Defederate Now
Defederate Now
These bigoted, ignorant scum will never listen to anything. They are politically illiterate infants with an allergic reaction to reading.
They have ruined a safe space cultivated and cared for, they have turned this place into a new reddit.
I had a dude in my private messages going on about how I was both mutilating myself and other children. Many more people on hexbear have had similar experiences, with these worthless ignorant scum popping in to deliver the political equivalent of a giant shit.
As your friends, comrades, and people you say you defend get slurred at, dehumanized, and harassed please ask yourself:
Is it worth it?
I have the answer, I know you know it as well:
No its not
I used to think otherwise
I was a fool
its not worth a few laughs
even if you dunk all you want, that doesn't take away the knife those people put in our backs.
These bigots, fascists, and NATO liberals are as worthless offline as they are here, why should we give them any attention. They are worth less than the dirt beneath our fingernails. Why should we poison ourselves with their influence? We don't make any room for them offline, why should we not online?
And really
How many essays have your written?
How many sources have you combed through?
How many times have you explained the most basic facts of reality?
How many attempts at good faith?
Only for them to dismiss it in their stupidity. They don't read it, they just crumble and divert back to the programming these little shits trust in more than God.
For every time there is a good faith user, there are a dozen scumbag fascists. And most of the time, the "good faith one" just reverts back to their old shit.
Do you really think losing any member of the hexbear or lemmygrad community, longtime members or not, is worth a few good dunks?
I don't believe a small chance of gaining a new user is worth alienating an entire section of the community. The vast majority of those idiots are lost causes. If they are interested, the can just make an account and ask in good faith.
Is posting a meme to "own the liberals" worth your comrades getting more trauma from bigots harassing them?
No its not.
you've had your laugh, but it should end
Ban them all, SJW, lemm.ee, lemmy, the programmer nazi edglords. Keep Lemmygrad.
Defederate from those communities. We shouldn't sacrifice our own for more clicks. For having to subject ourselves to the opinions of people thoroughly brainwashed? We aren't reddit. We came here to get away from that. I'm sick of this. We are sick of this.
End it now
— "This is just how it always starts, don't it? Every inch you give them, they take miles. It's the same obvious type of bullshit that the people who push these ideas through never think about. Around these parts, we take care of our own — at least, that's the way it ought to be. Last thing we need is more shitstirrers coming in here to mess with the closest thing we've carved out to something decent. Hell, we barely had ourselves sorted out before whoever-on-top opened up their cages on us." He spits. "Bunch of fucking assholes."I have been compulsively arguing in a way I haven’t in years. It’s extremely unhealthy and has effected everything from my sleep to my mood to my concentration. Please do something about all these ignorant cissies. Hexbear was fully of cis ally’s who were not only good on the issues but knew how to hang and not make shit weird.
Okay I actually have it all figured out, a solution that will make everyone else, but most importantly, me, happy.
Hexbear dederates from everyone but lemmygrad. A new instance spins up, called Chapo.chat, and federates far and wide. Hexbear federates with Chapo.chat. Hexbear users can come out into the post trenches at will but also cycle back for some lib free r&r. And I get to finally be free of being called a fuckint Hexbear.
How much is it to host one of these bad boys I'll cover it.
I'm generally pro-federation but I absolutely agree with defederating with SJW. My reason for voting to federate was that I felt that picking up a few comrades is worth dealing with all the libs. But now I can confidently say there are no comrades on SJW. I haven't seen a single cool person on there. Plus even the admins have gone off about "anti-white racism" while defending the racist Xi image. They're all shit.
The other instances have the occasional cool person which imo makes it worthwhile imo and we've been gradually moving towards some sort of understanding, like about what summons the horde. Bringing in a new set of libs sent us right back to square 1 and washed away any progress. Defederating with them would go a long way to improving things while losing absolutely nothing of value. But lemmy.ml and lemm.ee are not nearly as bad imo.
Your point about how liberals refuse to read all of the well cited responses and posts is so true. They don't engage at all, just troll and act smarmy about it while not learning a thing.
I think things chilled out a bit with everyone we federate with honestly. The new addition kicked the hornets nest again of course, but I think keeping federation is generally a good idea. We're exposing other's to new thoughts and views, and pushing back against people's default liberal ideology. Shit Just Works is probably going to defed soon anyway. Though we could always defed them first if needed.
The first week was funny, now it's annoying. The current sorting algo doesn't help either.
Nice being federated with lemmygrad tho
I had a dude in my private messages going on about how I was both mutilating myself and other children.
This is fucked. We should defed whichever instance this came from immediately
I had a dude in my private messages going on about how I was both mutilating myself and other children. Many more people on hexbear have had similar experiences, with these worthless ignorant scum popping in to deliver the political equivalent of a giant shit.
Fuck these ignorant adult babies, I'm sick of seeing their shit, I'm sick of hearing about their shit.
Yeah, sincerely been wanting to defed from libb.ee, the sh.itworks, and brogramming.dev since the get-go. I don't even get why anyone thought they were a good idea to federate with in advance. It's been awful the entire time and the only good thing was what, getting to angrypost at shitheads? If I wanted that, I'd have stayed on Reddit.
I've seen so few good posters from these places that I could count them on one hand, most of the rest of their cool people have switched over here or to the 'grad already. The rest are always welcome to join us. Other than that it's been a constant flow of the worst dreck I've seen in years. Literally the exact reason I've entirely left all social media except for Hexbear, and now we chose to enshittify ourselves and become a warzone? Nah, this fucking sucks.
On the dilemma of interacting with Reactionary views as Zoo Animals:
On reddit, during the r/chapotraphouse era, the culture there had developed into not just a general shitposting forum but an alternative and assertive socialist/leftist voice against liberal answers for socioeconomic and political issues, as well as a venue to harass and identify reactionary users and communities. As Hexbear's @Civility hypothesized three years ago, the CIA shut down r/chapotraphouse for these reasons.
After r/chapotraphouse was quarantined and banned, the users dissovled and migrated to the Discord and finally to Chapo.Chat - which became Hexbear - and formed an independent community and identity from r/cth. It became a safe space to vent and share memes, to shitpost, and find emotional (and even, at times, financial) support.
I think we should preserve this quality of Hexbear. I don't think arguing with liberals insistent on their values of qualifying the validity of our opinions and identities with conditional allegiance to institutions of capitalist hegemony and white supremacy is a valuable endeavor. Nor should we really tolerate their views, or dishonest tactics of discussion. I'd prefer to disengage with them altogether, but I suppose like many of you, I can't help but respond sometimes too.
It was fun on Reddit to "interact with the Zoo Animal" routine because Reddit is a mass media platform that is capable of propagandizing and sewing seeds of doubt into dominant political and socioeconomic narratives, and to stoke curiosity into alternative narratives, ideologies, lifestyles, and beliefs, with the hopes that those alternatives were not the fascist ones. (But it was reddit.)
This place, even the lemmy federated instances, is a closed vacuum and developed to be a safe space from bigotry, sexism, transphobia, fascism, and liberal apologia.
Then federation happened, and the people who want to treat the interaction with reactionaries as a shitposting game to interact with like zoo animals and elevate misanthropic voices back into our minds - for we read their text in our internal voice - is exasperating and humiliating. I don't want to be saturated with it outside of reddit.
Exposing ourselves and others to bigotry and liberalism is not fun. "Just log off or block them" works in the short term, but in the long term toleration of these things will deform what the community had become beforehand. Bigotry and JAQing off Liberalism isn't amusing. It's offensive.
(It's always the same defense of liberalism: whatabout Russia and China? History saw what the dissolution of the USSR wrought: millions of Russians dead from social murder. This is liberalism's goal: https://hexbear.net/comment/3734619. For Russia once more, and finally for China. After that, well always a new enemy to destroy! Never a need to reform the US!)
I think sjw really needs to be considered for defed. Maybe I'm just reading the room wrong but lemmee and ml seems to have chilled since the first week idk. I've yet to see a good take from programmer one outside of niche focused discussions on non political things (tech support, piracy ect.)
Edit: there is someone from the programmer one being chill and nice in this thread
Reopening the pipeline is great, and there are many new comrades who've found their way home to Hexbear thanks to federation. We're also probably making the rest of lemmy better by relentlessly mocking libs and chuds to the point they decide to keep their reprehensible takes to themselves. That doesn't work on all of them, but I do imagine it works more often than we'd think.
But all of this is not worth our trans and other marginalized comrades losing a space that was once almost entirely free of this bullshit. Plausibly the only such space on English speaking internet.
However, I do wonder if there are any other effective measures we can take to protect our trans comrades other than outright defederation. It would be a shame to lose the pipeline if it were possible to do something else about this. Perhaps taking away features from users on non Hexbear/Lemmygrad instances? Maybe it's feasible to remove their ability to DM Hexbear users.
Admins could also work on expanding the mod team to loosen the workload and reduce how much of this disgusting crap any one mod sees, thereby reducing mod burnout and also cleaning out the reactionary filth faster. I'm sure there are many known trustworthy Hexbear users who would be happy to join the mod team to accomplish this. Not only that, maybe we could give all users who have been active on this site for years mod-lite powers to temporarily hide potentially reactionary posts and comments made by users of other instances until an actual moderator can review it.
SJW is probably a lost cause and should be defederated anyway, but I've seen a lot of nice lemm.ee users who I would be sad to see go rather than attempting the above measures.
Defed from everything as bad or worse than blajah.zone.
Right now it kind of seems like they had extra scrutiny placed on them compared to other instances, other instances should have the same level of scrutiny
Edit: also it feels necessary to state that there are two competing interests that we should be mindful of. Maintaining hexbear as a chill place for trans people and poc vs dunking. It is obvious which one of these should be more heavily prioritized.
Letting people line up outside your house to take a hot steaming shit on the floor on the off-chance you’ll be able to convince one of them not to take a shit
The post for nominating instances to be removed from our allow-list is here: https://hexbear.net/post/277518
i feel vindicated for being wary of it from the beginning
I don't wanna defed, but I'm confused when other instances say we're doing something entirely annoying or obnoxious. The only thing I notice is that we're a lot more active.
Do they not like seeing swear words or what? I've seen lot of claims we go off topic as well. I don't really understand it. I think there might be some kind of generational gaps, because many of the other users are perhaps more middle aged, as in aged 55 and older. One user said we're like a bunch of obnoxious kids having a rave party inside a library. Another said we're like maladjusted 5 year olds on meth.
I find my hexbearians to be generally chill and well-adjusted, so what gives?
I’ve been on hexbear since the day it started (obviously not from this account) and I’m about to just give it up completely.
The bad memes alone were almost enough to make the feed unusable, but even when I’m using local only mode I have to read the worst takes imaginable from people off site.
I left Reddit when we got the boot from there and realized it was good for me, but this just feels like going back and now I can completely understand why it sucked.
Respectfully, I do disagree. I've seen a huge amount of federated users reconsider their ways with our presence. I've hung about on various account for years, but I'm not sure I want to go back to closed-loop hexbear, I forget how the minorest of things because huge pointless arguments, and now we have actual important points to correct again. The 'old' relationship was never as fun as you remember it.
Although splitting is rarely a fun idea, given that Lemmy is an all-or-nothing federation affair, maybe splitting into federated and non-federated sites is the answer.
Yeah I found it odd we federated with them. I'd not heard anything good about SJW and I gotta admit the name seemed to activate my dogwhistle senses.
I enjoyed dunking on them, but if they're going to participate in targeted harassment of individual users, then defederate we must. I'm sorry they did this to you.
sh.itjust.works loser admins: Let's have a sham thread where everyone votes for defederation but we vote no so we still get freeze peach cred
Hexbear beautiful admins: Get fucked assholes
100% agree. federation has made this site much worse with next to no benefits. @CARCOSA@hexbear.net please hold a vote on full defederation
Death to America
FWIW, I love y’all and am always delighted to see a hexbear user on the broader lemmyverse. If federation is turning what should be a safe place into a vector for harassment, though…
I'm 100% back on completely defeding from everyone. Go back to being the cool as shit site it was before. Everytine I visit it's just non stop conversation of what federations done what fucked up shit and if we should allow it or defed only to obviously defed cause these fucks are always too chuddy. I just don't see what value is being gained. We can still make anroesence on other instances and people who aren't fucks can still make accounts here and enjoy the site.
Federation has completely wrecked Hexbear. I've never been less engaged with this site, it's just not the same place anymore and that breaks my heart. And for what? How are we benefiting from sharing our space with weird nerds and chuds? Please mods, just get it the fuck together and stop the failed experiment.
Honestly I stick to local 95% of the time and it's still just frustrating to have some jackass come in and be transphobic and just derail the entire conversation. I generally try to interact in good faith if there's even an inkling, and they either pick a single line to call you out for or they'll ignore it entirely and keep going with their propagandized lines. I've had no actual positive interactions and I've seen very few positive interactions with people outside of Hexbear getting called out for their shit. How is there any room for good faith when they're saying Winnie the Pooh is literally illegal in China, given a photo of Winnie the Pooh at Shanghai Disney and just keep going? They just want to be racist reactionaries and it's making us worse having to even look at it.
I’m sorry those things happened to you.
I think these issues could be mitigated with better user- and community-level controls. If a user could restrict DMs to only users from their instance, that would have prevented the messages you received. And it would be nice if communities on an instance could opt out of federation, even if the larger instance is federated. That way we could federate @!the_dunk_tank@hexbear.net but not federate @!traaaaaaannnnnnnnnns@hexbear.net if that community is intended to serve as a safe space.
Ultimately, I support the Admins and mods decisions, the brunt of the consequences fall on them.
I’ve only been active around here a month or so, I did lurk a lot before then, so I realize I don’t have the full picture here. That said, I found Hexbear without federation to the lib instances, I found hexbear through Lemmygrad. I enjoy being part of Hexbear and being federated with Lemmygrad, the Star Trek instance, and midwest.social, I do not enjoy being federated with the general instances. One opinion among many, but I must throw mine onto the pile.
The worst instances all preemptively defed from us, or do it within a couple weeks so it’s sort of the trash taking itself out. Also, I think the Admins and mods have done an excellent job with everything. I’m just here for the good vibes, and that hasn’t gone anywhere as far I can see, and I’m sure that’s due to extra hard work from them! And our posters in the pit engaging the libs so they don’t DM target folks like me.
I definitely think Hexbear users do not deserve any harassment. I'd encourage you to name and shame these monsters. There should legit be a name and shame list on the site, the opposite of a whisper network. Admins should pass this information to other Lemmy Admins and mods and see what punitive action is taken against these people.
Communities live or die on their moderation decisions. If the admins decide that work is not worth doing, or it takes too much from their own free time, then we'll start de-federating from lemmy's that can't keep their users in line.
I feel like federation is useless if it's basically "Reddit, but run by a mostly lefty admin/ modteam" because that's ultimately still reproducing Reddit on Lemmy. Ultimately it all comes down to userbases and allowing ones with right-wing perspectives to thrive really defeats the point of making something with better politics than a website run by a mod of r/Jailbait
I like being federated with them. There are some decent people. You see them less than the bad faith ghouls because they are more apolitical.
Can we ban specific users from federated instances? They can't post on hexbear, their comments/dms don't populate over here? I think that would solve harassment problems.
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Can we make it so we can post in other instances but other instances cant post on hexbear? Our presence on the fediverse is valuable, we have unironically improved other instances by dunking on their user bases. I think long term hexbear moderators should try to preform a coup on the other moderation teams of the other websites, and if they are following any of the teachings of Lenin should slowly guide the other instances into the light of communism by acting sort of as a vanguard. I’m sorry that you are being forced to educated the lemmy chuds, that is emotional labor and you haven’t been compensated for it. It shouldn’t be our job to educate. But defederation is a bad take, we need some growth, we aren’t advocating for the internet equivalent of antinatalism.
Feels like the site has just become r/shitliberalssay.
This honestly feels like recency bias. Undeniable that lots of the shit just works crew are awful. They will be reported and banned almost completely within days. The first couple of days of the other federation push was basically like this but it quieted down real quick once the banning started. It's been like 48 hours. Things changed fast and will continue to change fast. If they don't go back to largely how they were then yes definitely defed is the right answer.
Of course nobody here wants you or anyone to feel unsafe or harassed. I don't know what the solution to that is ever though short of defederation and completely locking down new signups too so its just who we got today no exceptions forever. I think that communities like that can have value but I don't think that's really ever been the spirit of Hexbear. Mods are definitely doing a good job here I think and it'll be cleaned up fast. In the meantime tools exist for you and others to block entire instances that should largely fix the issues you're having while you wait for the mods to clean things up.
Just my two cents of course
it was nice having this space before the federation since it was a place away from that reactionary bs. esp. having a space away from all the transphobia. since like if I want to see reactionary or transphobia and such, I could just go anywhere, it's easy to find. and I feel like for those who want to debate, they can just go make accounts there? or elsewhere? while still having accounts here to. I dunno. I just hate seeing reactionary shit since it exhausting and tiring, makes me mad and upset and like. just fuck that. having a space away from all that is really nice.
Please defederate us from the
While it was interesting for a little while, I think as even our most prolific posters have gotten tired of dealing with this shit, I think I correctly identified what was going to happen.
I'm relatively new here, so with that context in mind... I'm glad I was able to find out this place exists after it disappearing on
but even so, opening to federation like this should not come at the cost of our trans comrades and comrades of color. I'm all for defeding from all but grad (and maybe lemmy.ml), as well as keeping applications in place for the foreseeable future. People are well aware of this place by now; Those that want to participate will find a way, or lurk as they learn.I don't quite know. It's on the one hand pretty obvious these people are complete assholes, but on the other bullying assholes is sort of what makes all this fun, and there's a lot of of other users we reach out to, and some, I assume, are good people.
I think mods should just use the banhammer much more freely, but that's been my wish since federation. Used to be almost any use of bigoted language got you banned, that's not the case anymore. It's pretty obvious we're back in the era of daily wreckers, and that requires more strict moderation. I think I'd like to see that, before I see anything else happen.Speaking to the essays and sources: I agree, it's tiring. Perhaps we should use some effort as a community to make carrds on the most common stuff - Tianamen, Ukrainian Nazis, genocide in the Donbass, Ukraine losing the war, double genocide theory, that sort of stuff. I've oftentimes just linked to @robinn2@hexbear.nets carrd on xinjiang. It's a pretty good way to figure out if people are acting in good faith or nah.
Edit: I should also say that the most important thing is that Hexbear is an open and inclusive space, and what @Catradora_Stalinism@hexbear.net experienced is not ok. I'm not at all opposed to defederating, I personally would just like to see if there is another solution available beforehand, but I wanna be clear and say that I am not voting for or against anything with this post - I don't really think it's my place to decide to what extent the safe space that Hexbear has grown to be, should be managed.
Speaking as a member of the ND-community I gotta say the ableism these last few days have been tiring, but what really gets to me is users not being banned. I'm used to people using autistic as a slur or -tard as an insult, I'm just not used to these things being handled this leniently. There's a lot of SJW users that do some playground style "oh I didn't actually say the thing, so it doesn't count" which should just be an immediate ban. In general I think there's way too much debate pervetry around. I still wanna see if there is some other solution than defederation, but I understand if our queer comrades feel differently. I don't know if there been a lot of racism - apart from the very clearly racist image in their anti-lemmygrad comm - but like from individual users that is. It's not really for me to say either.If we're taking account of opinions I'll throw my hat in with defederation. The entire value of Chapochat and hexbear was its existence as a chill place. I understand many people wanted to go back to and enjoy the old sub days but what hexbear was is completely different. I've been around for a long time and don't post much, gotta say I'm not a big fan of the changes.
Between threatening dms (which were generally a rare existence pre-federation) and overall trolling and toxicity, I really think we took a step back.
I don't see myself browsing much with federation being a thing.
Ever since federation, I have been thinking about this idea:
What if we defed from every instance minus the cool ones like lemmygrad but designate a week/month/day/whatever as federation week/month/day/whatever where we federate with every instance and I mean every instance, even that Nazi one, for the purpose of fucking shit up? I think this has many pros:
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It satisfies people who want to dunk on libs and the fash. Federation Friday (or other time equivalent) being a thing means dunkers can also converse their load before blowing it all on Federation Friday.
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People from marginalized communities can choose to skip Friday (or other time equivalent), but have the rest of the time on Hexbear without loser Ledditors harshing our vibe.
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It still connects Hexbear to the rest of the Fediverse so that we aren't completely isolated and can provide an escape for marginalized people from the other instances. Federation Friday might reach a level of notoriety to the point where the rest of the Fediverse anticipate Federation Friday.
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It is a pressure valve for people here. People here love to hype the pre-federation era, but I mostly saw it as filled with pointless struggle sessions like whether bidets are petty bourgeois. And I gotta say, those pointless struggle sessions mostly disappeared with federation. Personally, I don't like struggle sessions that aren't actually meaningful like pronoun flairs because they just lead to people here being bitter and low-key hostile with each other. Being exposed to loser Ledditors remind us that for all our faults, at least we aren't Ledditors.
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federation is a hopelessly techbrained idea in the first place.
the whole dream is that it frees people from censorship and eliminates single points of failure by letting you move freely through the fediverse from anywhere. except it turns out that the work of moderators is a huge value add that people actually want, and even for that reason alone it turns out to matter quite a lot which home instance you choose
what real problem does this architecture solve? users are still subject to unaccountable admin decisions, but now this extends beyond the hex admin team to others we don't necessarily trust. comms still die if instances get shut down.
redfash centralization stays winning
Yes. Anyone who is good on those instances will come over after we defederate.
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>ctrl+f "worker" NOT FOUND.
I think while redditors lean towards PMC class antagonists (the Mastodon dorks have no problem with liberalism, they only hate social media because of tHe AlGoRiTm is ruining their freedom of choice as an individual consumer in the marketplace. Pure Reaganite Liz Warren ideology lol) there are sitll some ignorant working class who should be funneled towards God's eternal Marxist Leninist grace and forgiveness.
Ban them all, SJW, lemm.ee, lemmy, the programmer nazi edglords. Keep Lemmygrad.
lol what a punchline
I think federation is a net good. I don't care about dunking on bad takes, but federation has increased good engagement on non-dunk posts overall.
I still barely understand what this federation business was about and at this point im too afraid to ask
I agree. It's made things worse
I don't particularly care either way. I haven't really had much time lately to shit browse and post so I don't know what's going on
I think being with several instances has been a little much. Imo we stick with lemmy.ml and lemmygrad but defed from everyone else. I haven’t been as online but they don’t seem that bad
Please do.
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HOW DARE THEY tell us that we are wrong! How dare they tell us that there is an ongoing genocide in Xinjiang and that the USSR murdered millions in the Holodomor. How dare they tell us that there aren't in fact free and fair elections in North Korea. How dare they tell us that we cannot ignore genocide so plainly! We want to use Plorewiki, not wikipedia! We are the victims here! We definitely are not actively supporting a Tzar who launched an unprovoked invasion of a young, democratic nation. To the Gulags, Nazis!
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