Tellme, what did you learn from genocide, what did it change your thinking about,the things that you thought were good, but the genocide changed your opinion about them.I hope everyone shares their op
I hope everyone shares their opinion.
The phrase I keep thinking about is "If you've ever wondered what you would do in nazi Germany during the Holocaust, it's whatever you're doing right now." I'm understanding more and more why the anti-fascists did what they did, why leftists were upset with suckdems, and why so many Germans went about their business.
I feel complicit because I haven't inflicted violence on the zionist entities, yet I know how little impact that may have while throwing away my own future. Did the anarchists and Marxists feel this way as they were being rounded up by the SS? What were the soviet thinking when pogroms were occurring all over Europe before Operation Barbarossa? When was the decision made to openly resist?
The problem is that the Zionist ideology is still spreading and increasing in the world and governments. The Zionist ideology has killed millions of people in Iraq, Somalia, Vietnam, Afghanistan, and currently in Palestine and Gaza. The problem is that there is no one who is confronting this extremist Zionist ideology.
I learned that "international law" is a joke and that liberals believe in nothing
... and that liberals believe in nothing
some part of me still wants to believe it's because they're so uninformed or manipulated that they can't accept reality; but watching them cover their ears and make fun of the people dying in the genocide during the dnc convention in this last election pushes me to accept this reality.
I think it's a bit more complicated than that. I know liberals who absolutely don't turn away when I describe atrocities and agree they're tragic and worth opposing. I think the gleefully evil types are just one variety of lib, with a lot of them simply being ignorant to that, though often obstinately so.
Whats most frustrating to me is that they put in this act like they're the most informed political group on the planet when nothing is easier or lazier than landing on liberalism. Liberalism is the middle ground of a mountain valley. It's where you find yourself if you refuse to climb up and seek a better view
Of course, few before knew this, but now the truth is out in the open and known to everyone.
I learned how evil western media is willing to be.
I basically never watch regular tv, But, during the Zionazi soccer hooligan riots in Amsterdam at the time I was taking a ferry and they had the news on in one of the common areas. I remember scrolling through my social media feed and seeing the Maccabi Tel Aviv fans chant their genocidal slogans, and then looking up and seeing the newscasters report on the "antisemetic pogroms/violence" happening. Just absolutely surreal to see how the mainstream media were behaving like lapdogs in real time. And, also knowing that the overwhelming majority of people watching the news were surely thinking "God how awful to see all this violence in EUROPE no less against the poor, innocent defenceless Israelis"
There was a 12 year old journalist on the street in Amsterdam that was doing a better job at reporting what was happening than multimillion dollar television companies that report the news for a living.
The Israeli Zionists, my friend, are worse than you think. They have great hatred, malice, and racism. They only know the language of crime, because they are used to being justified in the end, by the Western media’s constant attempts to make them look like angels. But now everyone knows their true nature and the true nature of the Western media.
They always were
Yeah I learned this during the Iraq War. The whole American media was complicit in selling the lie, then pretended like it was just a thing that happened on its own. "Oh golly gee whiz this war just came out of nowhere how did this happen?"
You fuckers called anyone who doubted claims of WMDs a terrorist sympathizer.
Yes
Western media is poison, distorting the truth and justifying criminals.
it's either socialism or barbarism
this rings in my head at least once a day for the past year and a half
Definitely socialism
The Iraq War and the 2008–2009 Gaza bombings triggered in me a deep personal epiphany that led me to believe for the last 15 years that genocide (somewhere in the MENA region) was absolutely a likely possibility, even as I transitioned from a liberal to a commie that political epiphany never changed
I never articulated this belief out loud because for the longest time I wondered whether I was being a paranoid morbid cynic, turns out I wasn't, some vindication huh
The scale and viciousness of the brutality did catch me off guard, but even then I can't really say any of this has genuinely surprised me, in retrospect I now realize I had spent a decade and a half semi-consciously bracing for this reality and tracing back in many ways is the reason I became a communist in the first place
The liberal system is the primary cause of most of the destruction, killing and theft in the world. They do not care about human lives. Their primary concern is stealing money. Then they come out and talk about freedom, after they have killed and destroyed countries to plunder their wealth. It is a wonderful choice that you have become a communist.
That Palestinians are some of the strongest people on this earth
Thank you so much my friend, your words make me feel strong and proud.
Yo mahmoud I just wanna say how much I respect and appreciate the fact that you're taking time to respond to everyone's comments and post with us on hexbear dot net while undergoing a fucking holocaust. Respect my man much love stay as safe as you can with your family
Prior to the genocide I knew very little about the Israel/Palestine conflict and my views were, at best “eh, a two state solution is good???” I got all my views about Israel from surface level media and zero research. Keep in mind that I’m an older millennial so I’ve had to reeducate myself on Middle East politics due to George Bush 2000’s brain rot and political apathy.
I eventually made some new Jewish friends who went on birthright and told me that Zionism is bizarre and fascist. That prompted some research- then the genocide broke out and I started deep diving into the history of the conflict- I’ve gone from a “Idk just want 2 grill, I’m not Jewish or Arab so it’s not my place to speak on this” non-opinion to “I want to see Israel dissolved and every Zionist freak forced to rebuild Gaza by hand while they attend reeducation camps.”
Strategically I think that the genocide is the dumbest thing Israel could have done because the state has ripped off its mask of “civility” and exposed via livestream as the monstrous fascist hellhole it actually is- I just wish that it didn’t have to take the death’s of hundreds of thousands to do it. I don’t believe that Israel will be able to survive the blowback from this genocide, but I’m curious about what other people’s takes on this are.
The State of Israel was established by murder. . For 77 years, they have been killing Palestinians every day, and they also impose siege and restrictions on us. Few people knew about our suffering, but now everyone knows the brutality and Nazism of Israeli Zionism.
That Germany learned absolutely nothing from the Holocaust and would do it again in a heartbeat
And there are many who will do that, because they saw everyone silent about the injustice.
From the perspective of Western society, it made me learn that the "apolitical" people are part of the problem and I'd even say complicit in the evils enacted all across the world. There is no middle ground or abstaining side as long as you exist in the world.
I still maintain not being misanthropic, as I truly do believe people are products of their material circumstances and those material circumstances can be changed to create a better society.
Yes, what you say is true, because of their silence, injustice has increased in the world, looting, nepotism, theft and murder have increased, because they remained silent and accepted injustice.
It's amazing in a terrible way to see in real time how my country, the US, is still grandstanding as if it had any morals whatsoever while openly funding war crimes, as well as see people around me — even some who were there in the Zionist entity — genuinely act like they were the victims
genuinely act like they were the victims
Honest to god probably the most insane/absurd photo I think I have ever seen was a picture during the start of the Gaza Holocaust of an IOF soldier standing on a tank with a cardboard sign with the words "NEVER AGAIN" written on it.
It broke my brain to see that.
Yes, they kill and publicly declare their crimes, then they make themselves the victims, and the American government is the primary reason for our killing and genocide. It still claims humanity and human rights.
The genocide unearthed a lot of information I was unaware of from before oct 7, but that's like background. The genocide itself,... , I learned I lack any kind of theory to explain zionazi attitudes, and the generally racist genocidal sentiment on displau from average israelis, and even more heinous from their soldiers. I just,... I wish I knew how to think about it, because it floors me emotionally. How can people be such bastards? I learned what modern ordinance does when dropped on a bunch of tents. I know the sound a distraught father make carrying lifeless child. I know how to recognize shock. I've had to learn how to process my own emotion differently, because I've become such a raw nerve I have to keep myself from crying several times a day. I know it's just part of my political consciousness process, but my God why does letting yourself give a damn have to hurt so fucking bad? The strength and trauma coming from Palestinians is just,.... too much for me to process.
I just,... I wish I knew how to think about it, because it floors me emotionally. How can people be such bastards?
I do my best to avoid trying to wrap my head around it, because it seems like such a fruitless and maddening task. Some things are only for the hollow damned to know.
And these same soldiers, when their service ends, travel and no one holds them accountable. As long as there is no punishment for them, their brutality and injustice will increase, because there is no one to punish them. We live in an unjust world that sees the killing before its eyes and remains silent. Some of them support the criminals and finance them with weapons and money. Really thank you my friend for your humanity and feelings towards us You are truly better than what we thought our Arab brothers were, who are now financing the American government, which is the main reason for our killing. I swear to you that these feelings of yours and your support and the support of the people present here, I have not seen from those we thought were our brothers.
One lesson I took from the western student and protest movement against it is, that if possible, every group that mostly consists of newly politicized people, should be lead by Palestinians or at least by people from outside the imperial core. White western leftists can be enthusiastic about the anti-genocide cause too and can be a valuable addition to the group. But as leaders they often fall into one of two errors: taking too many risks or folding to quickly under pressure. The first is bad, because white people with citizenship have the privilege to come out of confrontations with the authorities much better, than everyone else. So they lack proper perspective. And the second is bad because it compromises our cause.
It's a general lesson for every movement: leadership should mainly include the most affected people (just like the proletariat has to free itself). They can best judge which risk to take and which point to press.
Also book clubs are less effective in introducing Marxist-Leninist ideology/theory to a group than just showing up, helping and talking to people.
Oh and negotiations (for example with city or university authorities) need to be public and on our ground (eg in the protestors encampment). If the people you send aren't trained negotiators, they need the support of the group or they will be pressured into needless concessions.
Demonstrators who support Palestine are being hounded and persecuted by those who say they have personal freedom.
I already knew how deranged the Zionist entity was from the Sword of al-Quds in 2021. The main thing October 7th has opened my eyes on is how treacherous the Arab comprador regimes really are. People like Erdogan will cry about Palestinians while Turkey continues to ship oil to the Zionist entity.
You are right, and everyone does it, including some Arab countries. We have come to realize all their lies.
I learned how much active suppression of the truth the government, the media, and the average person was willing to do. How much control the Zionist entity really does have over the US. How brave, resilient, and compassionate the Palestinian people are. It has cemented the Democrats as a hypocritical, irredeemable, hateful party of death to me. How powerless we are (in the west) to effect change, yet we watch people who are so much more powerless defy the most powerful nations in the world with empty bellies
It is good that everyone has become aware of the truth about the Western media, its deception and lies about the truth, and we are strong and resilient because of the presence of people who stand with us and help us all the time, like you.
I already knew this, but this has reaffirmed the reality for me more than ever. We cannot afford to condition our support for Palestine on Anti-Zionist Jews. This was something I particularly learned from Finkelstein but also generally during the Great March of Return. I appreciate anti-zionist Jews, but I'm sorry it does not matter if they oppose Israel. Frontloading protests with them conditions Palestinian humanity based on their empathy. If every single American Jew agreed with Bibi, the calculus would be the exact fucking same.
The irrational essence of Gentile anti-Semitism is inferred inductively from the irrational essence of The Holocaust. To wit. Hitler's Final Solution uniquely lacked rationality — it was «evil for its own sake," «purposeless" mass killing; Hitler's Final Solution marked the culmination of Gentile anti-Semitism; therefore Gentile anti-Semitism is essentially irrational. Taken apart or together, these propositions do not withstand even superficial scrutiny. 29 Politically, however, the argument is highly serviceable.
By conferring total blamelessness on Jews, the Holocaust dogma immunizes Israel and American Jewry from legitimate censure. Arab hostility, African-American hostility: they are "fundamentally not a response to any objective evaluation of Jewish action" (Goldhagen).30 Consider Wiesel on Jewish persecution: «For two thousand years ... we were always threatened.... For what? For no reason." On Arab hostility to Israel: "Because of who we are and what our homeland Israel represents — the heart of our lives, the dream of our dreams -when our enemies try to destroy us, they will do so by trying to destroy Israel." On Black people's hostility to American Jews: "The people who take their inspiration from us do not thank us but attack us. We find ourselves in a very dangerous situation. We are again the scapegoat on all sides.... We helped the blacks; we always helped them.... I feel sorry for blacks. There is one thing they should learn from us and that is gratitude. No people in the world knows gratitude as we do; we are forever grateful. "31 Ever chastised, ever innocent: this is the burden of being a Jew. 32
The Holocaust dogma of eternal Gentile hatred also validates the complementary Holocaust dogma of uniqueness. If The Holocaust marked the climax of a millennial Gentile hatred of the Jews, the persecution of non-Jews in The Holocaust was merely accidental and the persecution of non-Jews in history merely episodic. From every standpoint, then, Jewish suffering during The Holocaust was unique. Finally, Jewish suffering was unique because the Jews are unique. The Holocaust was unique because it was not rational. Ultimately, its impetus was a most irrational, if all-too-human, passion. The Gentile world hated Jews because of envy, jealousy: resentment. Anti-Semitism, according to Nathan and Ruth Ann Perlmutter, sprang from "gentile jealousy and resentment of the Jews' besting Christians in the marketplace . . . large numbers of less accomplished gentiles resent smaller numbers of more accomplished Jews. "33 Albeit negatively. The Holocaust thus confirmed the chosenness of Jews. Because Jews are better, or more successful, they suffered the ire of Gentiles, who then murdered them.
In a brief aside, Novick muses «what would talk of the Holocaust be like in America" if Elie Wiesel were not its "principal interpreter" ?34 The answer is not difficult to find: Before June 1967 the universalist message of concentration camp survivor Bruno Bettelheim resonated among American Jews. After the June war, Bettelheim was shunted aside in favor of Wiesel. Wiesel's prominence is a function of his Ideological utility. Uniqueness of Jewish suffering/uniqueness of the Jews, ever-guilty Gentiles/ever-innocent Jews, unconditional defense of Israel/unconditional defense of Jewish interests: Elie Wiesel is The Holocaust.
This is from Finkelstein's paper of the same name, not the book though parts are carried over directly.
The handicapping of anti-genocide activism in an attempt to not be cammed antisemitic is a problem. I get that optics are important, but what have good optics actually accomplished materially for Palestinians? Nothing by more slaughter.
They started killing and committing massacres against children, women, hospitals, mosques, churches, and schools, and all of this genocide, under the pretext of anti-Semitism.
That's why changing our own language in order to avoid being called antisemites is a bad move. That's not to say do fucking tropes and shit, but people like me in the States cannot let them shape the narrative and the rules of engagement
we are all gonna suffer. workers of the world were never this obedient to the most inhuman monsters ever. capitals propaganda is too good. nothing is gonna substitute ussr. workers of the world have been orphaned in 1991. we are so weak righ not
nothing is gonna substitute ussr. workers of the world have been orphaned in 1991
Nah this is erasure of all current AES states (China, cuba, vietnam). The soviet union was not the be-all-end-all of socialism
I mean Castro talked about Cuba in pretty similar terms. The USSR collapsing did not kill socialism, but it did orphan AES. They had to make compromises, they had to retreat in places. All current AES save for China are in worse circumstances today, or at least more precarious after a period of worse circumstances.
I cannot find it but I am pretty sure it was Indian Prime Minister Narashima Rao who explained why he made a neoliberal turn and betrayed all his campaign promises as "the USSR died on me"
Yes, because there were at least two opposing forces in the world, but now there is only the American government, which is the cause of evil and destruction in the world.
I learned that there are some people who will retreat ever deeper into rat's nests of hatred and denial and self-deception before ever, ever accepting that they are on the wrong side of...everything.
Yes, and we see this a lot, after the genocide.
I learned how deep zionism runs in my liberal family. They bought the israeli lie that antizionism means antisemitism, and supporting israel no matter what is necessary to prevent another Holocaust. This has torn apart jewish families around the world including my own. It makes me unbearably sad that my family backs the genocide of my friends and the bravest people in the world, and settler colonialism.
Anti-Semitism has become a justification for the crimes of the Zionists and the genocide they are committing.
I learned that the world would gleefully have another holocaust if just enough details were changed.
I get how Germans just “let it happen” as I “let it happen”
Yes, of course As long as everyone remains silent about this injustice, injustice will spread and genocide will be repeated.
i learnt what "barbarism" truly means. Before it was just in the abstract. Now it is concrete
Yes, this genocide made everyone realize and see how the Nazis did things in the past.
This country will happily willfully accept the most horrific atrocities ever as long as they get a sense of holding "teh left" at bay. There is no redeeming qualities of this country worth fighting for. This is the "Rome is Burning" days of the Empire.
The motto of the country should be changed to "EMPATHY IS THE PROFIT KILLER"
They spat on, beat, criminalized the fire fighters. They took away and criminalized any fire fighting equipment. So there's no point pissing on a blazing inferno because you can line up every fuckwad in Epstien's Black book and these fucking idiots will elect the worst of them every time. Worse - there seems to be an endless sea of Epstien fuckwads and sociopaths with trillions behind them. There is no point other than to save my money, sanity, and look for a way off this sinking ship.
The institutions can not be reformed. They like it this way. A revolution is needed and it will not happen in my life time. We tried. It isn't worth it any more. Best bet for myself is to find an affordable tropical place that won't try to kill my gay ass and enjoy what litter sanity and time I have left.
The reason for the injustice that occurs in the world is the stupid people who support darkness and sell their humanity and dignity for a little money. We truly live in a corrupt and unjust world.
I learned that genocide is not a vaccine that will prevent future genocides, it just, Fucking keeps happening. And that your country can go nuts, and you that you can't do shit to stop it.
Fucking great start to the morning! Hey everybody want some tequila? I headbutt nearby wall Fuck!
My friend, thank you very much for your compassion and humanity towards us. I hope the genocide ends soon.
I saw all your comments, I felt very happy with the amount of awareness everyone has, it is really wonderful that everyone knows the Zionists and the Western media. Thank you my friends for sharing