Israeli soccer fans were attacked in Amsterdam. The violence was condemned as antisemitic
Israeli soccer fans were attacked in Amsterdam. The violence was condemned as antisemitic
Dutch authorities say people on scooters attacked Israeli fans overnight after a soccer game in Amsterdam apparently fueled by calls to target Jewish people spread online.
Israeli fans were assaulted after a soccer game in Amsterdam by hordes of young people apparently riled up by calls on social media to target Jewish people, Dutch authorities said Friday. Five people were treated for injuries at hospitals and dozens were arrested.
Ahead of the game, large crowds of supporters of the Israeli team could be seen on video chanting anti-Arab slogans as they headed to the stadium, escorted by police.
“Let the IDF win, and (expletive) the Arabs,” the fans chanted, using the acronym of the Israeli military, as they shook their fists. It also showed police pushing several pro-Palestinian protesters away from a Maccabi fan gathering in a square earlier in the day.
You're viewing a single thread.
Article sounds like it's not anti-Semitic.
It's because of their support of a nation that's currently committing genocide, not because of their religion.
Sounds more like far right Israelis wearing Israeli gear started the confrontations (and likely violence) and are now playing victim. Which is kind of their whole deal...
Ahead of the game, large crowds of supporters of the Israeli team could be seen on video chanting anti-Arab slogans as they headed to the stadium, escorted by police.
“We acted like garbage people, and then got treated like garbage, that’s antisemitic!”
Israeli fans were assaulted after a soccer game in Amsterdam by hordes of young people apparently riled up by calls on social media to target Jewish people, Dutch authorities said Friday.
. . .
On the social media platform Telegram, “there is talk of people going on a Jew hunt,” Halsema said. “That is so shocking and so despicable that I still cannot fathom it.”
I'm not sure "Jew hunts" are criticism of Israel. If that isn't some Nazi shit, what is?
The report is someone saying they saw someone on telegram who claimed they saw it somewhere else...
That's a credible claim to you?
Even ignoring all the propaganda Israel and it's far right get up to, those unfounded claims are enough to retroactively excuse crowds of Israelis cheering genocide?
Everyone has different morals, but I'm afraid ours are so far out of alignment I really don't want to continue
There are more articles out there reporting on the same thing. Just because it might not fit your preconceived notions, or the narrative that you have already decided on, it doesn't mean it didn't happen.
Here, for example, if you scroll down:
We've just heard from two people from Britain's Jewish community who attended the football match in Amsterdam.
(...)
“We got to one of the central areas and we saw mopeds turn up and some guys started beating an Israeli guy going back to his hotel," he says, adding they were referring to his religion and stomping on his head.
(...)
“Shortly after, the same men that had attacked the Israeli came up to us right into our personal space, saying are you Jewish? We said no, we are British," he says.
(...)
"They were looking for Jews not just Israelis," he says.
This coming from British men, as reported by the BBC. BBC also release this article a couple of day ago; do you think they are just running propaganda for Israel?
Just because Israel is committing genocide in Palestine, you don't have to condone or try to downplay this type of behavior. You can support Palestine and still acknowledge that this behavior was grounded in antisemitism. Or do you find it unlikely that in central Europe, and with the rise of the far right, there are Nazis and other antisemites? Not to mention football hooligans are usually quite right wing.
The claims are from Dutch authorities, not a random "someone," and not solely from Israeli authorities. From the Guardian's coverage:
The mayor of Amsterdam, Femke Halsema, described an “outburst” of antisemitism with “hit and run” attacks on the visiting supporters.
“Men on scooters crisscrossed the city looking for Israeli football fans. It was a hit and run. I can easily understand that this brings back memories of pogroms,” Halsema said. “Our city has been deeply damaged. Jewish culture has been deeply threatened. This is an outburst of antisemitism that I hope to never see again.”
. . .
Theodoor van Boven, who owns the Condomerie, near Dam Square on the Warmoesstraat, said he saw gangs apparently hunting and chasing opposing fans. “What we saw here in the street in the evening and at night were groups of often Dutch groups who were out hunting, who were looking for Maccabi fans. They were on foot in groups, on scooters, riding round looking, and telephoning each other – it [seemed to be] organised.”
And, yes, "Jew hunts" are racist even if particular Jews who end up being hunted are themselves racist assholes.
I don't think you understood a single thing I've typed...
Just a dodge, really, but I get it. It ain't easy defending organized Jew hunts.
To stop dancing around it, if someone called you up and said, "hey, let's get together tonight and hunt some Jews!", would you think that's an okay thing to do or a fucked up thing to do?
While there were clashes between pro-Palestinian and pro-Israeli groups (and other incidents), the Dutch authorities -- who know more about this than any of us -- have been unequivocal: the "hunt" was both racist and coordinated. If, say, Dutch neo-Nazis wanted to use anti-Israeli sentiment as a cover for racist violence, how do you think this would look different? Do you think it's okay for Dutch neo-Nazis to do that?
And, if their investigation discovers neo-Nazis or other racist, far-right groups (who are very active in the Netherlands) doing just that, will you own supporting and defending their activity?
The thing is, you're still falling for propaganda, and after the recent election I just don't have the patience to try and talk you out of it
Again, I'm not "falling for propaganda," unless you have a good explanation for how the Dutch police, the mayor of Amsterdam, and the king of the Netherlands are Israeli agents or somehow beholden to Israel to become vehicles for their propaganda. But we can leave it here. I think we're all feeling pretty fucked up after the election. Take care of yourself :)
If that isn't some Nazi shit, what is?
What Israel is doing in Gaza.
And you think that justifies organizing groups of people to hunt Jews in Amsterdam? Should they round up all the Jews in Connecticut just to be safe?
Didn't say it justified shit. You asked what is Nazi stuff, I answered.
This is just an opinion, so take it with that in mind. I think the reason they said "jew hunt" and other similarly gross language is because a group of Israelis were behaving in a greatly offensive manner. And because these people were offended by these Israelis, they used language offensive to israelis in return.
It's not uncommon for hurt people to lash out and act in an offensive manner. I don't think that makes it anti semetic though. Or at least it's different from purposeful antisemitism which hates based on them being jews. This is anger based on them being insufferable cunts. And I really think that's an important distinction. You can't say that Isaraelis can never be hated. You can't say that about any group. No one is permanently exempt from being hated based in their actions. Some groups earn their hate and these ones certainly earned what they got. Whether they deserved what they earned is debatable though.
First, that was an awesome reply. You're the best.
I agree with you. People often say offensive things when they're in heated (verbal) conflict and we frequently make more of it than what it is. We react like, in those moments, people expose their true feelings when what they're doing is saying 'what is the most hurtful thing I could say to you.' I don't think that someone saying something racist in conflict like that makes something a racially motivated attack.
But there are two categories of things that happened here. One was the thing you described (and that we agree on), the other was something premeditated and coordinated. And there is a difference between saying "Jew hunt" and planning a Jew hunt. You don't plan and execute ambushes in the heat of the moment. This planning occurred before most (maybe all) of the things people are saying the attacks were a response to.
When this British man was attacked, they didn't demand to know whether he was Israeli or even supported Israel. They demanded to know if he was a Jew. No matter how people felt about, say, Saudi Arabia, if someone was approaching people in the street and demanding to know whether they're Arab (or Muslim) before attacking them, I wouldn't hesitate to call it racist. Whatever's happening in the world, someone organizing to "hunt Arabs" in my city can fuck right off.
Honestly, if you trade out "Jews" with any other group, can you imagine people making excuses* for it? Is there a context in which it's okay to put out a call to hunt Muslims? Persians? Arabs? Black folks? Women? Any group within the LGBTQ+ community?
*(And, just to be clear, I think you're explaining that it appears worse/different than what it actually is, not making excuses.)
Hey, I found this article on Lemmy as well with more info. Thought you might be interested in reading it. Have a good one!
Sorry for the delayed reply here, but thanks for taking what I said as it was meant. Definitely not excusing anyone here just looking for a reason beyond basal hatred.
Some of those details you relayed I was unaware of and they certainly play against these perpetrators to a greater degree. Thanks for including that info. It almost seems like (as expected of any large group) there is a mixture of degrees. The ones specifically hunting jews instead of targeting the problematic israelis are much further away from being just upset. Something worse is troubling those people and they are firmly in the group I'd call racist. Definitely a difficult situation. Upset people are being grouped in with opportunist racists and nothing good comes of any of it.