Welcome to Lemmy

Where is the bubble that says "imperialism by Russia is fine"?

I hope they all vote for Democrats though, in places where FPTP voting is still used

Btw what's up with all these states up and banning Ranked Choice Voting? Most of them in the past 1-2 years too. I'm not exactly sure of the context, like if there was a bill or a referendum, but with a referendum I would have expected it to say "rejected"/"not adopted", instead of "banned". Definitely seems like RCV needs to be really fought for, and seems like the major parties are afraid of it.
- It's almost like it threatens their duopoly power
  
  I agree, but I have to say, the term "duopoly" doesn't ring the same in this environment where Republicans are frothing at the mouth to mass arrest the Democrats.
  
  Sure, but your conflating the common man who votes that way and who we also prescribe the same labels to with the actual representatives with power. Chuck shumer and Nancy pelosi do not want the Bernie's of the world getting power. They like being the lesser of two evils because they can do almost as much as the trump admin does and be praised for it when in reality it's still evil. You really think they want citizens United repealed? The patriot act repealed? Federally elected officials banned from buying investments? Fptp voting changed to ranked choice means independents can win and actual implement change.
  It's a duopoly.
  
  That's true, I was just pointing out that the Schumer types at the DNC really don't understand that their Republican "colleagues" are taking active steps to throw them in jail or worse. In this sense it feels weird to call it a duopoly given that the only ones giving any direction the whole time were the GOP, while the establishment Dems were their useful idiots, always following their lead and trying to triangulate their policy and rhetoric between status quo and fascism, you know, to appeal to the "middle" and the "moderate Republican". It's absolute madness! And you might say they know what they're doing, that they planned this like a good/bad cop routine, but honestly... I find it much easier to see them as old stupid out of touch aristocrats with big piles of money going blindly wherever capital leads them, than as scheming double agents, because the latter would imply some actual awareness of their surroundings, which they don't have! They're totally blind to the fact that the only logical conclusion to their triangulation strategy with fascists is them in a gulag. It's plain as day, it's happening right now under their very eyes, but their priorities are... fighting David Hogg??
  I'm referring to the politicians here btw, not the voters. I think the voters are really mad at Schumer and the DNC right now, and I think they're looking for new leadership. In that sense, AOC has risen in popularity recently because she's been engaging with people directly both IRL and on social media, but I'm not getting my hopes up until I see something real actually happen, and I mean nothing short of seeing the establishment Dems gone. Because even now as the world burns, the DNC is fighting tooth and nail against anyone challenging them from the left. And honestly, it may already be too late as it is, like for the whole country. I hope not, but I don't have much hope left tbh.
  
  I can't argue with that angle tbh, they really might just be that stupid lol
  It's really down to the individual as to what they believe the Democrats are really up to. It certainly isn't helping the middle and lower classes. The bar is so low right now...any change that drags us back to the left at all would be mind blowing at this point.
  I'm hoping for someone like mayor Pete in 2028 if we are lucky enough to have a fair election by then, he's a great speaker and likeable to a ton of people I think. He has a shot at uniting the voters.
  
  Pete would be a kind of Obama. But remember that Obama created the conditions for Trump. Honestly, people like them are worse because they get people's hopes up and then crush them with their (in)actions.
  The only way to escape the cycle of neoliberalism (sham democracy, fascism, sham democracy, fascism, etc.) is to elect someone who is not a neoliberal. Someone who has a socialist mindset and can put democracy above capital. Someone who can acknowledge and attempt to fix real systemic issues which keep people down. Someone who is willing to tackle wealth inequality head-on through unapologetic redistribution. And maybe this should be first: someone who actually cares about workers' rights and wants to make it so that all the technological advancement benefits them too, through shorter workweeks and shorter workdays. We need a kind of person similar to people in the past generation who never stopped until they got the weekend and 8h workweek, that kind of character, someone who dreams big and fights for like a 3-day workweek of 4 hours each, and mandatory shares for each employee same as minimum wage, which btw should be like triple what it is now. And someone who believes that billionaires should not exist, i.e. can tax them to sub-billion wealth. (I know, craaazy.)
  And of course to actually apply the law and prosecute the fascists and their propaganda machine (media, think tanks, billionaire donors) the way it always should have from the beginning since they've been conspiring and committing treason for decades. Sedition I think is the word. (And if this sounds like an exaggeration in the style of MAGA pundits, that's because every accusation is a confession with them. They preemptively accuse their enemy of doing the same thing they're doing so that it sounds crazy or at least unoriginal when they get accused of it later.)
  Without very bold changes like the above, we are doomed. Mayor Pete cannot do that. He's a neoliberal with maybe one good idea, like abolishing the Electoral College or something. But it's not enough. The US needs Reconstruction.
  
  I agree with you on all that but 1 thing.
  I don't see obama as a problem for progress. The executive is always fighting with the legislature in our system.
  https://www.beaconjournal.com/story/news/2012/09/09/when-obama-had-total-control/985146007/
  Obama had 60 Senate votes for four months and that's when the ACA was passed.
  It seems to me a bit too reductive to say that he was not doing anything. The system is too complex for that. People think the president has a lever that controls gas prices though, so I don't expect this fact to matter to a lot of people.
  i believe that someone like Pete will respond to pressure as well as appeal broadly, so we voters have a chance to put him there first.
  
  Yeah, don't get me wrong — it's not that Obama/Pete types don't do anything. Generally they do things, and those things are good. (I'm simplifying for the sake of argument, since there are also bad policies that liberals engage in, obviously.)
  The problem is that the good things don't go far enough — even ACA was based on the Mitt Romney plan drew up by the goddamn Heritage Foundation! It was a compromise of a compromise. All other developed countries have some version of universal healthcare, while the US has preventable deaths and medical bankruptcies and Blackrock suing United Healthcare for breaking fiduciary duty by not refusing enough clients, a thing it did so often that its CEO got merced for it.
  Or, take education: as someone from an EU country, I have a master's degree and zero debt — it was all free although I did have to pass an exam ahead of a hundred others, but if I needed to pay, it would have been like 1-2k USD per year, with a chance each year to get into the free tier next year if I got good grades.
  Anyway, my point is that when people get too many small compromises for a long time, they start to feel duped, they get uneasy, then frustrated, then angry (disinformation contributes a lot to this process), so next thing you know they begin to reject "not enough" in favor of "burn it down". People yearn for fundamental changes, this is why they're voting Trump types all around the world: they promise big change, they promise to move fast and break things. People feel like nothing ever happens, so the promise of any change gives them hope. Ironically, the fascist appeal is just a bizarro version of "hope and change".
  And here's the darkest part: despite the differences I outlined above about healthcare and education, EU countries still have the same systemic problems. People still feel duped. People are still frustrated. People still choose fascists here. Because the problems are very deep: inequality, alienation, disinformation. And neoliberalism doesn't have an answer to any of them: you need a democratic socialist for that, i.e. someone who's willing to reject capital to put people's needs first.
  
  "I'm scared of the bad cop so I will put my trust in the good cop"
  This is a torture/interegation tactic to manipulate you.
  
  I'm not having this conversation. Good luck.
- RCV experiments have gotten a lot of backlash from establishment parties, usually because they lost and they want to blame the "new process" instead of their platforms, policies, or actions.
Yeahhhh, I hate to break it to you but..........there's a lot of them that do not vote blue especially when it counts.
- Hillary lost because the DNC ran a corrupt campaign where they ignored the will of their voters.
  Kamala lost because the DNC ran a corrupt campaign where they ignored the will of their voters.
  
  Your statements and mine are both true. The first time we didn't know what a trump presidency would be like. In 2024 we did. I didn't vote for Hilary over the Bernie snub, but I knew better in 2024.
  Despite Kamala being the most centrist thing we could ever elect, we wouldn't be in a crisis in this country like we are today if she won. virtue signaling, self righteous, no compromise, bite my nose off to deport my neighbor ultra leftists can't be bothered to use a little empathy. They are too wrapped up in their fee fees about the establishment not listening to them to do the tough thing and minimize the harm. Help the Dems win. elect someone who will respond to pressure.
  There's no excuse for letting trump win and enabling his administration to hurt untold numbers of people through illegal raids, deportation, support of genocide, pulling support from Ukraine, cutting social security and Medicaid benefits, removing narcan from first responders, driving stigma against trans people, overturning abortion laws and criminalizing it, and much more I can't keep track of or has yet to happen....we had the data from 45. We knew what p2025 was going to do. We still put him there. There is no excuse. This electorate is so embarrassing, they've completely lost the plot.
  
  Yeah the brand of leftist that cannot understand two things can be true is so annoying.
  
  Yeah it's sad human beings have issues accepting doublethink
  
  Nuance /=/ doublethink. We were trying to save people... You're not a good person if you threw your vote away in spite to send a message. People are suffering and dying because of this.
  
  When a person accepts two confilcing beleifs that's called doublethink
  Blaming voters is not a viable way to win elections.
  
  Those beliefs aren't actually conflicting because the circumstances in which you apply them are different and that matters.
  What IS conflicting is saying you don't approve of what a democrat says or does as president and then actively working in the benefit of someone you KNOW full well is worse. That's hypocritical.
  
  You can acknowledge two things are bad and still make a choice for harm reduction. You're not suddenly "accepting" that this is now a good thing. You're making a sacrifice for other things
  
  Exhibit A
  
  Blaming voters for the outcome of an election will never be a viable strategy unless you want infighting.
  
  Are you confused about how voting works? The eligible voters are the ones responsible for who wins in a free and fair election.
  
  Ok so you're telling us you want infighting.
  Because blaming voters for not voting is something that never has gotten people to magically make the "correct" decision.
  If someone wants another person to vote for them they have to communicate to and appeal to that person.
  Democrata have not seriously listened or helped their voters my entire life, when they feel like forcing the rich to make concessions then people who would benefit from those concessions will vote for them.
  Until then you whining about a voting block that has and probably never will show up is only dividing people.
  
  AND ANOTHER THING
  YOURE NO BETTER THAN A SELFISH REPUBLICAN WHEN YOU SPEAK ABOUT THE LACK OF AID DIRECTED DIRECTLY TO YOU. ITS ABOUT PROGRESS FOR ALL.
  BUT LETS INDULDGE THE STANDARD YOURE INVOKING
  THE DEMOCRATS HAVE DONE A TREMENDOUS AMOUNT FOR AMERICANS, YOU DIRECTLY BENEFIT FROM A TON OF THE THINGS LISTED BELOW. YOUR CLAIM IS INSANITY.
  HERES A FUCKING LIST OF JUST THE LAST 4 YEARS UNDER BIDEN.
  https://www.reddit.com/r/WhatBidenHasDone/comments/1abyvpa/the_complete_list_what_biden_has_done/
  AND EVEN BEYOND THINGS THAT HE WAS ABLE TO ACCOMPLISH, BIDEN SPENT 4 YEARS TRYING TO PASS STUDENT LOAN FORGIVENESS BEING BLOCKED BY REPUBLICANS THAT TRUMP PUT IN THE SUPREME COURT WHEN HE BEAT HILLARY IN 2016.
  OBAMA PASSED THE AFFORDABLE CARE ACT, KILLED OSAMA BIN LADEN, SIGNED THE 2015 PARIS CLIMATE ACCORDS, GOT IRAN TO SIGN A NUCLEAR DEAL, REPEALED DONT ASK DONT TELL AND HELPED SAME SEX MARRIAGE PARTNERS GET SOCIAL SECURITY AND VA BENEFITS, AND MORE HERES A LIST
  https://washingtonmonthly.com/2017/01/03/obamas-top-50-accomplishments-revisited/
  CLINTON BALANCED THE FEDERAL BUDGET AND CREATED A SURPLUS AND CREATED A BOOMING ECONOMY WHICH SAW LOW WELFARE, HIGH EMPLOYMENT, 22 MILLION NEW JOBS, HIGHEST HOME OWNERSHIP, AND RECORD ECONOMIC EXPANSION. AS WELL AS GUN LEGISLATION WITH THE BRADY BILL, BUILDING INTERNET INFRASTRUCTURE FOR SCHOOLS, DISMANTLING NUCLEAR WARHEADS FROM THE COLD WAR, AND MORE HERES A FUCKING LIST
  https://clintonwhitehouse5.archives.gov/WH/Accomplishments/eightyears-01.html
  AND BEYOND ALL OF THAT, THE STUPIDEST PART OF ALL OF THIS IS THAT KAMALA HAD THE CLOSEST VOTING RECORD TO BERNIE'S IN THE SENATE. SHE RAN A TERRIBLE CAMPAIGN BUT THE VOTING RECORD SPEAKS FOR ITSELF.
  SO THE IDEA THAT YOU ARE PRESENTING HERE IS FUCKING LIES TO JUSTIFY YOUR ACTIONS
  
  Is it not appealing enough that Kamala Harris wouldn't have done ALL THE FUCKING THINGS I LISTED??
  YOURE LITERALLY TELLING ME WITH YOUR OWN WORDS THAT ALL THE SHIT I LISTED ISNT ENOUGH FOR YOU. KNOWING THIS WOULD HAPPEN DIDNT PHASE YOU
  YOU FUCKING HYPOCRITE PYSCHOPATH
  YOU HAVE BLOOD ON YOUR HANDS.
  the blood of Palestinians, mothers who die in childbirth, ukrainians, trans people, minorities, deoported immigrants, legal residents in CECOT probably being tortured.
  Those people and many more will rest well in their FUCKING GRAVES KNOWING YOU DIDNT GIVE AN INCH TO THE ESTABLISHMENT IN THE MOST CRITICAL ELECTION OF OUR LIVES.
  IF YOU VOTED FOR KAMALA THEY WOULD STILL BE HERE TO FIGHT FOR YOU STUPID FUCK

Ahh yes, the "left party"

I agree we need a third party where leftist policies are allowed to exist
- You need a different electoral system then

We could put the dems in the same circle with the left if we paid them enough. Have we tried that yet? Everyone empty your pockets on the table here and lets count.

One of them can actually pass policy unfortunately

Edit: I'm not saying I agree with their policies dumbasses. I want the left to pass policy. But until the left understands how to become politically effective and build coalitions we're stuck in this quagmire forever

They keep saying that but...
- Well, compared to the other one which one would you say passed more policies?
  
  Republicans without a doubt pass more policies.
  Democrats pass policies that funnel money into corporations, but fail to pass meaningful policy that helps the majority.
  We clearly need different leadership than the Duopoly.
  
  I'm not doing a good job communicating what I'm trying to say and I take full responsibility.
  To me the Dems are liberals -- or republican lite with sprinkle of some progressive social policies.
  I know the left is constrained to building its coalition within the big tent that is the democratic party. But when I look at the way the left goes about building power --especially when looking at the nature of online discourse -- I get the sense they are not interested in building effective power or accomplishing their goals. It feels more like verbal mental masturbation 99% of the time.

what if im pro imperialist but anti capitalist?

Fuck you?
Trolls usually vote for Republicans
- Remember, Republicans are the proletariat, at least at the bottom, and they are the reactionary forces that you eventually will need to adopt if you would want to see a better day. They are the reactionary elements of capitalism in crisis. They are those that were left to their own devices to fester in agony due to liberalism.
- Nah i voted for harris. the democrats are imperialist and capitalist
Then you're neither a leftist nor a Democrat.
- The leftist thing depends on if imperialism in their eyes brings about egalitarianism.
  
  The old "let's put socialism in the name" trick
Like the CCP? At least rhetorically.
- nah the ccp sucks, at least if youre not chinese.
  i think the ccp is necessarily tied to the chinese racial identity - they try very hard to promote unity between chinese people, its not in their interest to expand their borders and include outsiders in their democracy.
  what makes the usa special is that they dont have to be unified by the illusion of race. exploiting racial divides from within tarnishes that for short lived political gain.
  the current flavor of imperialism practiced by all of these is to keep other countries 'conquered' in their own borders and use capitalism and corruption to exploit them in perpetuity. the usa and europe and the saudis too.
  its naieve to think that if we were to stop , someone else wouldnt just swoop in and quietly take the reigns. as things are most of humanity will remain wage slaves or literal slaves forever, having any societal progress they make be wiped out through clandestine interference.
  and if we stop doing THAT, we risk some shitty dictatorship developing advanced weapons like nukes or bioweapons, or conquering their neighbors themselves.
  whatever global sphere can somehow create a better social order thats capable of scaling to include all of humanity without having any of them be forced into some form of slavery, SHOULD conquer the world.
  Right now, nobodys really close to that. but it should be the goal. and if anyone can "win" even by the current shitty practice of imperialism, at least it means war can be avoided down the road.