S23 vs Pixel 8?
S23 vs Pixel 8?
Hi everyone,
Currently looking at either a Pixel 8 or a S23 as a replacement for my Zenfone 8 that is slowly becoming a hindrence due to (primarily) the battery. I would replace it, but as it costs a lot to do that here and I have needs for a non-compromised water protection DIY feels like a dangerous option.
So S23 vs Pixel 8, what would you guys recommend assuming I can get either for the same price?
I like the S23 hardware a bit better on paper, but as Pixel phones generally are very flashable my anti-Google sentiments might (ironically) push me there.
I would get a fairphone 5 for the hot-swappable battery etc if they weren't so expensive for what you get, and as Im buying second hand reuse is better for the environment anyways.
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Afaik, they don't use child slavery, use sustainable manufacturing practices, they're highly transparent about their labor practices and sourcing, strongly focused on environmentalism, and making things easy for their customers in terms of reparability and os customization.
I'm sure they're not perfect, but they're blowing away the competition I'm aware of with respect to responsibility, sustainability, trust, respect and service for their customers.
Fairphones run Google's Android operating system. As phone hardware improves, Google updates Android to increase functionality, and these updates render long-life hardware of Fairphones obsolete. Fairphone responds by slowing the frequency of updates on their phones, but certain apps require the latest Android version to run.
Thats not a technical report but still very strange.
In general I couldnt find anything through a quick search, but I remember hearing that Apple pays the workers more than Fairphone.
Oh, I'm definitely getting one of the murena fairphones, I wanted a Linux phone OS forever.
I'd be interested in seeing a source for Apple and fairphone worker wages, that makes zero sense to me, since so much of apples assembly work is done in China, specifically to keep manufacturing costs down.
Maybe because Apple pays more to their US engineers or something? But the children harvesting the minerals and the factory workers working 16-hour shifts in apple factories in China are the ones I'm concerned about.
I much prefer ethically sourced smartphone materials and workers, and as far as I can tell, fair phone is the only smartphone company committed to those sustainable and respectful ideals.
Android is Linux, and every custom Android is just using AOSP (The Android open source project) ans putting some stuff on top, adding apps, thats it.
GrapheneOS is the only project adding substantial hardening, security and privacy improvements.
They will also never do something that doesnt work well. For example they have an internet permission, while LineageOS has a different method that may not be as secure and thus privacy friendly.
Phone companies often use the same manifacturers. No those were about the wages of the workers in the factories in china. Everyone produces in China basically, they are the best and have the most advanced tech too.
Yes I also think Fairphone is trying to be sustainable. They are doing good stuff, but they are too small to have their own factories etc.
I guess I didn't make that very clear, I want a non-closed system.
Apple os is obviously a jail, but Google is getting worse and worse at controlling their environment, what you're allowed to do with your phone and bloatware and so many of their featured updates encumber my phone.
For instance, I can't remove the date and time from my home screen?
Or Google still won't tell me which devices are connected to my hotspot?
That is absolutely ridiculous.
Fair phone on the other hand, is deliberately providing an open source Linux operating system for phones that allows actual privacy and customization of your phone if you choose that route.
I vastly prefer that option to any corporate environment OS I've tried so far.
China does not have the best tach, Taiwan is far and away leading the charge in chip tech, even Intel is ahead of chinese chip tech.
China has been the cheapest factory country for a couple decades, but that does not mean that they manufacture the best products.
And I haven't heard any reports about workers jumping off the roof of fairphone buildings in China, not to mention that apple works very hard to obscure their manufacturing base and organization, while fair phone does not.
I'm not convinced that Apple, who uses child labor and sweatshops to build their phones specifically to cut costs, treats their workers better than a company focused on transparency and ethical manufacturing and supply lines.
I'll need some sort of evidence if you're going to insist on that point.
I do keep hearing about graphene OS, and I will look into it has an alternative because this stock OS is as frustrating to use as any I've ever had.
I am not advertizing for apple, I hate that company. Just as perspective on how much Fairphone pays the workers.
FairphoneOS is fully FOSS?
I am comparing GrapheneOS against Fairphone, not Googles Pixel BS.
Agreed AOSP is a Google OS with actively restricted capabilities. But it is the best we have.
I get that, and I wouldn't trust any numbers Apple puts out there, seeing as how they constantly fudge their numbers in every aspect of their business, and we know they have no regard for workers rights at all.
I don't think Murena is strictly foss, but a lot of it is open source and it is degoogled, so you have a lot more control over your environment and all of the fundamental features apparently can be switched out according to your whim.
And murena explicitly doesn't send data to Google or any third party, by design. There are apparently specific tools in Murena that allow you to track permissions and exactly which apps are exporting data and how much, with the option to enable or disable those permissions and data uploads as you see fit, data sending is not pre-installed or checked by default.
As far as I understand, there aren't any apps that are "Oh no. Sorry you can't uninstall this. It's way too important. Also, you can't disable permissions and you can't stop sending data back to us", which are practically all Google services now.
So it's not the perfect solution, but it's a very large practical step in the right direction, and I don't want to take part in these giant unethical, money grubbing slave using companies anymore if there is any viable alternative.
I'm very happy there is finally a third option.
GrapheneOS was the first one to proxy SUPL and DRM leasing.
Also they selfhost connectivity check and attestation servers.
Maybe Murena copied their code.
Degoogled doesnt mean using AOSP or Chromium. Google products include Google everywhere.
Try to use googleteller with Chromium. Its a small tool that beeps if you connect to a google site. That shit was so scary
Degoogling means not depending on Google apps and services.
That's the point of murena, they've replaced most google-dependent apps and services in the OS with foss apps/services.
I'm not a zealot about degoogling, but I don't want to use their apps or services, and with murena I don't have to.
I don't use chromium, though I am well aware of the frequency and amount of data Google collects.
Pretty sick of it.
You use Chromium and you use a Google product because you use Android.
Please go to "settings - apps - show all apps" and enable "show system apps".
Do you have a webview? This is Chromium. Firefoxes Geckoview does the same but it is not feature complete and cannot be used as a webview.
Google is everywhere.
- updates
- store, certification
- safetynet, now play ingegrity to run banking apps etc
- RCS messages
- SUPL server for quicker A-GPS
- connectivity check for switching between wifi and cell data
- same server used to detect captive portals
- some device authentification when booting up
This is all AOSP. No Google apps on the surface, all FOSS. Then play services and frameworks are used for
- location services (unifiedNLP is abandoned, only available as a privileged system app through microG which is extremely insecure)
- displaying maps
- push messages for most mainstream apps
- google play games etc.
- chromecast
- RCS messages (play services and the Google Messages App needed)
- ...
Those either dont work if you dont have any play services, or you sandbox them to be restricted, possible to disable, isolate in a seperate profile, uninstallable and behind permissions. Or you use microG which fakes values, runs unsandboxed and is still a bunch of proprietary Google stuff.
I wonder how "degoogled" Murena is, please tell me!
You mean pixels, not the fairphone?
Yes, pixels are Google phones and use Google apps and services.
iPhones are Apple phones and use Apple apps and services
But both of these companies by default send a lot of your user data to various third parties.
That is the reason I want a privacy focused phone, to avoid being tethered to a particular environment(you can use alternate OSs by unlocking the bootloader following the steps fairphone provides on their website) and permissions you aren't allowed to customize and are designed to send data to third parties by default.
Murena is based on e/os, which is open-source, it doesn't send user data out by default, they replaced Google apps with open source apps, trackers are removed by default, you can restrict tracking on any apps you choose to have that do track you, Google servers don't check for connectivity, no Play store, location services by Mozilla,
this is the summary from the e/os site today:
https://doc.e.foundation/what-s-e#degoogling--ungoogling-in-eos
And this 2020 paper goes into a little more detail with the services that it blocks, although as you can see from the first link, they've obviously added more features that protect user privacy:
https://e.foundation/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/e-state-of-degooglisation.pdf
They replace Google services and apps with open source and privacy focused services and apps.
While privacy is important to me, the sustainability and general fairness of how fairphone treats their workers and customers and where they get their materials from are at least as important to me.
with fairphone, as far as anyone can tell, they don't source their materials from slave labor, they pay a fair wage, the materials are as sustainable and recyclable as possible, and I can customize my OS and how it operates.