1y ago

Jon Stewart’s Apple TV Plus show ends, reportedly over coverage of AI and China

www.theverge.com Jon Stewart’s Apple TV Plus show ends, reportedly over coverage of AI and China

Sensitive subjects.

cross-posted from: https://lemmy.ml/post/6745228

TLDR: Apple wants to keep china happy, Stewart was going after china in some way, Apple said don’t, Stewart walked, the show is dead.
Not surprising at all, but sad and shitty and definitely reduces my loyalty to the platform. Hosting Stewart seemed like a real power play from Apple, where conflict like this was inevitable, but they were basically saying, yes we know, but we believe in things and, as a big company with deep pockets that can therefore take risks, to prove it we’re hosting this show.
Changing their minds like this is worse than ever hosting the show in the first place as it shows they probably don’t know what they’re doing or believe in at all, like any big company, and just going for what seems cool, and undermining the very idea of a company like Apple running a streaming platform. I wonder if the Morning Show/Wars people are paying close attention.

254 comments

Bummer. That’s some weak and feckless megacorp bullshit. Just like something Stewart would cover, which is why this show was such a great power move. And yet? Infinite profit over all else, so never mind.
Look at John Oliver, he talks shit about HBO constantly. Do they care? Nope, because he has more Emmys than anyone could know what to do with. Respect your talent and reap the rewards. Pretty basic stuff, Apple.
- The difference is HBO is a media company that largely operates in the US, and Jon Oliver making fun of them isn’t going to hurt their business at all. Apple is a hardware company that also makes media. And selling hardware in China is critical to their business. Since the CCP owns China, they can get their panties in a twist and just ban Apple. Like they did with government devices.
  As a publicly owned company they have a legal responsibility to maximize profit for shareholders. It’s the same reason why Twitter had to agree to the sale to Elon Musk and why they had to force it. It was a terrible move overall but since Elon was buying all outstanding shares and taking it private, the board literally had no legal choice but to take it since he was offering well over market value.
  Public companies don’t get to take moral stands when there’s money on the line. They legally have to put shareholders first.
  
  "Public companies...legally have to put shareholders first."
  I thought this too, but it is apparently a myth.
  "There is a common belief that corporate directors have a legal duty to maximize corporate profits and “shareholder value” — even if this means skirting ethical rules, damaging the environment or harming employees. But this belief is utterly false.
  To quote the U.S. Supreme Court opinion in the recent Hobby Lobby case: “Modern corporate law does not require for-profit corporations to pursue profit at the expense of everything else, and many do not.”
  https://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2015/04/16/what-are-corporations-obligations-to-shareholders/corporations-dont-have-to-maximize-profits
  
  It’s the same reason why Twitter had to agree to the sale to Elon Musk and why they had to force it. It was a terrible move overall but since Elon was buying all outstanding shares and taking it private, the board literally had no legal choice but to take it since he was offering well over market value.
  It was put to an actual shareholder vote. The individual shareholders voted yes because he was overpaying. The board was fundamentally irrelevant.
  
  Where’d did this “legal responsibility to maximize profit” bullshit come form?
  There is no such law, an no entity to enforce the responsibility.
  
  Apple is a hardware company that also makes media.
  Apple is a lifestyle company. The hardware is just the base layer.
  
  Nah, Apple is an ad aggregation company same as Google. They use hardware and software to lock users into their products so they can show them ads and collect their data to make the ads more targeted. In return ad companies pay them to serve ads to their users. That's how they make money.
  
  It was clarified that Apple devices are fine in government. Teslas ban would be a better example
- Apple is pretty reliant on China for other aspects of their business though. HBO doesn’t make phones.

definitely reduces my loyalty to the platform
You are either paying the subscription or not, your inner states mean nothing to them or us.
- I can think of an old great daily news show that still doesnt have a permanent host... please!!!..
  Or run for president.
  
  I've been saying, "Stewart for President" for decades now. He is perfect for the job. He would never want that job, which I just see as further qualification.
  
  Jon Stewart as president might be the greatest thing that could happen in my lifetime.
- Yeah you're either a meal ticket for them or you ain't.
- Well sure, point is producing Stewart’s show was a notable choice that indicated favourable things about the platform/studio.

"Let's talk about all the cheap Chinese labour that Apple uses despite being the 10th richest company in the world."
"Let's not."
- Chinese people deserve jobs too. Comparative advantage is a good thing that helps everyone involved.
  The Yuan is currently trading at 7.32 to 1 USD
  Companies that appease the CCP are the problem, not companies that leverage exchange rates to better lives globally.
  
  Chinese people deserve good jobs, not jump off of a building to kill yourself, but wait your the 4th person to do that this month so they installed a net jobs.
  
  Chinese people also deserve to not be sent to internment camps.
  
  The Yuan is currently trading at 7.32 to 1 USD
  That means nothing without knowing the total supply
  
  Boy you sure do sound like you just got your MBA. Chasing the cheapest labor and lowest regulations really doesn't do much for the populace other than make them slave laborers for better products for the benefits of other nations.
  If the wages are the same across multiple industries then it doesn't really help right? It's just taking advantage of a poor countryand enriching higher members of that country who actually do see the most profit gained.
  It might help in getting advanced manufacturing set up in the country but that actually also hurts countries that rely on advanced manufacturing to keep GDP high when they are creating their competitors while doing little investment into themselves.
  So yes it works to get the cheapest product possible but it's really not the super helpful beneficial concept that you think it is and the whole world is not richer for these jobs we give to them to enrich further a group that just chases the quickest profit.
  
  Companies that appease the CCP are the problem, not companies that leverage exchange rates to better lives globally.
  Companies in China ARE the CCP. Nothing is actually privately owned. Everything is owned by the government, so giving any money to a company in China is supporting the CCP.
  
  The Yuan is currently trading at 7.32 to 1 USD
  $3 per hour.

reduces my loyalty to the platform
Why the fuck would you have any loyalty to Apple? They sure as shit don't have any loyalty to their customers. In fact they piss in the face of their customers and tell them it's raining.
- Apple has setup their walled garden in such a way that you're basically all-in or all-out of their ecosystem. I don't know that they have brand loyalty as much as they have a captive audience that they can sell iWhatever to over and over again.
  
  they have brand loyalty
  Oh, they have some brand loyalty atleast. In my country, Apple has a miniscule market share across all domains[ laptops or phones included ]. They recently launched 2 Apple Stores in a bid to slowly extend themselves inside the market. Quoting from a news article
  Another Apple loyalist, Vivek, who waited in the queue for 17 hours to get his iPhone said, "I have been here since 3 p.m. yesterday. I waited in the queue for 17 hours to get the first iPhone at India's first Apple store.
  
  They could sell bottled water, claiming it's better than all other water and the absolute fanboys who will live and die by apple will absolutely spend a whole months paycheck and sell their liver just for a single bottle.
  
  This is, and always has been, an illusion.
  They have brand fanatics that don't want to research alternatives because most Apple users aren't even close to knowledgeable of emerging technologies outside their own ecosystem.
  Apple retains customers by making them comfortable with the fact they offer most of what they need, and in an attractive, easy-to-understand package. The walled garden makes them feel safe and connected in a world they are slowly falling out of touch with, or the world they never were in touch with (the tech world).
  I know people of all levels of intelligence that use Apple. It's not about that... But I don't know a single apple user (that has chosen that path) that's highly knowledgeable about things like modern security, privacy, and/or the true potential and limitations of modern devices.
- No, but they have at least two good sci fi series.
  
  What's the other one?
  
  Yeah I'm not gonna lie, their streaming platform is incredible but I ain't giving them any money LOL
- Hell, they tell them its apple juice and people are swallowing as if their lives depend on it. A few people i know use apple products like the iphone, and then complain when certain software doesn't run on it. I told them thats why they should have stayed with android. And they just get angry because apparently Android is for poor people?

Insert South Park Disney Mickey Mouse China meme
Big props to John for walking away.
- How did Apple not see this coming up as future conflict with it's talent. Its almost like they didn't watch the fucking show, or the causes he devoted himself to after retiring. It's a rare thing I know, but not everyone can be bought. His entire platform that he's built up over the years, would have collapsed if he had pulled a John Cena.
  
  Stewart was "edgy" in the 00s but is largely a safe bet these days. More Kimmel than Oliver.
  China was always a danger but also seems like the kind of thing that can be "this is the one topic you aren't allowed to talk about" and nobody would ever really notice.
  The real issue is AI. You can't NOT talk a bout AI at this point and that is where even liberal leaning centrists tend to have very vocal takes about the implications on labor and media.

Let this be the regular reminder that any time that a gigantic for profit corporation seems to be doing the right thing it's a mere coincidence and they are following their bottom line. The moment those two depart, they will look after their bottom line right thing be damned. There are no moral corporations.
Maybe those good things they do while are convenient to them are moral and bring real benefits and can be followed and celebrated, but ultimately they are a convenient mask to trick customers. So don't ever be loyal to a brand, be loyal to principles.

But I thought Apple was the good guy, looking out for us folk and doing privacy-focused things!
What? That's just marketing garbage? Nah, surely Apple wouldn't just be a shitty company just like everyone else. Better buy some more overpriced products to support them!
- The privacy thing was always hiding the real truth. Apple will never be able to compete with Google on ads or tracking: they have neither the engineering chops nor the reach. By being "privacy first", it saves Apple money and cuts off a little of Google's revenue stream.
  The benefit to customers was a secondary effect.
  
  Apple's stance is more effectively like "Let's get to know each other in private, babe" than "privacy first".
- Has anyone ever really believed that? It became very apparent very quickly that their MO was getting customers to buy only Apple products and then to replace them as often as they could get away with.
  
  I dunno the state of stuff now, but my MacBook Pro is from 2011 and I still use it (with some upgrades)
  And my phone is five years old, on its original battery, and is still faster than most of my friends’ phones lawl
- Money talks
  https://www.theverge.com/2022/11/10/23450967/apple-airdrop-limited-china-goverment-protests
  https://appleinsider.com/articles/21/12/07/apple-made-secret-5-year-275b-deal-with-chinese-government
  https://thehackernews.com/2021/05/how-apple-gave-chinese-government.html?m=1

Canceling Apple TV over this, knew they were spineless, but this is pathetic since it’s one of the few shows I watch on it. Growing really tired of all these service subscriptions as it is.
- Same. This is my 3rd to last subscription. The ones left standing are Spotify and Shonen Jump. Because they still deliver what they are supposed to without bullshit.
  
  Spotify suggests new artists to you based on who pays them the most. Their business model is expanding into you being the product.
  
  Spotify is nearing the cut point for me. Subbed since 2011. The UI is getting worse...
- I had Netflix and then cancelled it as a cost saving measure during COVID. I also have Prime which I never even bother with, because of it's fucking format. I wound up with an early sub to YouTube because I got completely enthralled with Time Team. I found that it pretty much has everything I want to watch. I never thought that would've happened because I initially considered YT a lower tier service.

Damn that’s a real shame, no surprise Jon walked out. That man actually has standards, he don’t need the money he was there because he cared and wanted to put out a positive voice that analyzed the bullshit we all have to deal with and his platform enabled that perfectly, just like his work for vets and burn pits.
I hope he transitions elsewhere but keeps the content as-is
- don't forget his battle with Congress to fund the 9-11 Emergency Responders

Because we all know how easy it is to silence Jon Stewart.
Something tells me he could get more funding for a show with a gofundme than Apple+ is authorized to spend.

Meh, realistically I don't think Jon does it because he needs money.
He seems like the kind of person who does things because it's the right thing to do. So taking away his platform isn't going to make him go away or shut him up.
It might take a while for him to get another one but I'm confident this guy will be on his deathbed telling people in power they suck & should do better.
We need more people like him
- Paramount is foaming at the mouth.
  
  Nebula is foaming harder. Honestly they should offer him some sort of syndication, getting Stewart on their platform would solidify them as the YouTube replacement.

We are in a dystopian future, where cooperate interests trump reporting.
Independence or the free media does not exist anymore, they are all governed by the economic interests of the 1%. Democracy is hereby dead, and nobody is fighting to save it anymore.
- Democracy offically died in America the day Citizens United was approved by the Supreme Court.
  
  Say it with me everyone - CORPORATIONS ARE NOT PEOPLE
- Nice post.

According to The Hollywood Reporter, ahead of its decision to end The Problem, Apple approached Stewart directly and expressed its need for the host and his team to be “aligned” with the company’s views on topics discussed. Rather than falling in line when Apple threatened to cancel the show, Stewart reportedly decided to walk.
Good for Jon Stewart. He held the line even when the money people demanded that he compromise. Maybe a VP pic. I could see it.
- He is successful enough, old enough and made enough money, that he can just retire. Threatening him is an empty threat. He is 60 and probably given his long career earned more than he can spend in rest of his life, unless he goes super yacht and private jet crazy.
  The whole show was a come back from retirement essentially. A voluntary indulgence on his part. Surely lucrative indulgence, but indulgence still. Apple needed him, he didn't need Apple.
  Most of the crew probably will leave for other project with a letter of recommendation from John in their pocket.

There is something particularly amusing and very ironic that a mega-corp like Apple, the most valuable company in the world, is standing up to defend a communist dictatorship and won't accept any dissent.
- Jack Ma approves of their decision.

Apple tv sucks anyway. I'd like to remind people that it's near the end of the mls season and they still have no android mobile app. They actively piss on anyone not totally in line with their ecosystem, etc.
- For what it's worth, they do have an Android TV app.
  
  Which makes the lack of an android app all the more shitty. They have one already but refuse to make it available if the device isn't connected to a TV.
  Then you get into the actual layout of the program. Spoilers are a huge issue. I can't watch a game later without having the game ruined partially. Sure you can switch off scores, but you still have to scroll through game highlights to get to the full match replay.

Looks like I'm going to continue not watching Apple TV for the foreseeable future.
- I have many subscriptions that I pay for, netflix (for now), HBO, prime.. but Apple is not one of them. I just Sail the seas when I want to watch Severance lol
  
  Severance is one of the most original shows I have ever seen. The torrent must flow
  
  Ahoy, matey

another reminder that apple's "privacy, that's iPhone" is a marketing gimmick. they profit from surveillance and censorship in China¹. elsewhere, this catchphrase has allowed them to suck Facebook's as revenue into their growing ad business, surpassing even tiktok in terms of ad revenue².
they'll happily do pink washing, but will try everything do dilute labour rights³.
so, apple is just your average big tech. nothing exceptional about them(except for them suing regular people to oblivion⁴).
in case of hitting a paywall, either disable JavaScript, or use bypass paywalls clean.
1: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/17/technology/apple-china-censorship-data.html
2: https://finshots.in/archive/apple-is-an-advertising-giant-almost/
3: a simple search result would lead you to many such cases: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=apple+labour+rights&ia=web
4: https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/11/technology/apple-trademarks.html
- They were so close to implementing on-device scanning last year it’s scary. The number of people who supported it because Apple promised to only use it for child sexual exploitation material really shocked me. “Think of the children” really does have a way of making people’s brains short circuit.
  
  It was a lot longer ago, like 2.5 to 3 years ago, but that's pedantic.
  My own father was shocked that they'd do that (his death is how I know the timeline; no sympathy required, I've dealt with it, it happens). He really respected them, primarily through my respect of them and excitedness about their tech. He was blown away that they'd even consider such a thing. He just couldn't calculate how such a misstep could happen. I can, but what a mistake that was.
  I've seen an argument that this could have been a calculated risk to prevent attacks when they enabled increased encryption. I don't think it was that, even if that was the resulting effect. They are too protective of their brand to deliberately take a hit.

Changing their minds...shows they probably don’t know what they’re doing or believe in at all
undermining the very idea of a company like Apple running a streaming platform
I'm not sure in what way it was suggested that Apple was "different", but to clarify, companies don't do things for "ideas" they do things for profit. If it increases that profit, they "believe" in it, and if it doesn't, they'll kick it to the curb.
And not only is Apple no different than any other company in that respect, they are pretty much the top-tier example of it. They're a $2 trillion company, the biggest in the world. They didn't get to that point focusing on the greater good. Nothing is more important to them than their profit.

I hope he moves to a different platform, one that's not so beholden to the Chinese audience.
- HBO already has John Oliver. Put the Jon Stewart show back to back with him.

Apple has always sucked Winnie's balls.

I didn't think my opinion of Apple could go any lower but I guess I was wrong.

Cancelled my Apple TV just now. Really enjoyed the show and not a ton of other content on there that actually came with the sub. If I’m going to have to pay anyway and you’re not supporting your good shows then what’s the point.

Stewart for President.
- Never gonna happen, unfortunately. He's already said he won't run for office, because he feels he does more useful work from outside the system, asking the uncomfortable questions that need asking, until he gets an answer.
  Don't get me wrong. I'd vote for Stewart for any office. I just know enough about the man to know that he refuses to run. He gets asked pretty regularly about it.
- POTUS shouldn't be an entry level job.
  
  POTUS should be a job filled by people with regular careers who serve their term, then return to their careers afterwards, if they don't wish to retire.
  A POTUS who is a farmer will have unique insight on how to improve the lives of farmers. Then they go back to being a farmer too. Rinse and repeat for every other job. Doctor, college professor, cybersecurity professional, engineer, astronaut, etc, etc, etc.
  Instead we just get career politician after career politician, usually with a background in law, or maybe finance.
  There should be term limit reforms that also restrict ex-office holders from continuing careers as lobbyists* and other Capitol Hill creatures. Go back to your old career after holding office, or retire.
- For real.

I would subscribe to him if he moved to patreon.
- Same here unironically
  Many of us would do it too
  Unfortunately patreon is getting worse
  
  It's just embracing the enshitification of everything.
- He might now.
- He'd be a great leading subscription for that new Grayjay app Louis Rossmann has launched https://grayjay.app
  
  stop making off topic promotions of that flawed product

I’m seeing a lot of anonymous quotes and assumptions but not a lot of verifiable facts. Sure, creative differences may have existed, but did any meaningful number of people watch the show? Even in online communities dedicated to Apple TV specifically I can’t recall seeing anything other than perfunctory mentions. Nobody ever actually talked about this show. I feel like the show was probably already on thin ice with a questionable ROI, and some likely not terribly sensational disagreement pushed it over the edge. Makes more sense than Apple caring what he says about AI, since they’ve pointedly avoided the embarrassing hype train, and clearly aren’t going to engage in the sort of exploitative “all of your documents are now our training corpus” nonsense that he’s likely to actually criticize.
- I've seen plenty of talk about the show and some of the interviews being widely celebrated. Doesn't mean that there was good ROI, but I'd also wager that plenty of people watch apple TV+ stuff without being vocal about it that much just because so many people have apple stuff and just watch whatever is "good".
- John "walking" means he quit the show, not that he was let go.
  Viewership on Apple TV will never be high, as it is a low-performing streaming service in general. It's a bad idea to lose flagship content on a struggling streaming service.
  This is a far more significant loss for Apple than it is for John Stewart.
- If anything most peoples experience with it was the sister podcast.
- Interesting how you skip over the China part entirely while you cook up an imagined narrative to hand wave away the show based on your personal feelings that has nothing to do with Jon walking.
  
  The article is based on vague claims from anonymous sources. If the claims about AI don’t make sense to begin with (and they don’t because Apple isn’t involved in any of the stuff that he might reasonably criticize), that doesn’t make me think they knew what they were talking about regarding China either. If the source is disreputable, who cares what they said? If you make two claims and one doesn’t pass the smell test, I’m not going to waste time entertaining what really happened regarding the second claim.
  Let me put it another way: there are too many real, verifiable outrageous things going on in the world for me to get my pitchfork out for something as weak on sourcing and details as this. Business agreements end for lots of reasons, and often a combination. People often have an axe to grind, especially if they were somehow involved in a deal that went south. This isn’t nearly enough for me to make any judgment.

Jon Stewart is a national treasure.

i would totally help crowdfund a jon stewart show

Yeah. Apple are the Machine
- Apple users: buys iPhone for privacy
  Apple: all your data belongs to me now

I understand that Apple relies on cheap Chinese labour...
- Probably more related to the fact that various Chinese banking companies have combined assets in the tens of trillions and if they say jump, or tell someone who relies on them to tell you to jump, then you jump.

This is the best summary I could come up with:
But ahead of production kicking off on the show’s third season, Stewart and Apple have reportedly parted ways over “creative differences,” and The Problem is coming to an end.
Though new episodes of the show were scheduled to begin shooting in just a few weeks, staffers learned today that production had been halted.
According to The Hollywood Reporter, ahead of its decision to end The Problem, Apple approached Stewart directly and expressed its need for the host and his team to be “aligned” with the company’s views on topics discussed.
Rather than falling in line when Apple threatened to cancel the show, Stewart reportedly decided to walk.
The Times’ report doesn’t detail what about the show’s planned coverage of artificial intelligence and China prompted Apple’s executive leadership to butt heads with Stewart.
But considering how pointed criticality is a big part of what ultimately made The Problem With Jon Stewart a hit for Apple TV Plus and how maintaining a cordial relationship with China is crucial to Apple’s future plans for growth, it doesn’t come as a shock to see the show hit the chopping block this way.
The original article contains 283 words, the summary contains 188 words. Saved 34%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!

reduces my loyalty to the platform
Uh? Wow! Way to show them bastards. ;)
- Not the OP, but Hey… I'm loyal to the makers of my shoes because they fit great and last. I'm loyal to my preferred food brands because they taste great and have consistent quality. I'm loyal to a book publisher because their tech books are comprehensive.
  Loyalty to a brand is not submission. It means you pick the brand over others due to positive past experiences. Don't imply that someone is a sheep for liking a company's products; you didn't say it, but it's clear that you think less of the OP for using that word.
  
  I can completely respect your perspective. Yes I was being short when I made this comment, no offense to the op was intended.
  To patronize a service because its good does not imply loyalty.
  Apple has a long history of being manipulative and exploitative of their customers. Being loyal to them (from my perspective) is like being loyal to an abusive person. You obey their commands not because of respect, but because you feel an emotional bond to them.

Sorry, Jon. This country is owned.
- He knows. He's the one who's been trying to teach that to the rest of us for decades now.

Now he and Hassam can start a new show.
- Vaush, Hasan, and Stewart. They can bring back a better version of Crossfire.

It would be on brand for Stewart, but these last two weeks have thought me one thing: wait for confirmation and watch the development before reacting

Actual source: https://archive.is/GV0tU

Someone thought Apple was being altruistic by hosting Stewart's show? What the hell would you think that for?

Well, I guess we’ve now unofficially confirmed that, despite the fact that Siri is still terrible, Apple is also investing a shitload of money in large language models behind the scenes.
- Imo, it's been pretty obvious that they have big plans for AI and Siri since 1. They've let it languish (they only do that with products they have a roadmap to fixing/replacing) 2. The new silicon has built in ML cores.
  Apple is 100% working on AI possibly a new Siri, and it's going to run locally without sending your info to the cloud.

Sad to see for Jon Stewart.
- Stewart is awesome, and I'm sure he'll bounce right back in even better shape.
- Its okay I hear the daily show is looking for a new host

Fucking cowards.

they were basically saying, yes we know, but we believe in things and, as a big company with deep pockets that can therefore take risks, to prove it we’re hosting this show
lol, they never said that. You were just being naive. They were after the money of people who like Stewart.

Freedom of the press comes to an end when Apple is in the house 😧
- Even taken at its face value, this allegation is literally an example of freedom of the press in action. Freedom means the ability for a publisher to choose what they publish. That includes telling staff no.
  
  To appease whom?

Oof. I got banned on reddit once for saying that stewart is no longer as good as i remember (but it was in a thread about some trans-issue so of course the mods went full hitler).
To be honest i don't understand what he was expecting to happen in such a highly sanitized garden as apple's. It's so clearly not made for him

When will authoritarian regimes understand that critique ultimately does not matter much?
- The ability to foment revolution is what gets authoritarian regimes into power in the first place, no wonder they want to close the door behind them.
  
  Revolutions come from material conditions not from people running their mouth in shows. In no world there is any danger from Jon Steward to Chinese regime. His effect even on US politics (outside his direct activism - which is obviously different) is rather neglect-able - after quite some time he has been on air.

"Reports are not clear, but it's probably China's fault." 🙄
- Sounds more like apple not wanting to jeopardize their relationship with china

254 comments