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You have no idea what you are talking about... profits aren't theft, paying people less than the money you make from their work also isn't theft. Being worth billions because the stock market values your ownership in a big company as worth billions also isn't theft.
paying people less than the money you make from their work also isn't theft
Why would someone agree to sell their labor for less than it's worth
What you are worth is less than the profit you make. If a company paid you exactly the money they made from you, they would make no money and cease to exist. It's really not that complicated.
It's like asking why do stores sell products for more than it costs them to buy. It's such a simple question that even you should know the right answer.
Why organize society this way?
Because that's the only way it will work? How do you expect businesses to exist and pay bills when they make zero money?
Yeah thats why everything is working so well lmao.
Who must the business pay bills to, and why?
So we should just sell items for what they cost? Doesn't matter if you spent all day working, you get nothing because you just sold everything for what it costs? That's a better society?
Businesses first need to pay employees, that's an obvious one, nobody is going to work for free. Then they need to pay for all the raw materials they buy, and the electricity, etc. If they can't make a profit they aren't paying any of those.
The fact that you willingly debase yourself like this says everything that is needed to know about the system we live under.
You are better than this.
You are better than this.
they should be but they aren't
Explain where I am debasing myself? If you are referring to a company paying me less than they make from me, how do you expect them to make any money, or even break even, if they don't do that?
If you are referring to a company paying me less than they make from me, how do you expect them to make any money, or even break even, if they don't do that?
- Karl Marx, Das Kapital
Care to elaborate about whatever point you are making?
Fundamentals of Marx: Surplus Labor and Value. (video is only 10 min long)
E: This one goes into more depth, is a bit more polished of a production, and is 17min: Marx's Law of Value: Intro to Marxist Economics | Socialism 101
You're pointing out the fundamental contradiction of capitalism - bosses make a profit by paying workers less than their value - that is the basis of Marxism. We are all extremely aware that your boss needs to underpay you to "make any money, or even break even". It is literally the reason we oppose capitalism.
So you propose they pay you exactly the amount you make them, and the company goes broke in the process, so now you also make nothing since you don't have a job?
No, we propose that there not be a group of people (capitalists) who own the business just so they can extract profit from the worker's labor. The workers should collectively own the firm. We recognize that there are two primary classes in society: those who work for a wage that is less than the value they generate (the working class) and those who own a business and extract profit by underpaying their workers (the capitalist class). These classes are inherently in conflict, and the only resolution to that is socialism, which removes the capitalist class from the equation entirely.
So the people who put in the most risk and started the company get nothing more than someone who joined 20 years later? How do you expect companies to get created if the owner constantly loses more and more of their company the bigger it gets? Why risk any of this money in the company when it isn't even his anymore?
What's the risk they take? Will they be killed if their business fails to turn a profit?
Oh no, they'll might have to work for a wage like the people they were exploiting.
It's a huge financial risk to start a business, most require a lot of upfront costs.
So the people who put in the most risk and started the company get nothing more than someone who joined 20 years later?
They'll get as much as they continue to put in.
How do you expect companies to get created if the owner constantly loses more and more of their company the bigger it gets?
State and worker directed capital funds that vet and invest in new firms.
Why risk any of this money in the company when it isn't even his anymore?
We will structure access to capital such that we don't depend on profit-sucking capitalists to grant it to us.
They'll get as much as they continue to put in.
Since they run the business I assume they will be making a lot more than the rest of the employees, right?
State and worker directed capital funds that vet and invest in new firms.
Do you really think that can work? I think you will have a very hard time getting people to agree to put their money into stuff like this.
We will structure access to capital such that we don't depend on profit-sucking capitalists to grant it to us.
Ah, yeah, let's just restructure the whole system into some untested idea, that's going to go over great with everyone. How would you even start making this change?
You are better than this.
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It's called income tax, I'm the one making the income, so what should the company pay it? The company pays taxes also, like a payroll tax.
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Believe what you want to believe, I don't really care.
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You realize rich people do pay income taxes just like the rest of us, right?
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They do actually, the problem is that when people talk about their tax rate they compare it to wealth, not income, and that isn't how income tax works.