and killing million of civilians. They do have blood in their hands, there's no such thing as a righteous or just war. That's the worst legacy of the mythology of the WWII.
You're oversimplifying this shit in your head to get off of the idea of someone killing Muslim people. That's just weird man.
That was a good read/ explanation and funny. Thanks for making me laugh.
That's a lot of whataboutism. You can only pack so much into one argument, see. But constantly invoking WW2 nukes into every argument just shows how limited your logic is.
They do have blood in their hands, there’s no such thing as a righteous or just war.
Lol
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Hamas literally exists because Israel and the Palestinian Authority were brokering a 2 state solution, and Hamas is dedicated to the destruction of Israel. As a response to this movement, Hamas seized power in Gaza and canceled elections forever.
When Israel moved to normalize relations with Saudi Arabia, Hamas attacked in October to try to change public opinion of Saudis against Israel.
You've got your blame precisely backwards.
My answer still stands. If the US took the 4 billion they give to Israel and instead distributed aid to Palestinians, it would dramatically improve their lives and create the material conditions for their society to flourish. Sanction Israel like the world did South Africa to get rid of the apartheid state. The answer is equality and standard of living.
Your problem is framing. If we can only frame solutions through violence, then don’t be surprised when violence continues. If it is framed through the lens of improving the material conditions of the oppressed, it solves the need for violence. Happy, comfortable people don’t resort to violence.
Edit: Something tells me you’re not gonna like my answer, because it doesn’t involve killing Arabs.
Brotha.. Hamas leader's net worth just crossed 5B 😂
Source?
I don't think anyone can safely say how much money they have. This article explains how they get their money, among other things, from funneling charity funds:
Thanks. That money should be seized and given back to the people. Any future aid should be administered with oversight. It can be done.
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That's because the Palestinians were trying to de-Nazify Jordan.
Give them a break!
Totes justified. Sheesh.
You didn’t write the answer down. Just because you don’t like the answer doesn’t mean it’s not the answer. There are many ways to cross a river, but a bridge is still the best option.
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Love and empathy. You should try it. Best high you’ll ever get.
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I do have it. Which is how I know that I should not "love" people who murder innocents.
Then you don’t really have empathy.
WHAT. SHOULD. ISRAEL. DO? Just show some love? Grow the fuck up. Give us some actual solutions besides "nothing and love XOXO 😍❤️💛💚💙💜😘😝😜".
Martin Luther King, Jr. and Ghandi found the answer. It is peace through love. I still highly suggest you write it down.
There is effective love, but chatting about love on the internet without doing anything kinda makes you look naive - and indeed, you likely are.
But if you have real love that can survive and contribute, then do it. Get involved. Learn Arabic, spend time in Palestine, spend time in Israel. Get to know people, and work on healing the underlying emotional scars that boil to the surface like this.
Until then, I may appreciate your love as 'nice', but it's not meaningful like you think it is unless you also back it up with will and power.
It's easy to sit on the sidelines and criticize, which at the very least flirts with being avoidant rather than loving. But if you love, and this is your calling, go do it.
Gandhi’s peace was not non-confrontational. He conducted mass protests, refusal of payment to authorities, and mass exodus from British commerce.
Throwing reference to his name as simply a “love of peace” is ignoring the circumstances and actions that lead to peace. Everyone loves peace. The question is what kind of confrontation you accept to achieve it.
These people are fucking morons. This is unbelievable. WTF. They're the kind of idiot who's supporting bin Laden right now.
Serious answer? It’s never going to get any better until one side or the other decides to de-escalate, and that’s never going to get any easier. The long history of provocations back and forth will never unwind. Israel, being the one in the position of power, also has a greater responsibility to back off of violence. It’s either that, or continue down the path it is on to ethnic cleansing and genocide. It is on track to be one of history’s darkest ironies that the grandchildren of the people who vowed “never again” will be the people responsible for “again.”
Yeah, that’s a hard, bitter pill to swallow, when one’s instinct is for vengeance. But it’s the truth. Another hard truth is that the humans on the other side are humans. Turning the other cheek for once would utterly shock the entire world, and gain Israel immense support and good will, including from large portions of Palestine.
Is it realistic? No, it’ll never happen. But repeating the cycle of violence hasn’t ever worked, so that’s what they should do.
Turning the other cheek means what exactly in this context?
Not smash into Gaza with a wrecking-ball military response, massacring civilians. Reach out to the Palestinian Authority and moderates in Gaza to deal with the Hamas attack as a law enforcement matter. Negotiate for the release of hostages. Ask for support in this approach from the Arab nations with which it had normalized relations; continue the in-progress normalization of relations with several other nations.
The Palestinian Authority in Gaza is Hamas, and they really don't allow moderates to have a say. You'd be asking for them to pretty please just arrest themselves.
They have tried to ask neighboring Arab nations for help, the response has basically been "Fuck the Palestinians, we don't want them". And it's not exactly an unreasonable response. The last time Jordan took in a bunch of Palestinian refugees, the Palestinians killed their king and tried to take over the country. No one trusts them anymore.
No, the Palestinian Authority is the governing body of the West Bank. It was kicked out of Gaza in 2007 after a conflict between the Islamic Hamas organization, and the secular Fatah party. It would certainly have motive to form an alliance to try to help, in order to re-establish its control of Gaza, and a large portion of the Gazan population would welcome it.
The "right of return" by people forced off of their ancestral land which is now within the borders of the State of Israel has been one of the major sticking points in the conflict, with Israel steadfastly refusing it. If it is not willing to let refugees return to their homes in its own country, then how is it fair to ask other countries to accept large numbers of refugees? There are other forms of help besides accepting refugees.
That's easy... if Israel cannot exist without acting like a white supremacist settler-colonialist state, then Israel should cease to exist. No different than Apertheid-era South Africa.
That answers your question, white supremacism apologist.
In the context of your question, the correct thing to do is for Israel to utilize scalpel-accurate precision attacks at Hamas leadership with clandestine highly experienced embedded intelligence agents, careful consideration of civilian casualties, GPS guided munitions dropped from 6th generation command & control stealth aircraft, active camouflage stealth armor with powered mech suits, gundam/metal-gear bipedal tanks, and mind reading AI brain scanners, and trillions of dollars defense budget. Duh! You idiot.
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This bio bomb will disintegrate only the bodies of ruthless terrorists, leaving everyone else okay. Oh, but it’s magic, so you can’t see it if you’re a very smart person.
To be fair, they do have very accurate munitions. They've recently used them to strike many journalists and their families in their homes. Many in Gaza, but also a few in other countries. This has been the deadliest conflict for journalists in decades (because Israel deliberately targets them).
because Israel deliberately targets them
That's literally illegal. Do you have a quote said by an Israeli government or military official that they are deliberately doing this or just spreading misinformation?
Israel definitely does have the resources to go just boots on the ground. They have more troops than Russia initially sent in to Ukraine. They could "safely" secure Gaza block by block if they wanted to.
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Oh, those poor Israelis... the west sends them bombs which Israel just have to drop on the largest concentration camp in human history.
Oh, those poor, poor Israelis.
If someone kicked you out of your home and wouldn't let you walk on the same streets as them, what would you do? Would you cower, or would you fight back any chance you got? What if they bombed your friends and family? What if they denied you jobs? What if they denied you food and water?
What would you do?
As long as Israel exists it will be on stolen land, built on ethnic cleansing. There can never be peace in an apartheid state. No matter how many bombs they drop they will always make more enemies. There can't be any peace on stolen land. So what should they do? Murder forever, escalate? Exterminate everyone in the region and clear it for Israel? What should Israel do if there can be no peace while it exists?
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A lot of the people being killed today are children. Do you believe that the fact that some people carry out monstrous acts justifies killing children and people completely unrelated to those acts? How many children is it worth killing to kill one monster? Can you give me a number?
Let's say you had a magic woodchipper that you could throw babies in to and if you threw enough babies in you would get to instantly kill one terrorist. How many babies would you throw in? Is it 1 to 1? Would you throw in 10? How about kids? If they're like 4 or 5 years old, would you push them in to the chipper to get to kill a terrorist? This is what you're advocating when you're justifying cutting off food and water. It's a horrible and painful death for children who have literally no idea why they're dying and don't even have the capacity to understand.
So what's the number? How many children and babies is it justifiable to murder in order to kill a single terrorist?
How many resources would they need to go in with boots on the ground because it looks like they do have enough resources? (Serious question is it a dollar amount a person amount etc) If say Hamas was in an Israeli hospital and Israel didn't have the resources to go in with boots on the ground would you find it acceptable to bomb the Israeli's hospital? If your answer for one is yes and the other no then you don't value Palestinians lives.
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There's a gaping chasm
"let terrorists do whatever the fuck they want."
and
"genocide it is, then"
Particularly when the more accurate framing would be
"oh no - the terrorist group we backed over the PLO predictably attacked us as we maintained Palestine as an open air concentration camp, spouting genocidal rhetoric - guess we'll have to kill 'em all".
They’ve even been making calls to trusted civilians in the area to evacuate target buildings of civilians. It’s not going to change much, it’s basically “what they can do to avoid collateral without investing actual personnel”, and will probably be forgotten just like America’s fliers to Japanese citizens about an upcoming nuke.
It does basically dress the point that if they feel they HAVE to retaliate, they’re making what little effort they can to restrict it.
Not backing Hamas over the PLO, predictably getting their civilians killed and creating the pretext for the genocide they're now committing would probably be a good start. How about not operating an open air concentration camp that'll radicalise Palestinians against them?
Hamas are terrible, but this is a situation Israel has manufactured - they don't get to cry about i the predicable consequences of their choices now.
To say "this is a situation Israel has manufactured" is a convenient gross oversimplification of the history of the region. Either you know this isn't true and you're just spewing misinformation or you're not informed and speaking confidently.
A full history of the region wouldn't fit in a post. Would you like to add relevant context to attempt to justify the ongoing genocide?
Don't pivot. We aren't talking about genocide. You said this "is a situation Israel has manufactured". If you're going to make bold statements then back them up.
I explained it, and you claimed my explanation was oversimplified without any further detail. Seems you're the one making bold statements without backing them up.
There is an ongoing genocide - why is that not the most important part to you, and why should I care if whatever detail you claim I've missed doesn't justify that genocide?
...or an I correct in thinking you're taking this line because the genocide isn't something you're concerned about?
You want to talk about genocide that's fine. You want to say this is a situation Israel has manufactured: that's an entirely different topic. It's not complicated.
Also, the word genocide gets thrown around very loosely these days I've noticed. When the allies were bombing Germany in WW2 were they committing genocide? Millions of civilians died in the bombing of dreaden. I'm not saying Israel is NOT committing genocide, because a collective argument could be made if you put all the pieces together (blockade, settlements, etc). If by genocide you mean just the occurrence of civilian casualties, then surely you will admit Hamas is also conducting genocide every time one of their rockets kills an Israeli baby. ....Right?
This isn't an explanation of what I oversimplified that would justify the genocide - it's just dithering about the definition of genocide. I linked the UN definition in anticipation of your obviously bad-faith questions designed to diminish and distract from that genocide.
Third and final time: What did I miss in my oversimplification that would justify the genocide Israel is committing against Palestine? You say I've oversimplified, but haven't made any effort whatsoever to correct the record. Why might that be?
You said that "Israel manufactured the situation". It's clear your intention is putting the onus entirely on one side when history shows this is not the case. I'm not going to bother with reiterating the entire history of the region. If we are going to reduce all historic fact to such gross oversimplifications, we might as well say nothing. You may say I'm being pedantic, but your biased messaging is clear. The genocide topic is just a convenient way to sidestep my initial point (even after I conceded the genocide thing) which is why you keep bringing it up. If you can't engage with one point without having to keep pivoting to these other topics then it's clear you are either illiterate or just bad faith.
So there's no material context I've missed in the oversimplification you're claiming I've engaged in (I've asked you many times now), you don't have a point, and you're just being a genocide-defending piece of shit that's too cowardly to own their positions.
I say this with deepest sincerity - fuck you, you utter waste of a human life.
Yooo also from your definition:
The intent is the most difficult element to determine. To constitute genocide, there must be a proven intent on the part of perpetrators to physically destroy a national, ethnical, racial or religious group. Cultural destruction does not suffice, nor does an intention to simply disperse a group. It is this special intent, or dolus specialis, that makes the crime of genocide so unique.
They are committed to completely eliminating this evil from the world, (...) You must remember what Amalek has done to you, says our Holy Bible. And we do remember.
- Netanyahu (translated) 28/10/23
Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass
- 1 Samuel 15:3
One example. Of course his cabinet are less connected with international politics and are more inclined to use direct language.
Genocide or not, why are you defending the Israeli government slaughtering tens of thousands of Palestinian civilians - including huge numbers of children indiscriminately? We certainly don't see Hamas being targeted in the casualty stats.
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I love that you can't engage with any of the points. Just gotta get your catch phrase in.
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Funny, if you remove the "israel" from this comment you can't even tell which side you're talking about.