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In regard to Hyprland and Fascism

drewdevault.com

FDO's conduct enforcement actions regarding Vaxry

Like y'all keep posting about it, praising it, giving it free advertisement, and what not.

But the dev is a fascist, the discord server is a fascist bar, and the project thus is fascist.

I've met people who were harassed, I browsed through now deleted messages of Vaxry using slurrs and more.

So I wonder is if the people who post constantly about it know and are complicit, or just don't know and would act otherwise?

It gets tiring to see the project be given "fame" when I know the roots of the plants are founded in toxicity & abuse.

125 comments

  • Im looking forward to the full release of cosmic as I dont want to keep using hyprland. Sadly theming is incomplete and it'll be a while before good themes get released.

  • It is a quandary.

    I would not support the project monetarily because I would not want to fund the primary persons behind it.

    But Hyprland is FOSS is it not? Someone could fork the project to resolve the issue you are describing.

    If this does not resolve the issue in your opinion (as you seem to have concerns with the "roots" of the project), and if we go with that logic, we should be just as opposed to using the modern "Jerry" gas can as it was a Nazi invention originally.

    Both good and evil people invent things - whether the thing that is invented is itself reflective or could be considered supportive of the inventors ideals varies. Nazi's are terrible and I don't want to support them, but at the same time I think that it is good and useful to be able to safely and effectively transport gas if needed, and I'm not so certain that function supports Nazi ideals. If I purchased the gas can from a Nazi, then it would, but nothing is being purchased in the case of Hyprland as far as I am aware.

    I don't know a tonne about Hyprland as a thing however, so my decision on whether or not to use it may also vary.

    In short, you can have massive, entirely valid criticisms of the evil deeds of a person, but that does not necessarily fault everything they invent or touch, even if we would like it to. This is the crux of the Composition/Division logical fallacy if I am not mistaken, which is where we make an assumption that what is true about part of something must be applied to the rest of it without exception.

    In this instance, the inventor may be evil but it does not automatically mean that their inventions are inherently evil.

    If there are criticisms of Hyprland, the software itself - then it is a different matter.

    • But Hyprland is FOSS is it not? Someone could fork the project to resolve the issue you are describing.

      I feel like this is kind of a misnomer about how FOSS software gets developed. for one the Vaxry guy is basically the only active dev of Hyprland and if you look at for example the GitHub contribution breakdown he has worked much more on Hyprland stuff than all the other contributors combined. Since this kind of work is essentially free labor for no return simply forking the project and continuing Hyprland without him is infeasible IMO - other Wayland compositors already exist, like sway or niri and some even try to fill the same niche as Hyprland like swayfx (i.e. eye candy effects and smooth animations), so I don't really see a reason to fork Hyprland when those other compositors can do similar things while already being in active development.

      If this does not resolve the issue in your opinion (as you seem to have concerns with the "roots" of the project), and if we go with that logic, we should be just as opposed to using the modern "Jerry" gas can as it was a Nazi invention originally.

      Hyprland is actively being developed by a fascist and that fascist is actively being platformed within the FOSS community through it. I think that is also what OP is trying to say, it doesn't matter if Hyprland is "good" or "bad" software.

  • I don't care, i care for the tech. I don't need to make friends with the devs of the tech nor give them my money.

    They have different political views than me, yes. Does it affect the tech they develop? Not in my opinion.

  • And on that note, I condemn in the harshest terms the response from communities like /r/linux on the subject. The vile harassment and hate directed at the FDO officer in question is obscene and completely unjustifiable. I don’t care what window manager or desktop environment you use – this kind of behavior is completely uncalled for. I expect better.

    moment

  • You probably don't care about my opinion, but one of the reason I don't really care about this is that I only have the "drama" second hand from very unreliable sources. There is the Vaxry's version of the story which cannot be trusted because that's conflict of interest. Then there is Drew, who according to a Distrotube video is quite a bizzare person, who really enjoys to stir the drama and write these extremely misleading "hitpieces" on famous FOSS people. The issue is that to me Distrotube is not a credible source regarding this either because he's got for me too schizo view of the world. He has a rifle collection, in case he has to fight for his country. (including a rifle, "that's good for children")

    So it's just too foggy for me. Well I don't promote Hyprland because I don't care about my computer's "looks" and because according to some (I think) Void dev, Hyprland code is crap. But that's a different story. Anyways my point is that I can see why people can see it as not that bad.

    edit: adding sources for the Drew, Distrotube and Void stuff, in that order. Also the Drew video relies on indirect evidence but for me it's fairly convincing.

    https://youtube.com/watch?v=NLHIIVppdMw

    https://youtube.com/watch?v=nvQ-ZY460WQ

    https://reddit.com/r/voidlinux/comments/1eb3ivp/on_hyprland

    • You don't have to trust Drew, though. Vaxry is pretty clear on his stance on the subject.

      if I run a discord server around cultivating tomatoes, I should not exclude people based on their political beliefs, unless they use my discord server to spread those views.

      which means even if they are literally adolf hitler, I shouldn't care, as long as they don't post about gassing people on my server

      that is inclusivity

      Source: https://blog.vaxry.net/articles/2023-inclusiveActivists

      Note how this article is not where he first stated the above. This article is where he doubles down on the above statement in the face of criticism. In the rest of the article he presents nazism as an opinion people might have that you disagree with. He argues that his silent acceptance of nazis is the morally correct stance while inclusive communities are toxic actually.

      This means that it's not just Drew or the FDO who are arguing that Vaxry's complete lack of political stance is creating safe spaces for fascists. It's Vaxry himself that explicitly states this is happening and that it's intentional on his part.

      • unless they use my discord server to spread those views

        To me that's not controversial at all and does not suggest in the slightest that he's a fascist, National Socialist or whatever. And he isn't creating "safe spaces" for these kind of people either. A safe space to me means a place where said people can express their (stupid) opinion freely, which Vaxry according to this statement does not support. Also I don't have the exact quote but in a different episode of his blogpost saga he claimed that when some person was transphobic, said person was banned. So that would also be supporting evidence that he does not create safe spaces for bigots.

        If we're talking strictly hypothetically, I'm a worse person than Vaxry because unlike me, he claims not to allow bigots to express their opinions in his dicksword server, while I am engaging in communication in a Lemmy community where being a fan of Mao or Stalin is allowed.

        In the rest of the article he presents nazism as an opinion people might have that you disagree with.

        He didn't say anything about Nazism being an opinion you disagree with.

        He argues that his silent acceptance of nazis is the morally correct stance while inclusive communities are toxic actually.

        He does argue that his stance is morally correct but what you said is not his stance. I think the following quote implies the point he's trying to make.

        It's important to note that there are many people who disagree on topics like religion, economic systems, LGBT issues, geopolitics, and other. For whatever reasons they may, we still should not ostracize them as long as they can interact with the FOSS community in a respectful manner, without arguing about those issues in places not meant for such discussions.

        I think his point is that him disallowing ostracising of people creates communities that tolerate all kinds of people including say, LGBT people. The Nazis would be collateral damage of inclusiveness, I suppose. I'm naming specifically LGBT, since in a different quote he's talking about illegal things in Hungary, which is famously a highly LGBT-discriminating country in the EU:

        I stand by my stance that even if you are something that the country I live in disagrees with, you still are free to use, contribute to, and be a part of the greater FOSS community.

        Also part of his point is that just because someone claims some other person is a bigot, does not mean that's actually true. The former person could just be lying or otherwise twisting the truth, therefore it's important to be inclusive:

        They will try and find things that you do outside of your proffessional persona, or often infer, guess, meddle with, or lie about what you say and stand for.

  • I disagree with you. Of course having any actual point to disagree with you gets my comment removed, because Lemmy is awesome and is free speech and stuff. Yay. This shit is infuriating.

125 comments