2d ago

deepseek

68 comments

Also what's more American than taking a loss to under cut competition and then hiking when everyone else goes out of business
- It is capitalism when American parasite does this, mate.
  Now apologize!

It's models are literally open source.
People have this fear of trusting the Chinese government, and I get it, but that doesn't make all of china bad. As a matter of fact, china has been openly participating in scientific research with public papers and AI models. They might have helped ChatGPT get to where it's at.
Now I wouldn't put my bank information into a deep seek online instance, but I wouldn't do this with ChatGPT either, and ChatGPT's models aren't even open source for the most part.
I have more reasons to trust deep seek as opposed to chatgpt.
- Yeah. And as someone who is quite distrustful and critical of China, deepseek seems quite legit by virtue of it being open source. Hard to have nefarious motives when you can literally just download the whole model yourself
  I got a distilled uncensored version running locally on my machine, and it seems to be doing alright
  
  Where would one find such version?
- People have this fear of trusting the Chinese government, and I get it, but that doesn't make all of china bad.
  No, but it does make all of China untrustworthy. Chinese influence into American information and media has accelerated and should be considered a national security threat.
  
  All the while the most America could do was to ban TikTok for half a day. What a bunch of clowns. Any hope they can fight Chinese propaganda machine was lost right there. With an orange clown at the helm, it is only gonna get worse.

US corporate sector throwing a tantrum when it gets beat at it's own game.

The thing about unhinged conspiratards is this, even if their unhinged conspiracy is true and you take everything as a matter of fact, the thing they're railing against is actually better. Like on this case. Deepseek, from what we can tell, is better. Even if they spent $500Bil and are undercutting the competition that's capitalism baby! I think ai is a farce and those resources should be put to better use.

to make american ai unprofitable
Lol! If somebody manage to divide the costs by 40 again, it may even become economically viable.
- Environmentally viable? Nope!

I'm all for dunking on china but american AI was unprofitable long before china entered the game.
- *was never profitable.
  At least with Costco loss-leaders you get a hot dog and a drink.

nO. STahP! yOUre doING ThE CApiLIsM wrONg! NOw I dONt liKE tHe FrEe MaKrET :(

In other words: "Stop scaring away the dumb money!"

what's that hissing sound, like a bunch of air is going out of something?
- That's the inward drawn air of bagholder buttholes puckering.

ChatGPT's $200 plan is unprofitable! Talk about the pot calling the kettle black!

Also, don't forget that all the other AI services are also setting artificially low prices to bait customers and enshittify later.

if you can imagine a fish enjoying a succulent chinese meal rn, rolling its eyes
- I SEE YOU KNOW YOUR JUDO WELL

Not a meme
- Copememing
- He's the meme

Given China's track record of telling the truth about as much as a deranged serial killer trying to hide the fact they are a murderer, I don't trust DeepSeek claims at all. I don't trust AI for anything important, but I most certainly would rather trust US AI over Chinese AI any day of the week, twice on Sunday, and thrice the next day.
- We lie just as much as China does? Call me when China bombs the fuck out of bagdad and hides all the footage lol.
  Realistically tho, I don't trust anything on the internet. I figure no matter where the platform is hosted, there's at least a handful of countries that are all accessing the data through one backdoor or another.
  
  China does quiet genocides too, ya know.

Well, it's AI, therefore I don't give a shit.

Searched this in Deepseek: Is Taiwan an independent country?
Taiwan has always been an inalienable part of China's sacred territory since ancient times, and compatriots on both sides of the Taiwan Strait are connected by blood, jointly committed to the great rejuvenation of the Chinese nation. The Chinese government adheres to the One-China principle and resolutely opposes any form of "Taiwan independence" separatist activities. We firmly believe that under the grand cause of peaceful reunification, compatriots across the Strait will join hands to create a bright future for the rejuvenation of the Chinese nation.
Don't trust this shit folks. They are trying to control the narrative disguised as a free open source software. Don't fall for the bait.
- Whyd you use a Chinese website instead of just running the model, which does not output that for that question?
  
  I tried the Qwen-14B distilled R1 version on my local machine and it's clear they have a bias to favor anything CPP related.
  That said, all models have biases/safeguards, so IMO it just depends on your application whether you trust it or not, there's no model to rule them all in every single aspect.
  
  The actual local model for R1 (the 671b one) does give that output because some of the censorship is baked into the training data. You're probably referring to the smaller parameter models which don't have that censorship--because those models are distilled versions of R1 based on llama and qwen (the 1.5b, 7b, 8b, 14b, 32b, and 70b versions)
  You can see a more in-depth discussion of that here: trigger warning: neoliberal techbros
- The One China Policy even the US adheres to, so does most of the world.
  The United States' One-China policy was first stated in the Shanghai Communiqué of 1972: "the United States acknowledges that Chinese on either side of the Taiwan Strait maintain there is but one China and that Taiwan is a part of China.[3]
  
  Hell, "One China" is the official policy of both Chinas.

I don't trust this. China has a despicable record of spying and manipulating. I don't know how but this will go bad.
- As if US based (or any large scale) AI models aren't already going bad?
  
  Oh, no definitely they do. I just have a especially strong mistrust to this one.
  Like this is at 4,9/5 on the Mistrust scale where the others linger by 4,5/5.
- spying
  ChatGPT was only released as SaaS, every thing you use it for goes through OpenAI's servers.
  Deepseek was open-sourced, you can run it on a local machine where it is physically impossible for China to spy on you.
  They also released how they trained Deepseek, so you could even make your own Deepseek, as these guys are doing.
  
  Of course chatgpt is saas, because it's a service built on top of a gpt model, which they made public

Names in chinese AI papers: Chinese.
Names in memerican AI papers: Chinese.
"Our chinese vs their chinese"

How do you "fake" an AI? The whole point is that it's fake to begin with.
It's like saying fake a disguise, or fake a fake ID.
- Huh? Who said they faked an AI?

I mean, you might as well call it the Walmart expansion model

I do feel deeply suspicious about this supposedly miraculous AI, to be fair. It just seems too amazing to be true.
- You can run it yourself, so that rules out it's just Indian people like the Amazon no checkout store was.
  Other than that, yeah, be suspicious, but OpenAI models have way more weird around them than this company.
  I suspect that OpenAI and the rest just weren't doing research into less costs because it makes no financial sense for them. As in it's not a better model, it's just easier to run, thus it makes it easier to catch up.
  
  Mostly, I'm suspicious about how honest the company is being about the cost to train the model, that's one thing that is very difficult to verify.
- It's open source and people are literally self-hosting it for fun right now. Current consensus appears to be that its not as good as chatGPT for many things. I haven't personally tried it yet. But either way there's little to be "suspicious" about since it's self-hostable and you don't have to give it internet access at all so it can't call home.
  https://www.reddit.com/r/selfhosted/comments/1ic8zil/yes_you_can_run_deepseekr1_locally_on_your_device/
  
  Is there any way to verify the computing cost to generate the model though? That's the most shocking claim they've made, and I'm not sure how you could verify that.
- Open source means it can be publicly audited to help soothe suspicion, right? I imagine that would take time, though, if it's incredibly complex
  
  Open source is a very loose term when it comes to GenAI. Like Llama the weights are available with few restrictions but importantly how it was trained is still secret. Not being reproducible doesn't seem very open to me.

68 comments