Document From 2022 Reveals Putin’s Punishing Terms for Peace
Document From 2022 Reveals Putin’s Punishing Terms for Peace
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Terms seem rather agreeable and a far sight better than any peace deal that would be signed today.
Why the fuck did they not sign this? It properly codifies security guarantees from the UNSC, only properly relinquishes Crimea, leaves the LNR/DNR up to diplomacy, and makes Russian an official language along with Ukraine (which captures the fact that some 34% of Ukrainians speak Russian).
Hundreds of thousands dead and wounded, millions fled from the country, Crimea still lost, Bakhmut lost, Avdiivka lost, and for what? To "prevent another war" despite more comprehensive security guarantees from the UNSC? To "bleed the Russians dry" despite being outproduced by the sheer industrial output of Soviet-era machinery in Russia? To "stand up for sovereignty" despite clearer and clearer signs of covert US intervention during and following Euromaidan?
What a fucking mess.
Why the fuck did they not sign this?
Boris Johnson (aka NATO) told them to die to the last Ukrainian instead. Literally "the west [wasn't] ready for the war to end".
Heavy day at work?
What's the weather like in Moscow?
You know what also would have saved lives, and reduced tensions?
Not going to war in the first place, the fact is that Putte was the one to attack and start this whole shitshow means that Russia is in the wrong, not Ukraine.
what's the weather like in langely? nice this time of year?
What's the weather like in Moscow?
every time i see this i instinctively think its a bit. Surely there are not human beings this fucking deluded.
Only cool people are capable of doing it as a bit
Only cool people are capable of doing it
Challenge accepted
History began in feb 2022 and the maidan is tankie propaganda
I am sorry to have to tell you this, but history doesn't have a starting date as a concept.
The maidan protests were hugely important and is not just fake propaganda.
hugely important for the fascist hooligans and their CIA backers, yes.
Let's be clear: your claim is that no fighting occurred before Russia's invasion in 2022?
No? That is exactly why I didn't enter a date in my post...
Putte did attack Crimea in 2014, that is what I consider the start of the current conflict.
Putte? Is this some language thing or an infantile baby name a la Putler?
The roots of the conflict lie in the illegal dissolution of the Soviet Union
Putte is a Swedish name that is commonly used to talk down to a person, calling them small, it is similar to Putin, and I like insulting dickheads with imperial dreams.
As for the "illegal" dissolution of the Soviet Union, that is a different discussion and happened 22 years before the invasion of Crimea, and can't be used as an excuse for the invasion in any rational argument based in reality.
I like insulting dickheads with imperial dreams.
Oh, the irony
Pop quiz, what is the largest country in the world by geographical size?
"Imperialism is when you own land, I am very smart."
Ooh! I like this game! Let me try:
“I contribute nothing to the conversation. After decades of festering in poverty and a perverse environment, and seeing how others are wealthier, smarter, better looking, and overall better people than me, I have become so jaded that I serve merely as a refined vessel of snark and pessimism.”
festering in poverty and a perverse environment, and seeing how others are wealthier, smarter, better looking, and overall better people than me
Whoa a fascist with an inflated opinion of themselves? No way!
So it's both, got it.
It's not an excuse, it's a cause. It causes regional instability that eventually results in a civil war in 2013 that escalates further in 2022
The remnants of your alcohol diluted brains lie in the Soviet Union. The dissolution of USSR was not illegal, the formation of it was.
lmao are you arguing that the October Revolution was illegal
I should have probably said Soviet empire or whatever. Obviously I meant the aggressive expansion and funsie deals with nazies so they both get to commit their own little genocides
The Red Army stopped the Holocaust and saved the world from fascism while the western powers were playing with their dicks in Africa. They only invaded France after it became clear that Soviet victory was inevitable in order to prevent Western Europe from being liberated from capitalism.
Just because soviets did 1 right thing after nazis stabbed them in the back, doesn't make them the good guys. Somehow you forgot to mention that soviet rapearmy also illegally occupied all the territory they passed on the way to Berlin
way to commit holocaust denial and fascism apologia in one go.
Bro what are you smoking?
I don't smoke because it's bad for my lungs.
That said, I'll leave you with a quote from Thomas Mann,
To place Russian communism on the same moral level with Nazi fascism, because both are totalitarian, is, at best, superficial, in the worse case it is fascism. He who insists on this equality may be a democrat; in truth and in his heart, he is already a fascist, and will surely fight fascism with insincerity and appearance, but with complete hatred only communism.
You're wrong on two key points:
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USSR and Nazi Germany only made a nonaggression act after other Western countries did because Western powers purposefully did not invite the USSR. It was a way to try to protect Czechslovakia and Poland since the Westerns were simply giving up Central Europe to the Nazis. You can read more about it here.
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The famine in the USSR was not a genocide. That is Nazi propaganda. Read about it here.
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you're thinking of the Munich Agreement mate
Ah yes that was the agreement between soviets and nazis yes? Way to act dumb
If Japan, South Korea or whoever suddenly had a Chinese backed coup and took control of US naval bases in their country, what do you think the US response would be?
Because that's exactly what happened in Ukraine. US backed coup, Russia moves in to Crimea to secure it's black sea naval base.
Is this the first time you are hearing this?
Here's another what if. What if Scotland voted for independence from the UK and became socialist or whatever. Do you think England wouldn't seize is nuclear submarine bases north of Glasgow?
How fucking baby brained are you?
You mean the conflict that literally started with the people of Donetsk and Luhansk taking up arms against a government that was explicitly shutting down their language and implementing outright oppressive laws against their ethnicities?
I mean, the US was stirring up shit on their doorstep for nearly a decade, backing a coup and then dangling NATO membership over the noses of the new puppet government. What did they expect to happen (p.s. they knew exactly what would happen, the US wanted a war)?
And I mean, if the US can start wars half way across the world to protect its borders and interests I don't think they can be too surprised if another power does the same thing in their own front yard.
Regardless, I find the NATO malding utterly delicious. US about to lose yet another war.
Favourite thing about this is that he literally admitted like 30 years ago that expanding NATO will provoke a reaction from Russia eventually and was against it before he got the MIC bribes. If they were so keen on expanding NATO then they should've let Russia into it when Yeltsin was in power and they could've had the entirety of eastern Europe in their fold but they just couldn't resist punishing the Russian people for trusting the west in the 80s.
You are attempting to rewrite history. Russia was in a downward spiral. As a whole it had yet to show that it could be a full ally to the West. Moreover, it is extremely rare in history for ideologically divergent cultures to become allies within the short term (exceptions such as Japan and USA, UK and USA, UK and France come to mind). It takes time (and usually generations removed) for such things to occur.
Now, it appears the West's hesitation at the time to accept Russia into NATO was prescient. Yes, maybe things could have been different if Russia had been accepted, but the risk that the alliance would have been shattered due to Russia's entry was too much to bear.
I for one do hope that one day Russia and the West become will become allies, but Russia has some maturing to do in regards to liberty and governance, I think, before that time comes.
You are either a deeply unserious person or you're doing a very commited bit. I can't decide which one it is.
What’s the weather like in Moscow?
Thanks for asking, it was around +10 degrees per Celsius this afternoon, which is quite warm for this time of the year. But there is a downside as there's melting snow everywhere.
You know what also would have saved lives, and reduced tensions? Not going to war in the first place, the fact is that Putte was the one to attack and start this whole shitshow means that Russia is in the wrong, not Ukraine.
This profound analysis is a real gem of modern Western thought!
You know what also would have saved lives, and reduced tensions?
Not expanding NATO.
Putin has been the driving force in expanding NATO. Literally none would care if we didn't have to worry about that asshole eastern neighbor
NATO started expanding before putin was in power. In fact Joe Biden warned the US government that expanding NATO will naturally provoke Russia.
Literally every country in Europe joining NATO since 1991 was because of Russia. Before that, because of the Soviet Union. After Russia attacked Ukraine in 2022, Finland and Sweden seemed to join NATO because of Russia.
Realistically, Russia has nothing to fear of NATO without provoking first. Its a defense alliance not some conspiracy to steal ruski vodka
Yep NATO is famous for defensive wars like the Defense in Iraq, the defence in Afghanistan, the defence in Libya, the defence in Syria and all.
Don't forget the defense on drugs.
And to add to that, Putin thinks that Ukraine shouldn't exist. So naturally what do you think the government of Ukraine is going to do?
NATO has been the driving force in expanding NATO. Literally none would care if we didn't have to worry about that asshole western neighbor
It’s also pretty silly because there are two NATO member nations closer to Moscow than Ukraine.
But hey, I can’t imagine why the people of all these democratic nations keep voting to join a mutual defense pact. It can’t be because of anything to do with fear of being invaded by the unstable dictator next door, after all, we know the world only exists of the US and Russia and no other people could possibly have a voice in their local government or matter in any way.
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/25/world/europe/cia-ukraine-intelligence-russia-war.html
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/dec/15/john-mccain-ukraine-protests-support-just-cause
Imagine China/Russia does the same stuffs in Mexico and see how US react?
The terms seem agreeable?
The terms that restrict the size of the Ukrainian military, bar Ukraine from receiving foreign assistance to rebuild its military, forbid it from seeking security guarantees from any country or bloc, ... The terms that would have made it trivial for Russia to further invade at any point in the future?
Those terms seem agreeable?
Because any state is an apparatus of violence? Regardless whether it is Ukraine or Russia?
