196 @lemmy.blahaj.zone Moss @lemmy.blahaj.zone 4 mo. ago

196 Stands with Palestine, but those of you in the US should still vote in the general election.

I've been seeing a lot of anti-voting sentiment going around. Can't believe I have to say this, but you need to vote. Not only is there more to the election than just the president. (State policy, Senate, house), but not voting is not an act of protest. C'mon guys

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First of all, I will absolutely be voting in the general, for whoever has the backing of the Democrat party, whether that be Biden or someone else if something unforseen happens. However, I think it's important to recognize a few key key matters.

Not voting is an act of protest, but it is a largely ineffective form of protest. Protesting is the way the people voice their concerns, and deliberately not voting is in fact a way of voicing concern. However, this is an emotional, unobjective form.

Biden, and the overall US war machine, is complicit in genocide. This fact should not be denied for the sake of an election. Simply voting third party is unobjective, this results in the outward fascists taking power, but at the same time, toeing the line results in further entrenchment of liberalism.

How can we resolve the former 2 statements? Simple. Protest loud, as much as you can, during the primaries. Force Biden's hand.

Just as we can hold people responsible if they vote third party during the general, or not voting, we can also hold Biden accountable. This isn't simply a matter like Single Payer Healthcare, which would take tremendous effort with the support of congress to pass, this is something in his hands.

I'll reiterate: if your goal is to help the Palestinian people, there is only one correct path: protest as much as you can, as early as you can, until Biden caves and ceases the genocide. If you do not protest Biden now, while we still have the chance to change his course, then we risk protests lasting even longer and hurting his chances during the General, backfiring.

The Condition for Victory is a swift, loud, uncontestable wake-up call for Biden, followed by rallied support once genuine, positive change is shown to happen. Biden has already started to feel the pressure, and has begun sending some petty aid. Biden cannot risk losing the general, and we cannot risk Biden losing the general either, nor can we stand by and watch Biden support genocide.

Vote in the Primary against Biden, and vote in the General for Biden.
- Thank you. So tired of people who never vote in primaries complaining about how the candidates are bad.
  
  Sucky candidates are not merely the product of failing to vote in the primaries. Both parties have systems that favor money and endorsement by legacy establishment figures over popularity, and additional policies are added when a popular antiestablishment candidate slips into office (like Occasio-Cortez).
  
  It's telling in 2020 the DNC elected the most right-wing, establishment candidate that wasn't a far right Billionaire when we had numerous more moderate options.
  
  The US is in the iron grip of boomer conservatives clinging to power as demonstrated by multiple officials succumbing to age and dementia. The people really don't have much say.
- Not voting to protest is as effective as setting yourself on fire in a first world country.
  
  It's not particularly effective, but is still a form of protest. It's important to recognize it as such, because:
  
  It means that there are people who are attempting to have their voice heard
  
  They can be steered towards better forms of getting what they want if they are shown better forms of praxis.
  
  At the end of the day, protestors are people with goals, and if you can convince them that this goal may be met more effectively otherwise, they can be allies.
  
  Unfortunately, lots of folks here on lemmy seem antithetical to the idea that slow or minor progress still counts as progress. Maybe it's a communication issue inherent to this format, but the crux of the argument I see most often is "Biden did genocide, genocide is bad. Therefore, any support for Biden is support for genocide outright."
  
  It seems like an inability or unwillingness to recognize degrees of tragedy...it's the worst case of letting the perfect be the enemy of the good. I hope I'm wrong, but I'm getting pretty damn nervous about the number of folks saying outright that they won't ever vote for Biden because they don't accept the premise that, as long as we still have FPTP elections and the electoral college, voting anyone other than the mainstream Dem candidate makes a Republican victory more likely, regardless of the candidates either party puts forward. I know that at least some of these folks are just trolls, but we're on a razor-thin margin, and in a scenario where 100k votes across a handful of states will likely decide the contest, I worry about even a single person being talked out of participating meaningfully in the election.
  
  It's exasperated by the fact that, for a lot of young voters, every election they've been old enough to participate in has been a boring old white person vs a wannabe dictator and so they've started feeling like "it's the most important election ever" is just a scare tactic to make them vote blue.
  
  I think a key issue here is that you're combining unlike things and trying to make coherent sense of that, rather than analyzing what is driving people to feel this way.
  
  The first part you mentioned, is a key disagreement you have with people opposing reformism. A significant part of leftist history is the conflict between reform and revolution, whether reform is even possible at a large scale or if revolution will ever be more likely to succeed, and so forth. The people opposing reform are not saying that incremental change isn't good, but that:
  
  Incremental change is simply too little, too late, in a modern late-stage Capitalist dystopia
  
  Because the course of politics in modern first world Capitalist counties like the US follows whatever the interests of large Capitalists are, any meaningful reform will be hindered or even reversed unless the system is overthrown in its entirety.
  
  The second claim, that Biden doing genocide is bad and voting for Biden is voting for continued genocide, is built off of the prior point. Because voting for a right winger like Biden or a fascist like Trump will both result in more genocide, their conclusion is that voting for either is to continue genocide, though it remains implicit that if Biden stopped the genocide, they would vote for him.
  
  I of course believe it would get worse under Trump, so as I already mentioned, I will vote for Biden. However, I also understand that protesting against Biden is the best way to change his course now, rather than later.
  
  The final disagreement you have with these people is the idea that Biden is a "slow good" rather than a "slow evil." You're not talking to liberals, you're talking to leftists, who wish to see some form of Socialism take place in America. Biden is continuing the Imperialist project of American Liberalism at the expense of Workers both inside and outside of the US, you can't convince leftists that Biden is good, actually.
  
  The truly best way to get leftists to vote for Biden is to get them to see what is directly more beneficial to the international Proletariat, protest voting for a third party or picking Biden and trying to use that time to organize on the ground, which is easier than under Trump. That's the real key, not to try to convince them Biden is good but slow.
  
  This is actually very useful framing...I'm gonna chew on this for a bit and try to untangle some of my own implicit premises.
  
  Never said it wasn't a form of protest. I said it's not effective and I'd like to add that it's also very dumb. Like setting yourself on fire in a first world country.
  
  That's why I elaborated, though if you're only going to read the first sentence then why even bother replying?

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