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If you see his point you should be able to give one example of "preaching" other than the characters existence.
No, if I see his point doesn't mean I agree with his point. I see it. I've been on his side of this discussion before.
It is totally relative, why do you need to be so divisive? I was trying to be understanding with him, I wasn't joining a side. Just saw everyone attacking him and thought it was just a matter of personal preference not rooted in hate.
Do you think there is a series that is too woke or pushy? There's probably someone who disagrees with you if you do, probably a whole community.
Saying that no series is too woke is also an opinion that would get a lot of disagreement.
You see? These are opinions.
To see their point, you would have to think there is at least something to it.
Their, and your, inability to support that point makes it nonsensical to me.
Why do you see their point? What is at least one example of "woke(nees)" or "push(iness)" that makes your see their point? Or do you just agree with them on a visceral level that requires no explanations?
I already told you that seeing someone's point doesn't mean agreeing with their point. Do you disagree with this? If you do, I'm OK with it and we can move on.
To see their point you don't need to agree with it but you do need to think there is some basis for it.
What is the basis for their point that allows you to see it?
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A big part of the community agrees with that opinion.
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I've had that opinion when it comes to other series.
That's enough for me to see their point, even if I don't necessarily agree with it.
Why are you even arguing with me about semantics? You can go and ask him for specifics if that's what you care about.
A lot of people have a lot of stupid/bigoted opinions. Do you see all of their points too?
Your opinions of other shows are irrelevant to weather or not they have a valid point about this show.
That's enough? Someone says something, anything, and you see their point?
This is not semantic at all. I'm asking for one example from Star Trek that allows you to "see the point" of someone that says it's "woke," "pushy," "preachy," or anything else along those lines.
If you're unable to give an example you'll have to forgive people for assuming the reason is the mere existence of the characters that makes them feel that way and that allows you to "see their point."
As I said, I was being understanding with them because I didn't think their opinion was rooted in hate. I felt they really thought that the focus on the wokeness stole the spotlight from the plot.
And no, I wouldn't see their point because I haven't had bigoted or racist opinions before. I sent you a list with 2 points, why are you ignoring the second one?
OK, this is enough. I won't block you because that's immature, but please stop. Go ahead and downvote this, I don't care.
Not ascribing the worst motivations to something is quite different than "seeing their point."
I did address your second point. I said it was irrelevant.
I hope if someone starts saying something awful about you with no basis there aren't people who thoughtlessly "see their point" for no reason.
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