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Kamala Harris's history before the 2024 Election.

Much credit to this post.

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  • Well worth it to actually click through and read some of the specific articles on topics of interest. The descriptions are not all accurate.

    • Such as?

      • Many of these are about a case of a man supposedly throwing a knife under a car, for instance. "A crime he didn't commit" is inaccurate, it remained very much in question.

        https://laist.com/news/kpcc-archive/san-fernando-valley-man-s-freedom-hangs-in-appeal

        Really, I recommend reading through any that strike your interest, and not simply trusting the one-shot summaries provided by a random person on the internet.

        • Many of these are about a case of a man supposedly throwing a knife under a car, for instance.

          So far as I can tell, a single bullet point is about this, just with multiple links.

          "A crime he didn't commit" is inaccurate, it remained very much in question.

          It's a claim straight from one of the links and I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that a conviction based solely on cop testimony, later contradicted by other witnesses, with an incompetent defending lawyer that was later disbarred, is plenty enough to make that claim.

          Really, I recommend reading through any that strike your interest, and not simply trusting the one-shot summaries provided by a random person on the internet.

          Sure, but read them critically and not with a pro-cop bias.

          • It was also a point of at least one of the other bullets.

            Also need to read them without an anti-cop bias, it's about conflicting witnesses. This puts the case into question based on an unbiased reading of the evidence at hand.

            Definitely read them critically, certainly. But remove all bias, not just pro-cop bias. There's a whole bunch of nuance in the handful I clicked on that the pithy shorts neglect or outright spin.

            • It was also a point of at least one of the other bullets.

              It was mentioned in a summary article of Kamala's reactionary behavior as AG that is at the head of the other bullet points about this. It was a small part of a summary article that is entirely correct in its thesis.

              You are being misleading in your criticisms and should retract your false framing of OP's post.

              Also need to read them without an anti-cop bias

              No I don't. An anti-cop bias means being correct about power structures and, in this case, why you cannot trust them to tell the truth in court, let alone as the primary or sole evidence for guilt. In contrast, a pro-cop bias suggests either naivete or knowing sympathy with the legalized gang boot.

              it's about conflicting witnesses.

              It's about the primary evidence being the claims of two cops that were later contradicted by other witnesses (one of whom was also a cop!), the incompetent atyorney and the impact it had on the defense, like I said. Please address what I actually said, this is becoming repetitive and you are saying things already contradicted by myself and the articles in question. You read them, right? You recommended everyone do so. Why are you mischaracterizing them by omitting important information?

              I didn't even mention how this reflects on Harris, who used a technicality to keep harassing this person rather than address or accept the material facts.

              This puts the case into question based on an unbiased reading of the evidence at hand.

              It puts the conviction and its fundamental basis into question, making it spurious. That is, unless you have the misapprehension that cops don't routinely lie in their reports and in court. It is laughable to take the original case seriously.

              Definitely read them critically, certainly. But remove all bias, not just pro-cop bias.

              It speaks to a status quo naivete to presume the best position is one "without bias". That is not only an impossible thing, it is a counter-productive thing to persue. Are you going to read the article without a language bias, where the words could mean anything or something, it is all the same to you? Will you be reading the case without a temporal bias? Maybe the events happened in a totally different order, who knows! Maybe 27 years is actually a day. Understanding the world and its systems necessitates bias.

              Such as that a case built on the testimony of two cops is, to make it simple, horseshit.

              There's a whole bunch of nuance in the handful I clicked on that the pithy shorts neglect or outright spin.

              Given that you were wrong and misleading about this one, I am not optimistic about this, but feel free to share your other critical readings.

              • I am not being misleading at all, this is strongly slanted content.

                Your "correct about power structures" betrays you. I think it is quite reasonable to see even police as individuals, capable of individual action. To me it's testimony of two against two. The defense attorney's incompetence is another issue entirely, but does not make the man innocent. Maybe he threw the knife, maybe he did not. Until we get a better answer in court, that's all we've got.

                I really don't think we need to consider temporal bias, unless this happened in low light conditions. Nor language bias. Simply bias towards the witnesses. You are disregarding two of them due to your own perceptions of structural power, I am disregarding none of them. I prefer my way. The rest of your rhetoric is rather silly.

                I read a few of these this morning, and saw legitimate cause for concern. I do not recall which specific ones I clicked on though, I tried to pick a handful at random. Regardless, a cautioning to be wary about internet spin is far from misleading, and this is definitely spun. I strongly suspect you simply like the spin out of an acab position, which I clearly do not ascribe to. You can call me naive if you like, I am certainly aware of the incentives for police to get convictions. I do not find such a position sufficient to simply disregard all police testimony, however. That simply should not be good enough, regardless of your philosophical leanings.

                • I am not being misleading at all, this is strongly slanted content.

                  I have explained how your claim is misleading twice now and you have not responded to that.

                  Your "correct about power structures" betrays you.

                  Betrays me how? You never elaborate on this later on.

                  I think it is quite reasonable to see even police as individuals, capable of individual action.

                  And yet the system produces a legalized gang that watches each others' backs and routinely lies on reports and on the stand. You can't just ignore that reality away, though clearly you would like to because knowing that cops are unreliable witnesses against defendants blows up the entirety of the prosecurion's case. It is an absurd thing, and gullible, to think that cops' testimony is enough to presume any level of guilt.

                  To me it's testimony of two against two.

                  "If you stop making me think about context and facts, it's simple, really! My position is nuanced!" lmfao

                  The defense attorney's incompetence is another issue entirely

                  No it is not. It also undermines the original conviction, highlights the cruelty of Harris' intervention, and provides a hint at the systemic issues re: the criminal punishment system that should lead you to have a less pro-cop, pro-prosecutor bias.

                  but does not make the man innocent. Maybe he threw the knife, maybe he did not. Until we get a better answer in court, that's all we've got.

                  The burden of proof is on the positive claimant. Claims of crimes are not, by default, ambiguously true just because they are prosecuted or because there is cop testimony. Your logic is that of the southern white lynch mob.

                  And it reflects poorly on your comments, not on OP. You should withdraw your claim and apologize.

                  I really don't think we need to consider temporal bias [...]

                  I was obviously being absurd on purpose in both cases. Bias is inherent to having a correct understanding of something. The problem here is not bias at all, it's being biased towards cops and prosecutors. You should be biased against them in these examples as they have a poor track record and it is for systemic reasons. And, to boot, they were contradicted by others, including another cop. This normally puts a huge target on the back of a "snitch". See how useful bias is? It means you understand the forces at work and can judge the value of actions in context.

                  Simply bias towards the witnesses. You are disregarding two of them due to your own perceptions of structural power, I am disregarding none of them. I prefer my way. The rest of your rhetoric is rather silly.

                  I have actually listed at least 6 arguments around this, from different aspects of the case, and you have ignored nearly all of them. Noting the irrationality of your problem bias is just one part of explaining one of those angles.

                  Because I think you have forgotten, I will remind you that you are claiming the OP is being misleading and that the content of the articles does not match the claims, listing one example so far (and in a different misleading way, as I have noted twice!): that it isn't kosher to say an innocent man was convicted (despite one of the articles saying this verbatim), that it is actually ambiguous and man, you just can't tell. I will add a 7th argument: you are entirely missing the real point of those articles anyways, which is that Harris stepped in to harass this man in a technicality, i.e. the exact timing of challenges and the presentation of witnesses.

                  The rest of your rhetoric is rather silly.

                  Oh dear.

                  I read a few of these this morning, and saw legitimate cause for concern.

                  Yet you have only listed one example and didn't even characterize it right in its basic framing, as it was only stated in one bullet point.

                  I do not recall which specific ones I clicked on though, I tried to pick a handful at random.

                  By this I will take it to mean you refuse to provide more examples despite claiming to have them.

                  Regardless, a cautioning to be wary about internet spin is far from misleading, and this is definitely spjn.

                  Only if you are biased towards cops and prosecutors and do things like, say, try to remove context from consideration or look at the case in its totality because that would contradict your narrative. You don't see the irony in this behavior while decryjng "internet spin"?

                  I strongly suspect you simply like the spin out of an acab position, which I clearly do not ascribe to.

                  Feel free to respond directly to what I say and ask questions and you might be able to make accurate conclusions about my positions.

                  You can call me naive if you like, I am certainly aware of the incentives for police to get convictions.

                  And this describes the totality of your understanding of how much and why cops lie in reports and in court?

                  I do not find such a position sufficient to simply disregard all police testimony, however. That simply should not be good enough, regardless of your philosophical leanings.

                  I will take that as a "yes" to my question.

                  • No, you've tried, but all you've got is acab. That's not good enough. My assessment stands.

                    Certainly, cops do sometimes lie, no question. In a country with millions of police officers, though, the anecdotal accounts your media is likely flooded with are insufficient, as is your faith in a single structural philosophy. The fact of the matter is that police give thousands of testimonies every day, some are true, some are false. It makes no sense to simply disregard police testimony as a default. While I doubt we have actual statistics on something so complex, I find it very unlikely that police are lying more often than not. We should note, though, that when they're being honest, you will not hear news of it, because its not newsworthy. This skews your perceptions.

                    You're also neglecting that this individual had previous convictions and had just been in a bar fight. Clearly a violent man. While yes, it was cruel to keep him locked up during the appeals process, I don't dispute that, I do dispute the characterization that he should still be presumed innocent. Could the additional two witnesses have swayed the decision? Maybe. That's the best we have. To presume they would have is inappropriate though, and there is valid reason to keep him behind bars while the process plays out.

                    I clearly disagree that we should automatically be biased against police testimony. All witness testimony should be considered with a certain measure of doubt, but I would need some harder data to convince me police testimony is false a statistically significant amount of the time.

                    You've now listed a long string of arguments, but you didn't earlier, you're mischaracterizing. Your previous comment can be summed up entirely with four words: You don't trust cops. This is fine, but I have higher standards. I neither trust nor distrust them by default, I sit between the two. I am willing to accept their testimony in this case.

                    Oh dear?

                    When I get around to reading news articles again, likely tomorrow morning, I'll provide you a few more and we can resume this. For now though, correct, I am not going to go back through them.

                    I'm not interested in a systemic discussion with you, is what that means. I know full well we'd be going back and forth for quite some time, given the strength of your beliefs. Given that I do not think a systems-basef view captures even most of the necessary information, I would find the exercise rather pointless.

                    You certainly like your pithy comebacks, but I prefer a more rigorous and colder logic. Ultimately, the man was a danger, and this was an appropriate exercise of prosecutorial power.

                    • No, you've tried, but all you've got is acab.

                      Please do your best to act in good faith. I have, obviously, laid out several lines of thought and my rationale is not a slogan. It's important to be honest even if you disagree with someone. I would say it is even more important than otherwise, as that is when you will be most tempted to check out.

                      And remember, your thesis here is that OP was being misleading. Do you see the hypocrisy?

                      Certainly, cops do sometimes lie, no question.

                      Cops lie systemically and for reasons with root causes. Students of criminal justice know that cop testimony is among the least reliable information in any case.

                      In a country with millions of police officers, though, the anecdotal accounts your media is likely flooded with are insufficient [...]

                      Just straw man after straw man. I have already replied, at length, with my own positions. Ask yourself why you are making up positions and actions on my behalf while ignoring what I said. Do you think that is a moral thing for you to be doing?

                      If you'd like to criticize being skeptical of cop testimony, you should either educate yourself on what people actually say about this or ask me and I might, generously, take some time to explain despite this bad faith behavior.

                      This skews your perceptions.

                      You have invented a fiction of what I do and are now drawing conclusions from it like a gotcha, lmao.

                      You're also neglecting that this individual had previous convictions and had just been in a bar fight.

                      The felony was for possession of an illegal weapon.

                      Clearly a violent man.

                      If you applied this poor logic consistly you would be a very racist person.

                      I do dispute the characterization that he should still be presumed innocent.

                      I will remind you that Harris used a technicality on timing rather than actually arguing against the merits of overturning the conviction. There is a reason for that. Think critically.

                      Could the additional two witnesses have swayed the decision? Maybe. That's the best we have.

                      No, I have already laid out a series of points that, together, show how absurd this conclusion is. You are just ignoring them.

                      To presume they would have is inappropriate though, and there is valid reason to keep him behind bars while the process plays out.

                      To presume they would not have is literally the outcome sought in the appeal decision. The one stymied by technicalities. "The process", lmao. The process is damning for your pro-cop guesswork.

                      I clearly disagree that we should automatically be biased against police testimony.

                      Which is the same as saying you are unfamiliar with the criminal justice system and how cops behave. You keep repeating this claim and I have acknowledged and criticized it at least 3 times, to no response. How would you describe someone that acted like that?

                      All witness testimony should be considered with a certain measure of doubt, but I would need some harder data to convince me police testimony is false a statistically significant amount of the time.

                      Well luckily we have things like research papers and political organizations and the ability to ask questions so you can go figure this out. All it requires is curiosity. Unfortunately you seem to think your ignorance is better than my knowledge.

                      You've now listed a long string of arguments, but you didn't earlier, you're mischaracterizing.

                      No, I did.I counted them, you know. It did not take me long to list arguments I've made about how it is reasonable to say OP's statement that was wrongly convicted match works cited. Two ways the process was flawed (incompetent defense lawyer and shutting down appeals in technicalities), three arguments about witnesses (cops are unreliable, other witnesses disagreed but were not brought forward, one contradicting witness is a cop), one argument about the presumption of guilt and evidentiary onuses, one argument about an article literally saying what OP said verbatim. There are probably more, these just come to mind immediately.

                      The problem is that you are not directly responding to what I am saying but choose to dance around these things and deal in straw men. Don't blame me when you can't remember the list of conveniently-ignored arguments, let alone synthesize it into a larger case.

                      Your previous comment can be summed up entirely with four words: You don't trust cops.

                      Instead of providing inaccurate summaries, please reply directly to what I say.

                      This is fine, but I have higher standards.

                      As I already explained, you have lower standards. You claim to appreciate nuance and then argue for ignoring context and systemic problems.

                      I neither trust nor distrust them by default, I sit between the two.

                      I've already addressed this. Instead of repeating yourself, please reply directly to what I have already said in response.

                      Oh dear?

                      Yes, oh dear. I'm rolling my eyes at the unearned condescension.

                      When I get around to reading news articles again, likely tomorrow morning, I'll provide you a few more and we can resume this.

                      I won't hold my breath.

                      I'm not interested in a systemic discussion with you, is what that means.

                      Then you are unqualified to discuss this topic at all, which I'd inherently about the criminal justice system, how it functions, and Harris' role in it re: this case. Your aversion to discussing or acknowledging the actual realities of the system so that you can imagine the system actually works a different way encapsulates the fundamental flaw in your ad-hoc rationales.

                      Though the largest issue is an unwillingness to acknowledge or engage with what I've said, such as, for the fourth time now, the fact that one of the articles has a verbatim repetition of the claim you say is different from the articles' contents. That one point makes everything you have said moot. No wonder you have fully avoided talking about it.

                      I know full well we'd be going back and forth for quite some time, given the strength of your beliefs.

                      If it followed the current pattern, the length would be due to you repeating yourself and ignoring what I say.

                      Given that I do not think a systems-basef view captures even most of the necessary information, I would find the exercise rather pointless.

                      This is not a good faith characterization of what I have said when I have pointed to a series of specific case factors and you have ignored most of them.

                      You certainly like your pithy comebacks

                      My responses are anything but pithy.

                      but I prefer a more rigorous and colder logic.

                      Like cherry picking, straw men, and lauding the ignoring of context? lmao

                      Ultimately, the man was a danger, and this was an appropriate exercise of prosecutorial power.

                      There's that pro-cop bias.

                      • If you have strong data to the contrary on the accuracy of police testimony, then just present it, and we can get to the bottom of this. You would have done this already if you weren't so busy trying to bait me. Since you haven't, I assumed your rationale is not based on hard facts at all. You are more than welcome to prove me wrong.

                        Yes, a technicality was employed, I've not denied that either. I don't see the problem with it. The prosecutor should follow the letter of the law and use their most effective tools.

                        He was just in a bar fight, you very conveniently quoted me around that part.

                        Again, present data if you've got it, and we can put this to rest.

                        Ah, I see. "Match works cited", I did gloss over that part. So you're saying that if I click on the link part of OPs post that says the man did not commit the crime, I will encounter that claim within that article? Because I'm pretty sure it was the one I personally linked to, and I don't recall that being in it. Perhaps they mixed the links up though, mistakes do happen.

                        Regarding your six, defense lawyer incompetence I already granted. The technicality is irrelevant. Cop unreliability awaits data, otherwise I addressed it. Other witnesses I addressed in my first comment. One witness being a cop is irrelevant. Presumption of innocence I'll grant since the conviction was thrown out. This does not automatically grant release though, any more than you'd automatically go free while awaiting an initial trial. OPs verbatim I've just addressed.

                        And the rest of that looks like more bait.

                        The heart of this disagreement is about the accuracy of police testimony, as best as I can tell. Can you actually back your words? I'm open to changing my mind, but it's going to take more than clever rhetoric to do it. I like numbers, and I am deeply suspicious of people that think they can predict the actions of individuals based on the systems they are in or their group membership.

    • Oh whodathunkit?

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