Linux For Life

Linux normally does a nice shutdown as well, unless you force it.
You can force it on windows if you really want.
I'm so tired of linux memes posted/made by people who don't know much about windows or linux.
- You can force it on windows if you really want.
  Please elaborate
  
  Shutdown.exe -r -t 00 -f
  Fast , no mucking around with graceful exiting of stuff. Kicks it in the teefs
  
  The process manager lets you kill any process.
  You can also click the do it anyway button when it's waiting on shutdown, but I've had less consistent success with that.
  
  Theres a button on the back of the psu that comes in handy a LOT with windows. Useless on linux unless you want to use that button for its intended purpose.
  
  Back in the day if I wanted to quit Windows the fastest way, I’d rename the c:/windows folder…
  Back to the DOS prompt faster than you could blink
  
  There's also a hardware way, works on practically any device. Phone, tablet, laptop, desktop, etc. Doesn't matter what the OS is.
  Press and hold power button for anywhere between 5 - 15 seconds. The second half of this meme describes this method the best, methinks.
- Absolutely, if people agree or not, the core windows is still a pretty powerful operating system. Its sad that they are ruining it by adding crap into it.
  
  I'm waiting for pure GNU/NT. It sure as hell ain't Unix!
- Oh, p-lease, can force it my ass, Linux has never failed to shutdown on me when using plain obvious GUI method. windows - can easily hang on forever as long as computer stays powered. The point of all the memes is exactly insane windows defaults, not the things that can or can't be done by someone with enough knowledge
- It was simpler using Linux to just kill things unceremoniously, but my coworkers are also consistently amazed when Epic throws a temper tantrum (rare, but it happens) and I walk over and ctrl-alt-delete and tell it to sit down and shut the fuck up until it's ready to reboot and act right.
  
  Why not Ctrl+Shift+Esc?
  
  Epic?
- Yeah this is more of a situation where because more applications are built for windows you're more likely to encounter poor quality application level software on windows than on Linux. Especially if you stay within the walled garden that most distros provide.
  People see a pattern with having a lot more problems with applications on windows than they do on linux and wrongly assume it's because of the OS.
  It's really silly since there's plenty of real bullshit going on with windows people could meme about. There's no need to make up shit about windows being bad at something it actually does ok with.
- Linux programs either HAVE to be quick while receiving shutdown signal, otherwise the state will be fucked, work will be lost, and people will be mad, and program will stop being used.
  Clicking the Windows button to force shutdown will straight up kill the program and won't care at all.
- Windows also has to worry about getting sued by another multinational conglomerate when some idiot loses the only copy if a super critical file because they were too lazy to save and forced their laptop to shutdown so they could pickup lunch.
- Yeah. This looks me like a kill -9 to me.

Linux gives processes a chance to gracefully close. However, it also will absolutely NOT allow a process to hang up the shutdown or restart procedure after a point. If you're using systemd (which there is a good chance you are), it'll count down. If the process hasn't stopped in the time allotted, it gets Old Yellered.
- When I use systemctl shutdown it happens instantly
  
  If a process closes immediately from the shutdown command because it isn't doing anything, sure.
- Question, what's the default wait time?
  
  Depends on the process. Can be 30 seconds. Can be 5 minutes.
  
  The default in systemd, unless your distribution has modified it either globally, or for a specific service, is 90 seconds

- I hate this message
  
  If you hit Ctrl Alt Delete very quickly in succession (I believe it's 7 times in a row) it will bail out from a stop job and proceed with shutting down
  Learned that trick because I was so tired of seeing that occur ha. Along that research I swear I recall seeing that it's a KDE/SDDM issue but I might be getting some wires crossed on that (and thus, don't quote me/take my word on that 😅)
- Systemd moment
  
  systemd moment in the sense that someone not affiliated with systemd used systemd to write a stop job that doesn't terminate quickly? Or that you willingly installed software that brought along a slow stop job with it?
  This is like so far away from systemd's fault, idk, it must just be a meme right?
- Wasn't the systemd dude a Microsoft employee or something?
  
  He wrote Pulseaudio, Avahi, and systemd before joining Microsoft, where he currently works.
  
  to be honest if that happens its better to understand why that happens, instead of just pulling the plug. maybe a larger program (like firefox) is still exiting and in the middle of saving the session and closing databases. if you pull the plug, it'll corrupt its data, it'll forget your opened tabs and whatnot and you'll be angry
- Not only do I get this on shutdown I get a job on startup that runs for a minute thirty that looks for a swap partition that I have deleted.
  
  Did you delete it or comment it out in /etc/fstab? Adding
  bash
  
  noresume
  to your boot arguments should also help. You can try that out in "extended options" during boot and add it to /boot/grub/grub.cfg later. Don't forget to run
  bash
  
  update-grub
  after editing.
  
  I've had that problem before, I think I had to mess around with my fstab and grub config to fix it.
  
  As comments below you will need to check /etc/fstab and then run a mkgrub or mkgrub2 command with options like -o (you will have lookup the full string) and it will rewrite the info that the system is told at boot about drive partitions
- Dahm been quite a bit since I've seen this one. Wonder what changed on my system?
- When I forget to close explicitly Steam before shutdown
- Praise all the syatemd gods
- disconnects power cord

Linux does give every application time to shut down correctly, but unlike windows, it won't wait for ages until every process is down. Linux WILL shut down in a certain timeframe, whereas windows waits for years if necessary. In my old job, we all had to use windows and I had times where I clicked shut down, turned off my monitor, grabbed my stuff, left and in the next morning, the PC was still on because Notepad refused to just close lmao.
- That is what infuriates me so much. Instead of just killing the process after 5 mins of waiting it just cancels the shutdown. Like fuck off with that shit.
  
  Depending on the use case, that can be a good thing or a bad thing
- I should probably sigterm instead of sigkill, but it sounds far less cool

I've never seen anything graceful in windows
- "Mmm, that didn't work, try again later I guess? Just stop bothering me with your petty needs and get back to generating monetizable data that I can harvest."
- Windows: I refuse to shut down because of a, b , c
  Me: But I already clos. . .
  Windows: No you didnt't, stop lying!
  Me : Well, I pressed the X and the window dissappeared.
  Windows: Lol, noob. Did you never even heard of a task managers?
  
  windows: "Can't shut down because of the 'Cant shut down' notice"
  me: "but..."
- "this application is preventing you from shutting down. Go back and save your work: shut down, cancel"
  Clicks cancel
  Windows: shutting down!

Windows: Has a complex and graceful shutdown process to make sure programs never close if there's a problem with them and your computer just stalls on shutdown until you hold down the power button and completely void out the purpose of the graceful shutdown.
- Ever tell a pc to shut down and come after work and it's still waiting for click a box.
  
  Ever? Too many times. When I think I've told Windows Update "yes, do all the shit, yes it's fine, yes I'm sure, yes you can do it, yes I really want you to do it, yes I'm sure I really want you to, yes I'm sure I'm sure, yes for the umpteenth fucking time" and switched off my monitor to go home for the weekend, the number of times I've come in on a Monday morning just to find I have to click "yes" yet again then have to sit there watching it grind out its updates.
  I just wish they'd add a checkbox, off by default, that says "yes you can do it all, just stop asking stupid fucking questions" that I can click and go home. But for some reason Microwank insist I have to sit there watching that fucking update percentage creep up then endlessly sit at "100% all is done, please wait" for no reason whatsoever.
  Oh yeah and there always seem to be way more reboots needed when BitLocker is active. I'm sure 1 reboot is the norm with occasional 2's. But with BL it's usually 5-6 reboots.
  I used to work at a place where MS would raise tickets with us and I always wanted to give them the WU treatment. But professionalism always got in the way of "This ticket is 100% complete, you must close and reopen it to continue".

If your app doesn’t respond to SIGTERM gracefully, you need to fix your app. The system did its job as documented.

If your code can’t handle a sig9 then your code is weak
- sig 9 or sig 9mm - that's the question here
  
  kill $SIGSAUER

Is this even true? I am fairly sure that Linux also has a graceful shutdown process, but I'll admit I haven't looked into it.
- yeah we have SIGTERM for graceful and SIGKILL for not so graceful shutting down a process.
  
  In order of decreasing politeness: 1, 2, 15, 9 = HUP, INT, TERM, KILL = "Please stop", "Quit it", "I'm warning you" and "BANG"

kill commands make one feel like a Caesar
- et tu, Sudo?
- Kill ‘em all, let God sort ‘em out 🤣
  
  Lol yes. Killall makes one feel like a god.

i mean
- Great way to damage a power cable.
  
  Old wives' tale. I've only ever yanked power cords out of the wall and I've yet to have one go bad on me.
  
  We should start clamping little handles to them.
- I just use scissors, I have so many IECs laying around
  
  Be careful cutting any multi-conductor cable with scissors, there is a solid chance you short the conductors to each other when doing so.
- I like it. Simple but effective.

Close correctly my ass, window's priority is to piss us off.
- I've tried to turn a pc off to go to sleep, only to realize in the morning it's still on because some program refused to close.
  Now when I see the prompt to force close, I just say yes.

Closing correctly means the program stops NOW

Fear will keep them in line

The kernel giveth, the kernel taketh away

I feel this meme was created by someone who didn't actually know Windows in depth and recently learned of the kill command. Which by default just asks the process nicely to terminate itself.
- kill -9 does not ask nicely

$ kill -L 1) SIGHUP 2) SIGINT 3) SIGQUIT 4) SIGILL 5) SIGTRAP 6) SIGABRT 7) SIGBUS 8) SIGFPE 9) SIGKILL 10) SIGUSR1 11) SIGSEGV 12) SIGUSR2 13) SIGPIPE 14) SIGALRM 15) SIGTERM 16) SIGSTKFLT 17) SIGCHLD 18) SIGCONT 19) SIGSTOP 20) SIGTSTP 21) SIGTTIN 22) SIGTTOU 23) SIGURG 24) SIGXCPU 25) SIGXFSZ 26) SIGVTALRM 27) SIGPROF 28) SIGWINCH 29) SIGIO 30) SIGPWR 31) SIGSYS 34) SIGRTMIN 35) SIGRTMIN+1 36) SIGRTMIN+2 37) SIGRTMIN+3 38) SIGRTMIN+4 39) SIGRTMIN+5 40) SIGRTMIN+6 41) SIGRTMIN+7 42) SIGRTMIN+8 43) SIGRTMIN+9 44) SIGRTMIN+10 45) SIGRTMIN+11 46) SIGRTMIN+12 47) SIGRTMIN+13 48) SIGRTMIN+14 49) SIGRTMIN+15 50) SIGRTMAX-14 51) SIGRTMAX-13 52) SIGRTMAX-12 53) SIGRTMAX-11 54) SIGRTMAX-10 55) SIGRTMAX-9 56) SIGRTMAX-8 57) SIGRTMAX-7 58) SIGRTMAX-6 59) SIGRTMAX-5 60) SIGRTMAX-4 61) SIGRTMAX-3 62) SIGRTMAX-2 63) SIGRTMAX-1 64) SIGRTMAX
- So does kill -4 just make the program a bit poorly?
  
  It starts playing Beastie Boys over PC speaker
  
  SIGILL P1990 Core Illegal Instruction
  https://www.man7.org/linux/man-pages/man7/signal.7.html

Linux is actually great if you need to implement graceful shutdown with signals -- I love it all around :)))

Except Windows doesn’t. You can send WM_CLOSE, but that may not actually bail out of the core loop. PostQuitMessage() works better for some apps, but not at all for windowless CONSOLE subsystem processes. Windows also has a lot of special behavior around generating signals in other processes. It’s a mess.
Like, every time I reboot the reboot UI complains about mysterious, unnamed processes that take suspiciously long to quit.
Having the kernel yank the process out of existence with prejudice is definitely the way to go as apps should be hardened for crashing, anyway.
- My work laptop always complains that it can't shut down the "Shutting down" app when it tries to shut down.
  
  taps forehead
  
  My PC randomly does this too with program.exe or something. And the dumbest part is, that as soon as I press cancel to close the program myself, it starts shutting down completely! Doesn't even load back into the OS or something, just continues the shutdown like nothing was wrong in the first place.
- Ez just nuke processes from the kernel debugger /s
  But, real talk, the only comparable thing would be the emergency restart option (go to ctrl+alt+del screen, hold ctrl as you click on the shutdown button)

sudo reboot, that way the gui gets to die in a fire, too!

Don't both GNOME and KDE send sigterm first on shutdown?
- Yeah, this meme is bullshit but gets still posted every other month or so. Windows can also just kill a process, similar to sigkill.
  
  I don't mind a bullshit meme, most memes are bullshit. Sometimes the bullshittery itself is the funny bit, or to put it another way, there are times like this where the absurdity of it is what's funny to me. Like, Linux's kill levels operate, as they must, as advice to the running process, because the os has no insight or capability as to how to gracefully close a process - nor should it. It's an impossible task to know what safe cleanup looks like. But I like the image of the Linux penguin shooting Firefox tbqh

one of my favourite things when i switched to linux first was using the meta+Q hotkey to shutdown a program (this was with PopOS i think). with windows there is alt+F4 but some programs only use shift+alt+F4 which makes it a lot more confusing. on top of all that if youre using a laptop then its another keypress for the Fn key in some cases

REISUB. I own you machine, and you will do as I say. Reboot.

and this how I deleted the file I edited the entire day: shutdown -h now. No go to bed NOW!

"no loose ends"
- Dead processes make no log entries

KILL KILL KILL

You literally kill/xkill/killall the program.
- In As400, you type PWRDWNSYS *IMMED.
  Then you pray it comes back up in a timely manner.

Nothing is graceful about Windows. [=

Personally, I find xkill quite graceful.

Kill commands make me look like a CS:Go Civilian

Unass my ram.

To the people complaining Windows has an aggressive method. Sure but I didn't know about it till now. Task manager didn't make it obvious to me and so I didn't know about it till now (and everyone keeps talking about commands and shutdowns so it doesn't even sound like you can do it through task manager). Linux's system manager did and I have known about it since first using Linux (about half a year ago now)

Except when you install ESET EFS.... may the guru save your source...

Laughs in Sierra
- elaborate please
  
  old sierra DOS games, uh, they fucked up the code when exiting so they'd just crash. so they changed the error code to say "thanks for playing Kings Quest" or something similiar

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