An independent voter explains why they chose a moronic, oligarcho-fascist demagogue over Joe Biden (c. November 2020)

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I'm sorry, but if you didn't vote Dem in this election, you're an idiot of the highest caliber.
Vote Trump, you're an idiot for obvious reasons.
Vote anyone else in an election like this one, you're an idiot. The 3rd party candidate with the most votes only got half of a single percent of the total votes. In other words, no 3rd party candidate had even the whisper of a chance of winning.
If you're willing to gamble on a sure-to-lose scenario in an election as serious as the 2024 election, you're an idiot.
- Trump very obviously played the left with the help of Netanyahu while throwing the democrats under the bus, and the left ate it up. While the right unified, the left splintered into micro groups all hating on each other for having differing opinions within the left. I’m hearing Americans now saying “well it’s the Dems fault…” great, you sure showed them huh?
  Those people did the equivalent of chopping off their own foot, but calling it a win cause they got blood on the other guy.
  
  Yup. I hope the "Biden is committing genocide" and "Dems didn't solve every problem known to man" are happy with their new president they helped elect.
- if you didn’t vote Dem in this election, you’re an idiot of the highest caliber
  Support for the GOP correlates heavily with the presence of a fossil fuel industry in a given state or electoral district. It also tilts heavily by gender, with women and pocs tilting heavily Dem (black women vote ~~Republican~~ Democrat in the 90-95% range) while white men are around 2:1 Republican.
  The party politics flows accordingly, delivering the red meat their base voters crave while focusing the more material policies toward their respective donor bases.
  What's really fucked things of late has been Dems pandering to factions that don't actually support them (huge Dem support for AIPAC when Israel special interests were leaning hard right, huge Dem support for the domestic tech sector when Bezos/Zuck/Elon were throwing their support behind Trump, Harris parading around with Liz Cheney to the cheers of basically nobody).
  If you’re willing to gamble on a sure-to-lose scenario in an election as serious as the 2024 election, you’re an idiot.
  Republicans and Democrats both love a big rug pull. The difference on Lemmy is that you'll see plenty of people recognize the scam that is $TRUMP coin the moment it is announced, but you'll still see them doggedly defend Biden for stiffing college debtors while throwing billions into an Infrastructure Investment Act for a Silicon Valley crowd that hate him.
  
  Agree with most of what you're saying except
  see them doggedly defend Biden for stiffing college debtors
  Biden did more for college debtors than any president, ever. Did he entirely eliminate college debt? No. No one who was critically thinking actually thought that was going to happen, because what was probably going to happen was what ended up happening. A bunch of roadblocks got thrown in his way, including the Supreme Court. But he still eliminated many millions of dollars in college debt for a lot of people.
  There's no doubt that the Democratic party is not particularly great at running campaigns. But that doesn't absolve the American populace from their duty to be reasonably informed. The Democratic party can run a dogshit campaign and people who are reasonably informed can still look at the hard data and see which party is a better bet for the economy and average Americans.
  And to be clear, in a sane world, they did run a better campaign than the Republicans who ran on hate, fear, and absolute ridiculousness. IMMIGRANTS ARE EATING PEOPLE'S PETS IN SPRINGFIELD, OHIO.
  That shit worked because Americans are pretty goddamn stupid. That's not the Democrat's fault, especially since they actually vote in favor of our educational system instead of trying to privatize it, like Republicans. The brunt of this shitshow we find ourselves in falls squarely on American voters and their lack of education/morals.
  
  black women vote Republican in the 90-95% range
  Surely you meant they vote Dem in this range.
- Someone can tell me why they voted for Trump and right away after that abuse of power became OK and rule of law in US significantly deteoriated? In democracy it would be possible to right away impeach Trump, or re-count the votes, or investigate it, or something like that...
  
  Because it's "their team."
  I truly wish there was more to it.
- Not to say the 2024 pres. election wasn't important, but when was the last election where you would have said "sure, go vote for that 3rd party"?
  
  Never.
  Why?
  Because no 3rd party has done the necessary work to become a nationally viable party. No 3rd party will be viable until they start investing in candidates in local/state elections.
  There is no cheat code to make a 3rd party candidate president. 3rd parties have to start winning local/state offices, then get representatives in the House, then the Senate, before even having the possibility of running a candidate that can win a presidential election.
  Anyone voting 3rd party for president is extraordinarily ignorant and assisting in the decline of this nation on the fastest timeline possible.
- Vote anyone else in an election like this one, you’re an idiot. The 3rd party candidate with the most votes only got half of a single percent of the total votes. In other words, no 3rd party candidate had even the whisper of a chance of winning.
  We had this thread last week. I personally spent days laying out every single detail of American empire and oligarchy and how the two-party mechanic is used to mindfuck the public into compliance. Turned out people on your side were completely wrong. Can you just go back and read those threads instead of starting the same fucking argument all over again.
  edit: Like me or my position or not, the point remains - why are we endlessly starting the same conversation over from scratch when we already had it?
  
  Naaah… it didn’t turn out that the people on their side were wrong at all, just that you disagreed with them. And what really happened was- it turned out that you couldn’t have a conversation without insulting people and getting your shit removed for trolling.
  I agree though. People absolutely should read those threads, however- it’ll be a little confusing unless they access the modlogs to get your… take- on a few of those discussions.

Every single independent voter I talked voted for Orange Nero. That is how they conceal their racist neo-Nazi bullshit beliefs.
- That's because in practical reality, there are no independent voters. The vastly overwhelming majority of independents actually vote consistently along party lines.
  
  It's an interesting assertion, which caused me to ask a question here: How are we defining "independent", exactly?
  Because if it's merely "not a member of a major political party", it pretty much explains everything.
- I will spice up your life I'm an independent voter and didn't vote for Orange Nero :D

The billionaires with their hand up Trump's ass are clearly more evil than the billionaires with their hand up Biden's ass.
- I mean, yes and yes, but unfortunately yes. It's possible for a capitalist shit stain to be worse than a capitalist pee stain, even if only by a near indiscernible margin. Which mattress would you rather??
  
  The Dems failing to pass helpful legislation is different than scrapping the country and having the peices sold off by Donald Trump
  But to a centrist everything that isn't shoveling ice cream into their stupid maw is equally evil

"I don't feel comfortable voting for a woman with the same policies"

Good! We want boring. I don't want to look at our government every other day and think this is the day we are going to die. Or loved ones. Or stupid fucking decisions that have nothing to do with the voters. We long for boring.
- I remember tuning into the morning news every morning during his first presidency to make sure the US hadn't imploded overnight. There was always some new shocking shit every time. This week has been no different.

Speaking of 2020, remember when democrats worked hard to pour all their support behind Biden over Bernie? What was the explanation for that?
- lots of people who vote for dems aren't very leftist. The reality is that for dems to win they need to pick sides opposed to republicans on enough issues to capture a majority. 2020 Biden did that. 2024 Biden Harris did not.
- remember when democrats worked hard to pour all their support behind Biden over Bernie? What was the explanation for that?
  Biden got more votes?
  Like, it's not that complicated. Lookup both Democratic primaries Bernie has been in. He got crushed in popular votes both times. I like Bernie. You apparently do too. Doesn't mean most voters do. He lost the popular vote. Twice.
  
  I wouldn't say he got crushed. But you're not wrong. Despite people being wrong down voting you for saying that he lost the popular vote. He 100% did. I can say that as someone who voted for sanders. Unfortunately a lot of Sanders voters can't.
  A lot of the Democrats primary rules weren't very democratic. But Sanders knew what they were going in. And Democrats didn't break the rules. And despite losing, Sanders got shit done and helped make the rules more democratic for the future.
  
  If Biden was getting more votes, why did the democratic party collude to make all the other candidates drop and put their support behind Biden while funding a super PAC to keep Warren in the race to split votes with Bernie right before the critical point of super tuesday? They also had their buddies in big media play the narrative of "the Biden miracle" where he edged ahead in South Carolina thanks to a single critical endorsement by Clyburn but was doing poorly before then. For this favor, the democrats moved South Carolina up in the primaries in 2024, even though South Carolina went to Trump in both 2020 and 2024 for the general election.
  The democratic party felt so threatened by Bernie that they put their thumb on the scale during their own party primary which is already biased towards party-favored "moderate" candidates since people more in line with the party are more likely to vote in them.
- Holy shit that is one high quality gif!

"I wanted to be outraged and lose sleep daily. I need to yell at my computer and throw things at my TV in order to feel alive"

More like: He’s so…old
- Trump is 3 years younger and plainly aging worse than Biden.
  
  If you think conservatives actually cared about Biden's age, you are sorely mistaken. The proof being they elected an extremely sundowning dipshit that's basically the same age but aging way worse.
  Was just another tactic to get dipshit independent (and some Democrat) voters to shy away from Biden. And it worked, because Americans are dumb.
  
  I wouldn’t say that at all. It’s hard to tell because of trumps make up but Biden looks like absolute dog shit. His final months in office he looked like a strong wind will blow him over and break both of his legs.
  Both men look their age but Biden was clearly the older of the two and had no business running for a second term. Whether he was healthier or not is irrelevant.
- MFW when I see the US presidential candidates
- Also gEnOcIdE
  
  Imagine being the pro genocide candidate (Trump) and your opponents voter base (Harris) votes for you to stop the genocide 🤡 /s
  Edit: edited because I guess the joke wasn’t clear. Cheeto man bad.

Like choosing to eat uranium because cancer treatment would give you something to do after work.

"I think politics should always be entertaining. Then I get annoyed that politicians are always drawing attention to themselves and there's always drama. I cannot even visualize living life any other way. I find myself to be very intelligent! And pure. I find myself to be very intelligent and pure. At the center of the universe! I mean... I turn around, I see the horizon always at the same distance... I must be at the center of the universe. That's my story and I'm sticking to it. I find myself to be very intelligent, and pure, and at the center of the universe."

What is this meme template from
- It's not a template, they're going through lines in The Room.

We truly live in Oktavias universe. Except at least there they only elected the faschist once.

I can’t tell the difference between red and blue genocide.
- Blue opposes in words, but aids by supplying weapons while saying they can only be used for defense against other countries but not enforcing that restriction.
  Red says fuck the Palestinians, genocide is fine.
  
  There's also the implication that Blue does have a line, somewhere. Probably related to polling numbers.
- That's because you aren't informed.
- Blue is only ok with 1 external genocide and there was a possibility of pressuring Blue to be a decent human. Red is starting an internal genocide while supporting 2+ external genocides. Red would start another genocide just to be contrarian. With no other options less genocide is a fairly simple choice over more genocide. Not choosing less genocide allows more genocide. Congrats the blood is up to your knees and rising instead of just your ankles.
- Well, we can't make you see the difference if you don't want to.
  
  Of course there’s a difference if you really get into it, but much like the two main parties here, I don’t see the point.
- Exactly. In my experience it works like this:
  Blue maga folks make a post bitching again about left-wing voters staying home - precisely what those left wing voters explicitly and repeatedly warned the centrist dems they would do if Biden didn't stop weapons shipments to Israel.
  In that post, blue maga folks will say, "well, for some reason all the leftists who spoke against Biden have mysteriously disappeared. We never hear from them again. I guess they were all just Russian plants."
  In the comments, they receive numerous comments from leftists who didn't vote for Kalama, or in my case, someone who did vote for Kamala, but still fully understands why people didn't vote for her.
  Blue maga downvotes the Hell out of the leftist post instead of engaging in good faith. They downvote until their posts cannot be seen anymore.
  Blue maga goes on pretending that the anti-genocide leftists have all just mysteriously disappeared.
  
  blue maga
  Thanks for putting this so early in the comment so I know to stop reading!
  
  precisely what those left wing voters explicitly and repeatedly warned the centrist dems they would do
  So, like, they told us they were going to be stupid?
  What do you do with people straight up telling you they're going to be stupid?
  
  And of course during the next primary: 'we have to rally around 90% hitler to stand a chance against 100% hitler. 0% hitler is just too radical to win the general election. If anything we need more hitler to win over the centrists'
  
  Leftists don't let Nazis get into power, even if it means dealing with corporatists some more years.
  You're not a leftist. You did nothing to avoid the farthest of the right-wing from gaining possibly absolute power. You did nothing to keep things leftward, or even center right - you just allowed the fascists to take over without a struggle.
  You're not the resistance, you're not a helper, you're not leftist; you're nothing.
  
  GeNoCiDe
  
  Don't forget: 4.5. Leftists get moderated for saying Biden supported genocide (with the reason given for the moderation being "misinformation") and receive a ban.

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