cafe in Amsterdam could not produce a receipt -- a “digital transformation” scenario; are receipts no longer obligatory?
cafe in Amsterdam could not produce a receipt -- a “digital transformation” scenario; are receipts no longer obligatory?
Apparently merchants are no longer required to give customers a paper receipt. A cafe with a no-cash sign also had no menus. Normally I would move along but they had something unique that I wanted to try.
They had wifi without a captive portal, so I was able to get online. But the menu would not render in my browser (“Privacy Browser”). No idea what the malfunction was but I just got a black screen when visiting the menu. So the staff had a phone they let me use (which is important because who’s to say that all customers even carry a smartphone).
I was able to place an order. I’m not sure how they normally work out which order goes to what table because there was no step of identifying my table in the UI. Perhaps they guess based on timing of my entrance. After placing an order, I tapped a pay afterwards option. And I was able to pay at the register. But the register had no printer. No way of producing receipts.
me: I would like a receipt please
staff: that will be in gmail¹
me: what email? I was never asked for an email address.
Staff discusses among themselves how to add an email address to an order that came from one of their phones. Turns out to be impossible (at least as far as they knew).
¹ yes they really said “gmail” not email, which made me realise /their/ address is gmail, and thus the receipt would be transmitted with Google in the loop.
So even if they could work out a way to associate my email address to the order, the receipt would come from Google. Of course the first problem is assuming customers even have an email account and willingness to share it. The assumption that breaks down in my case is the assumption that I am okay with Google tracking my offline commerce.
GAFAM is investing fortunes in buying offline sales data and I oppose willfully feeding these tech giants. I will not give an email address to a gmail user.
I was denied a receipt because of a competency issue, but had competency not been an issue I would have still been denied a receipt because of my ethical stance. Is this really legal?² What if it had been a business meal subject to a tax deduction? The taxman wants receipts.
After I left, it later occurred to me to ask for a hand-written receipt on a napkin or whatever they can come up with. I will ask for that next time.
² My question of legality is strictly in terms of denying customers a printed receipt. I’m sure it’s illegal from a GDPR standpoint (data minimisation -- my email address is not necessary for performance of the contract).
You're viewing a single thread.
As far as I know, a customer receipt is not and has never been required. What is required is a pin receipt, but you get this when paying with a card.
As far as I know, a customer receipt is not and has never been required.
Then the interesting question is: Do tax auditors accept that if you claim a deduction for a cost where a receipt was not rendered?
What is required is a pin receipt, but you get this when paying with a card.
I find it a bit alienating that Dutch speakers often seem to refer to card payment generically as “PIN payments”. Maybe I’m missing something because PIN typically expands to personal identification number which is an authentication mechanism used for larger amounts of money. In my case it was a small enough transaction to just tap the card and use RFID to identify the card and skip authentication. But indeed I was surprised they accepted a card payment but had no printer to produce a receipt. I wonder what would have happened if my card were the older style which has no EMV and requires a hand-written signature. I probably would have been unable to pay.
BTW, strangely I see your reply in my notifications timeline but not in the thread when I visit the thread. So I’m not sure if you’ll get this reply.
(edit) I can see my own reply to you in the thread, but still not your msg in the thread (unlike the other comment from someone else that I can see fine). Seems like a strange federation issue between our nodes.
We use pinnen as a verb. Probably started while bringing it to the public with commercials. And not even being able to give a receipt sounds like it is a very badly organised restaurant , if I am honest. A store has to be able to give receipts according to the law.
Oh that's weird, I can see your replies just fine.
Then the interesting question is: Do tax auditors accept that if you claim a deduction for a cost where a receipt was not rendered?
I believe a bank transaction can also function as a receipt in that regard, but I'm not super sure about that.
And yeah, PIN in the Netherlands is actually a different thing. As I said in another reply, it's the branded name of the technology used (or something like that). It's been replaced nowadays, but that PIN logo and pinnen as a verb used to be absolutely everywhere.
I believe a bank transaction can also function as a receipt in that regard, but I'm not super sure about that.
For filing business expenses yes, for getting BTW/VAT back no. But my accountant says not to do the first either, because it's super annoying when you get an audit.
@toasterOven Signing instead of using PIN has always been a niche in the Netherlands. We basically went from cheques (which most millennials will never have used) straight to PIN cards. The “card payment available” logo is blue with the word PIN on it. All payments including the little ones used to be PIN secured until “contactless” became a thing.