System76 or Framework laptop?
System76 or Framework laptop?
Look, we know System76 laptops are based as fuck. I mean, Coreboot, Open source firmware, PopOS, and a fucking open source mobo in the works, just so fucking based.
But man, these framework laptops look cool too. Completely modular and easy to work on. Looks like the company has proved it isn't going to go under anytime soon.
I'm debating what to get once I feel like upgrading from the trusty ol ThinkPad. What would you buy?
I have a framework 12th gen. It's great. Fantastic build quality and when I want to upgrade, I don't need a whole new laptop, just the necessary internal components. I can even switch to AMD!
Coreboot is cool, and I can't wait to see the new system76 laptop that is being built in-house, but until that comes out, I don't think I would ever consider the current lineup of system76 computers.
My main motivations are repairability, upgradability, and specificity of components, and system76 just doesn't offer that. They don't tell you what ram or SSD models go into your laptop, they don't sell replacement parts, and there is no upgrade path.
I bought a Framework DIY. I live in regional Australia and being able to order parts to install myself and extend the longevity of my system was decisive. The Framework was a compromise on specs and wasn't my first choice but nothing compares for sustainability and serviceability. I sourced ram and nvme locally and installed Arch.
System76 are a bit of a fantasy for me. I looked at them for years but I don't want to pay a premium then deal with international RMA on a rebadged Clevo. I always bought whatever looked good in locally available Windows laptops instead before Framework.
Now I am in the ecosystem I very selfishly want Framework to succeed and guarantee my access to upgrades and parts. I respect System76's mission and understand why people would wish to support them, particularly when their own laptop designs start shipping. System76's focus on North America and dependence on white box laptops hasn't delivered as well in my opinion, at least for my needs.
System76 have tried hard to improve openness and repairability but their laptops are still disposable at end of life while Framework have made a huge leap with upgradability that has the potential to reduce ewaste and I want to see how far that model can be pushed.
I will never choose system76, they are strictly murica-centric (until the name lol) and don't respect their potential customers from the rest of the world. Almost all of their laptops are simply clevo with another logo, but even then they don't deign to offer something as extremely basic as keyboards in other languages, even if they are available from their vendor.
Also, in the stores that preset linux there is usually a bad quality-price ratio, but system76 is particularly expert in this. Special mention to the mediocre mechanical keyboard (only for murica, obviously) they designed, 200-300$.
The only good thing I can currently say about them is that they have some open firmware (coreboot, basically), but it's not even that remarkable. Not only are there several companies in the competition that also do it, but it's even the case of tiny ones with a couple of employees like novacustom.
I think using a framework is a unique experience. I don't worry about breaking it nearly as much as I did with my old thinkpads. Like my hardware key shorted itself and took my usb port with it. But, instead of it costing me a new laptop, it was 1 week, ~$10, and I was back in business.
Also, Linux support has been great so far. The only thing I had to do was install the brightness stuff they document.
I also heard they're working on coreboot, so that may be a thing. Also the fact that the motherboard is released to all repair shops is quite nice (at least there is some potential for some type of community audit).
Also, the laptop is super slick. The only complaint I have is maybe the battery life, but I'm not on the newest generation, and I don't know what has changed. Highly recommend.
As someone who has been plagued by broken, hard to repair laptops before, I went for the Framework Laptop. Of course, your needs and wants might be different.
System 76 laptops are probably a bit better for Linux considering they were built specifically for it. They also have more variety in what kind of laptop you can get, whereas the Framework only comes in a 13 inch "ultrabook" form factor and a future 16 inch gaming laptop. And battery life I believe is a bit better than the Framework.
However, Framework still works really well with Linux (I use Linux Mint on mine, and it works great.) And the flexibility in being able to repair, upgrade and customize your laptop is really nice. Plus, the battery thing is slowly but surely getting fixed, and while it's still not entirely great, it has gotten me through the day as a computer science student.
I got a System76 laptop in 2018, and it was a huge disappointment. Had to return it after a couple days because it stopped working, and they wanted my credit card info again before they'd ship me a replacement. The screen is awful and has a purple tint to it, and not all the features worked on Linux for the first year I had it.
If I wanted that level of frustration, a Windows laptop with similar specs would have been half the price.
I don't think you can go wrong with either. But I love that I can swap my ports around on my framework laptop. Especially after my display port got broken last year (cable got snagged). Instead of it being damaged until I replaced the laptop, I ordered a new module for $20.
Eta: I'd love to see a partnership between them in the future.
My next laptop will be a Framework. I like the idea of not being frustrated at the ports because I can just swap the ones I need in, and I like repairability, upgrades that reduce e-waste, and not having to buy things like the SSD with the computer if I can find better gear/prices elsewhere. I respect what System 76 do but Framework wins for my use case.
I have a Framework and it's been an amazing device! As a company, they have definitly followed through with their promises too and I've been very satisfied with them. I've heard that System76 devices are fine too, and they have nice stuff like coreboot and lvfs, which Framework lacks right now, but they aren't nearly as unique as Frameworks, and in my view, are a bit generic. I would definetly reccomend the Framework! Just note that you may have to wait a while to get one, so if you need a new laptop asap (which it sounds like you don't), you may have to look elsewhere. If you can wait though, definitly get a Framework!
I believe frameworks firmware is open source as well. If money was no object I'd go framework. Modularity and reparability are unmatched. I love that I can just take the camera and microphone physically out of the laptop with ease. I really wanted to get the 16 but its just simply out of my budget. Hoping the price will come down over the next few years.
My Framework Laptop experience was really poor. Battery life was impossibly bad, Linux support was not as stellar as promised, the thing had the loudest fan I've ever heard, & my entire mainboard died & it took support 2 weeks to diagnose the issue. I'd go System76. I went with a Mac for Apple Silicon, & I'm going to try Asahi Linux soon
I’m not trying to start shit, but someone’s gotta ask:
With all the bad experiences itt from owners of both companies products, why not just get a thinkpad or mbp? You can still get socketed everything in the t and p series and eventually there’ll be Linux on the m1&2.
I could see buying framework or s76 if you were getting a good open laptop but at the place both companies products seem to be why not buy a known good computer and donate some money to whatever group is doing the work you wanna see done?
I bought a System76 Lemur a few years ago. It has a pretty standard ultra-book form factor, but is pretty light, and the battery life was phenomonal. I regularly got 20+ hours on a single charge when doing light development work. The IPS screen was good, the trackpad was nice, the keyboard was ok, and the speakers are... well, completely terrible. I never really had any software issues on it running Pop. Maybe it would get stuck coming out of suspend every few months or so? I liked it a lot as an upgrade from my 2013 MacBook Air.
BUT....
Support was pretty awful, and I'm not sure I'd recommend getting one because of it unfortunately. :( Out of the box, the ctrl key was bad and would unclip with a nasty "crunch" noise. I had to send it in to get that fixed, though it was pretty painless. Then a few months later the wifi card died, and I had to send it in again. There was a lot of back and forth to get it fixed that time. Then as it was about to got out of warranty it died again. This time was like pulling teeth. I had to triple check things and send them logs multiple times, each time with a turnaround of several days. It took weeks for them to finally say "sounds like a hardware issue, what would you like us to do?". I was flabergasted. It was still in warranty, why would you even ask that?! I spent several weeks trying to convince them my in warranty device needed repairs and they wanted to know if I wanted it fixed?! It took 6 weeks in total to get it fixed, and it turned out that it was a bad connector on the motherboard causing the issues the whole time. When I got it back it was missing a couple screws and the power supply. They basically called me a liar. -_- A couple weeks ago it died completely and won't power on anymore. I chatted with support again, but they just started giving me the same run-around. I gave up.
I pre-ordered an AMD Framework back in March. Now I'm kinda grumpy because I have no laptop and I bought one that might not ship for another month or two. I wasn't too worried if the AMD Framework had some early adopter issues as the Lemur still worked when I put in the pre-order. Grrr. -_- My old 2013 MacBook Air is still in pristine condition though... Considering just putting Linux on that to use for a few months.
I've only owned a System76 laptop and they are alright. Framework would be my next choice for sure.
Did FW ever solve the issue with battery drain during sleep? I owned one of the original batch and sold it because I couldn't effectively use it as a laptop. Other than that it was awesome, great build quality, loved the ethics of it and the form factor, but being unable to use it as a portable computer was a deal breaker.
Another option you may or may not be aware of is Tuxedo Computers which seem to be a more premium option. I have no experience with them but they look pretty sweet.
besides choosing between the 2 great options, I'm like... : C'MON JUST PICK ONE AND SEND IT TO ME XD because they do not make shipments in my country 😥
Framework: a cool mf swippy swapper. Oh, and here's a Segway to our sponsor! Lttstore.com!
I've got the S76 Pangolin. It's the best laptop I've ever had, but still lacks on the GPU and upgradability. I had to replace my fan once already too, and it cost over 100$ to get the exact component shipped.
S76 is fine, maybe even good, but my next device will be a Framework for sure.
@MashingBundle #TUXEDOComputers is what I advise for linux focused laptops.
As someone who is a die-hard linux user who would never even consider using windows, I would never even consider a system76 over a framework, honestly.
I got a framework 12th gen Intel. I love it. One flaw is their board design with batch 5 and 6 boards can drain the RTC battery dead so you need to jump start it with a dumb USB brick on one side and fast on the other. I just got a RMA board from them no cost and I think it was my fault (plugged something into USBC port that I should not have). The big downside is not everything works perfectly like something from Microsoft when using windows OS. There isn't the army of developers for the hardware and stuff. Idk. I love mine. It is hard to justify buying another laptop when there are upgradable options.