Elektrek: "Tesla FSD Beta tried to kill me last night"

Auto pilot beta? People are willing to test betas for cars? Are you insane? Insurance is going to have a field day.
- What bothers me is, I have to drive on the road with people running some braindead Elon Musk software?
  
  Have you seen how humans drive? Its not a very high bar to do better.
- From what i read, Auto Pilot (AP) is just to keep u on your lane while Full Self Driving (FSD) just switches lanes into oncoming traffic.
  
  Funny how George Hotz of Comma.ai predicted this exact same issue years ago: "if I were Elon Musk I would not have shipped that lane change".
  This issue likely arises as the cars sensors can not look "far enough ahead" on the lane it changes to. Which can lead to crashes from behind due to much faster cars and in this case lane confusion aa the car can not see oncoming traffic.
- Even better, several people have died using it or killed someone else. It also has a long history of driving underneath semi truck trailers. Only Europe was smart enough to ban this garbage.
  
  FSD has never driven under a truck, that was autopilot, which is an LKAS system. The incident happend 1 year prior to "Navigate on autopilot" so the car in question was never even able to change lanes on its own. The driver deliberately instructed the car to drive into the trailer.
  FSD beta is currently available in most of Europe and has been for several months.
- The craziest part of the article is just how much effort the author put into collecting data and filing feedback and really really hoping that Tesla could pull the videos (they can), then went on to actively try and succeeded in recreating the problem at high speed next to another car.
- Not Auto Pilot (AP). There's a difference between FSD and AP. AP will just keep you between the lane lines and pace the car in front of you. It can also change lanes when told to. There's also Enhanced Auto Pilot (EAP). EAP was supposed to bridge the gap between AP and FSD. It would go "on ramp to off ramp". So it could switch lanes as needed and get to exit ramps. FSD is the mode where you shouldn't need to touch it outside of answering the nag (the frequent nag to "apply force to the steering wheel" to tell it you are still alive and paying attention)*.
  '* At least I think that's the same for FSD. I'm only on AP with AP1 hardware. Never had an issue that I'd blame on a "bug" or the software doing something "wrong".
  
  It’s the beta part that scares me the most, the type of assistance isn’t really relevant. People shouldn’t be driving around in betas. These aren’t phones.

“Some of you may die, but it’s a risk I’m willing to take.” - Lord Farquaad and Musk
- Musquaad
- "Run, run, run, as fast as you can. You can't catch me. I'm the gingerbread man!"
- I mean... They opted into a beta. Beta means this may happen.
  
  Even if those dipshits "opted in," the rest of us sharing the road sure as Hell didn't!
  
  This isn't just some email web app that may have a few bugs, it's putting lives at risk on the road. They shouldn't be able to just label it a beta, overpromise its capabilities, and neglect any responsibility.
  
  I guarantee that the other drivers on that road didn't opt for a "beta".
  
  I just can't understand how regulators all over the world allow these things on the road. How the fuck do you allow the release of potentially deadly (for everyone involved, not just for the user) software en masse for the public to beta test for you... This is not Diablo IV....
  
  Beta only means buggy piece of shit to people who use software and then mostly gamers. In industries where prototypes can kill people a "beta" product is one that is safe for the intended use. For example, if you invented a new way to do internal scans of people, before you can even test it on humans you would have done extensive testing on animals to know what works, what doesn't, and what gives them cancer, and have done the modelling to have a strong understanding on if it is safe with humans.
  Nobody would tolerate a scanner that gave people cancer, oops

I'm not especially sympathetic to the Tesla drivers this might kill.
I'm worried about everyone else.
- I consider the suicide attempts a feature. I'll test for you, Tesla.

It shouldn't have even been released for normal people to use it in daily life, in real roads full of other cars. This poses a big life risk if you ask me, I hope countries start banning this feature soon otherwise many more other deaths will happen, and Elon somehow will get away with them. What's so hard about driving a real car manually? Did you all become fatass lazy people that don't even have the willpower to drive a car? Ridiculous. ML is experimental and for a machine, it's amazing, but it isn't as good as a human YET, thus causing life threatening accidents. FSD literally is still in beta, and people are driving full speed in roads with this beta software.
- It can't be used in the EU. It would need to pass a review, Elon have claimed they are close to getting it through but Elon says a lot of things.
  
  Self-driving cars are actually only legal in a few countries. And those countries have tests.
  It's only the United States that just lets anyone do what everyone earth it is that they want, even if it's insanely dangerous.
  Everywhere else any car company that's espousing self-driving tech would actually have to prove that it is safe, and only a few companies have managed to do this and even then the cars are limited to predefined areas where they are sure they're not going to come across difficult situations.
  
  In its current state it has basically no chance IMO.
  If they'd concentrated in making AP/Highway driving smarter first they might have got that through.. there are already rules for that.. but cities? I'd love to see the autonomous car that could drive through London or Manchester.
- Humans did not evolve to drive cars. ML did. It drives consistently with no distractions. It is never tired, drunk, or experiences road rage. It has super human reaction time and can see in a full 360 degrees. It is not about being a lazy fatass it is about safety. Hundreds of people in the US were killed in car accidents just today, and none of them were from self driving cars.
  Also please provide an example of a life threatening accident cause by FSD.
  
  The article listed 2 life threatening near accidents that were only prevented because the person behind the wheel took over and kicked out FSD. Read the article and then comment.
  
  Self driving is not there, and it may never get there, but you are right. We can save so many lives if we get this right.
  I dont know is Musk is responsible enough to be the one to get us there though.

Lol who would trust their life to Elon Musk? 🤣
- idiots and losers
- Well, this article is written by FredTesla who use to mod the TeslaMotors subreddit. Not only did he drink the koolaid, he brewed the damn stuff.

This is like that show "Upload"; the guy literally gets killed by a car
- You should finish watching that first episode before making such bold statements.
  
  I mean I think its still a valid point. The car in the show was sabotaged, and that is definitely something that might be a thing once all cars self-drive. Especially once they remove controls like steering wheels.
  There hasn't been a tesla FSD hack yet, but it would take spoofing a software update (and spoof the authentication and certs, etc)... The attacker would need to have access to a pretty massive supercomputer to make their own custom self-driving software and today getting the certs and everything right is next to impossible... but even then its only next to impossible, not impossible.
- That was a really good show.
- Well hold on there, he survived the crash, and would probably have been ok. It was the upload that killed him.
  
  Yeah, my bad 🤣 I meant the car technically endangered him to not live longer 😔

Frankly, it speaks incredibly poorly to the NHTSA that this kind of behavior is allowed. "Beta testing" a machine learning driving assistance feature on active highways at 70+ miles an hour is a recipe for disaster. Calling it Full-Self Driving while also not having guardrails on its behavior is false advertising as well as just plain dangerous.
- NHTSA hasn't had a permanent director in years.
  I think NHTSA had a director for like... 2 or 3 months in 2022. But before that, it was blocked in the Senate. And before-before that, it was Elaine Chao's Department of Transportation and she was incredibly anti-regulation.
  Step 1 is that the citizens need to recognize what has happened to the federal apparatus. We've gutted our own government and safety regulators. Not just NHTSA, but also SEC, FTC, etc. etc. The anti-regulators / libertarians have the momentum with regards to laws in the past decade, and this is the natural result.

FFS. He was testing a beta update at 73 miles per hour. Is he really expecting sympathy?
- Maybe it shouldnt be released for real world use with such major bugs then. Dont give me the crap that iTs DiFfErEnT because tesla is a "technology company" either. Its a car, safety features on it should work damn near 100% of the time before it is released.
  
  What crap am I giving? I'm just saying it's a stupid idea to beta test self driving technology on the highway.
- I thought all FSD updates were beta updates? Did I miss the announcement of FSD going GA and being stable?
  If that's the case, then yeah I probably wouldn't test run a new update on the highway first. But I also have no idea if this issue happens at lower speeds as well.
  
  Isn't that the issue? He's using something that's still in beta on the highway.

Electrek has a long history of anti tesla clickbait. Take this with a grain of salt.
Teslas are factory equipped with a 360 degree dashcam yet we never see any footage of these alleged incidents.
- Are you kidding me? Youtube is full of Tesla FSD/Autopilot doing batshit crazy things.
  
  so can you provide a link of an accident caused by FSD?
- Wishful thinking that Tesla would publicly distribute footage of an accident caused by one of their cars...
  
  Its saved on to a thumb drive. any user can pull off and use or post the footage anywhere. It never gets uploaded to tesla, only snapshots and telemetry.
  lol the anti tesla crew will downvote even the most basic facts.
- I saw the videos of them running over infants in strollers. Does that count?
  
  The ones from that guy who runs his own competing autonomous driving company who also refused to allow anyone else to perform the test with the car (which was all proven to be bullshit later because he was hitting the accelerator pedal)? There's a lot of misinformation and FUD floating around out there.
  
  on FSD? link please
- Bud, we've seen literally thousands of videos of this happening, even from the Tesla simps. You're seven years behind on your talking points.
  
  FSD has only been out for less than 3 years.
  
  Can you link a few? Something where FSD directly or indirectly causes an accident?
- Given your posts and rampant Tesla fanboyism, I honestly wouldn't be surprised if you're Elon himself just anxiously trying to save face.
  Then again, Elon would just publicly sprout misinformation about it all so it probably isn't. Still, surprising that people are just so obsessed with Tesla they can't take the bad with the good.
  
  all im asking for is some evidence of the bad. Nobody can provide it. It really shouldn’t be that hard.
- Ah yes, there's no readily available footage of the dead bodies flying into the street or being crushed under the wheels so it's made up. Of course.
  
  not all accidents are that violent. I would even accept a video of a simple fender bender to prove that FSD beta causes accidents with any sort of frequency. Those should be pretty common if FSD is dangerous as a lot of people are implying, right?
- Hilariously I’ve also seen them accused of a pro-Tesla bias. Personally I think they are pretty balanced.
  
  They are for sure not balanced. Alfred might have become more realistic about Elon and his bullshit for guarantee he would never get his roadster. That doesn't mean he's balanced.
  
  They do whatever gets them clicks. Facts do not matter.