The average car purchased in 2023 emits higher levels of carbon dioxide (CO₂) than its 2013 equivalent. This is due to the large proportion of SUVs in the mix, which tend to be bigger and heavier.

This video here explains one of the issues one minute in. Definitely worth a watch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fh4H9qZ-_6Y&t=55

The way car companies are working around this legislation is why it's so hard to find and buy smaller sized cars (like smart cars) even if there is demand. It also makes our community less safe for pedestrian traffic.

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I wish wagons were more popular. They're great for fitting all the stuff in for the family, but lighter and much better handling. I don't know why SUVs became the thing, but I wish wagons would be a come-back. A Tesla wagon would be awesome.

also interesting is how few car makers even produce normal sized cars anymore, let alone smaller ones.

https://www.newsweek.com/its-hard-find-small-car-us-thats-not-going-change-soon-1808174

Interesting that this is focused on the UK and mentions Europe. I (like other commenters) expected this was about the US market before I read the article.

That would mean they were subject to EURO emissions regulations.

I think it's beyond time to get rid of the "light truck" classification for suvs.

There's an interesting corollary to this in the school bus world. Beginning in 2004, the EPA started imposing emissions standards on diesel engines and the standards have become increasingly stringent over the years. The standards govern the allowed amounts of NOx (nitrous oxides) and particulate matter to be emitted, but the units measured are per-horsepower-miles, meaning that an engine with twice the horsepower is allowed to emit twice the NOx and twice the particulate matter amounts, which has led to bus engines that have much more power than their counterparts from twenty years ago did - despite this added power being largely unnecessary for hauling kids around at relatively low speeds.

And importantly, the EPA diesel engine standards do not in any way govern CO2 output, so today's school bus fleet is emitting far more of it than twenty years ago.

I don't remember the name of the effect, but it seems to happen a lot of times when newer technologies makes things consume less. People end up consuming more, either by increase of size, duration of use of using more of the thing.

What if instead we had Less Cars and more Public Transit?

It seems like the growth of trucks should play a big part of it, too. When I was young the majority of vehicles on the road were cars. Where I'm at, at least, it seems like the majority of people are driving trucks with a large minority of crossovers, and the occasional 10 year old car.

You can thank the EPA and their CAFE standards for that.

Someone pointed our interesting loop in US legislative about trucks and how producers are making their cars bigger to escape small trucks hard mile/gas / size quotas + lobbying of car makers to keep the trend going because bigger car = more profit. I wonder how big they can get them before them trucks can't drive in single line. Is there something similar to SUV by any chance?

anyone who buys an SUV is a stupid fucker. there are other types of cars that have just as much unnecessary seat space in them. if you bought an SUV I'm talking directly to you and I'm calling you an idiot to your face. on the internet.

There is also that pesky light truck exemption the USA has held on to for decades.

I wonder if something similar comes into play in the European market as well.

Let's not point the finger at anyone for having stupidly big cars cough 🤧 US cough 🤧

Rollie Williams and Nicole Conlan from Climate Town on YT talked about this on their podcast, The Climate Denier's Playbook, a few weeks ago.

Car companies, at least domestic ones, are subverting fuel economy rules by making cars "like trucks" due to a loophole in the code about Light Duty vehicles (SUVs are light duty trucks and hence get around requirements that other, smaller light duty vehicles have imposed on them).

It's the same reason we see bigger and bigger trucks that look like tanks and that you can't see children from. Those bigger vehicles require bigger engines to move, hence more greenhouse emissions.

This is almost an "arms race" situation, since when there are so many gigantic SUVs and pickup trucks on the road, driving in a smaller car becomes a lot less safe in case of an accidental collision with a larger, heavier vehicle, and the only way to reduce that risk is to drive a gigantic SUV/pickup truck yourself and further exacerbate the problem.

Having this many large vehicles on the street makes driving on the highway dangerous and unpleasant. LA's traffic is especially terrible.

There's a video that the longer the wheelbase of the vehicle the less stringent it has to be on fuel economy. Something about the 2008 or so cafe laws. Lots of older cars without direct injection get better fuel economy than newer ones that are just taller with the same interior capacity.

I'm the city centre where I live, I'm allowed to drive a gigantic petrol 4x4 because it was made in 2021. A friend ours can't take their 2010 petrol Polo in because they'll be charged a congestion charge for their emissions.

A lot of so called environmental legislation is just hidden taxes on the poor masquerading as progressiveness.

Fuck congestion charges and fuck anyone who thinks that the average person can make a dent on this shit when companies and governments around the world continue to funnel more toxic and permanent chemicals into our environment every day than 1000 individuals will in their lifetime.

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Fuck SUVs.

Do we need another oil price shock to teach people a lesson again?

And we did this to ourselves to make pickups in the USA not be required to have additional licensing. We did before Ragan if I recall correctly.

Edit

4 replies and they are fixated on Ragan. Didn’t state he was repossable or not. Here is a good video about this. https://youtu.be/jN7mSXMruEo?si=7PsOF-WE8MXX87vX

CAFE should just differentiate by unibody and body/frame.

Make unibody have a high requirement.

You want a truck? You can have a truck.

And get rid of paying your way out of your mileage requirement. Or at least raise the rate astronomically.

2013 was just 3 days ago

World or US?

I wonder how motorcycles have fared? Motorcycle engine emissions seem to work different than car emissions. One thing I see a lot of is engines that were designed in the 80's or 90's (or 40's, if it's the right Royal Enfield) and are still sold now basically unmodified. You can buy a 2023 Suzuki DR650 right now today, and it will still have an air cooled engine with a carburetor on it.

But tightening emissions regulations have started to push out some of these engines. There probably won't be a 2024 DR650. The air-cooled Sportsters can't be sold in the EU now, and it won't be long before they're gone in the US.

I went from a 2009 Suzuki with the most simple of engines to a 2023 Harley with fuel injection, and overhead cams with variable valve timing. It has got to be a cleaner running engine, but I wonder how it compares to cars?

So, are they bigger and heavier, or are they equivalent?

Ive recently replaced the engine, but I hope to keep driving my 08 Speed3 for another decade. It's annoying having everything else in the road so much larger, but I don't want anything this size.

#RejectSUVEembraceMiniVan

I got a CRV hybrid that gets 2mpg less than my wife's 2012 civic manual

Meanwhile here I am driving a little 2L manual fiesta (ST150/XR4). Not great, but not bad mileage, but fun AF to drive, and lightweight. It only has a 45L tank, as opposed to a 60-100L tank you find in larger cars.

Then there's also the fact I only drive on weekends or after work. I use public transportation for my commute to work.

Jokes on them, still using an SUV from 2001 over here.

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If you drive a pickup truck and the bed isnt used for something you couldn't use a normal car trunk for at least a dozen times a year, you're an idiot and I will accept no rebuttals.

Haha, checkmate! Mine emits zero anything!

I work in the auto industry. Besides the standard 4WD, SUVs have almost nothing going for them compared to a 5 door hatch/station wagon/estate sedan.

I mean, a RAV4 for example, while doing everything it says on the box, and not being an outright bad vehicle, has only marginally more passenger and cargo room than, for example, a Corolla Hatch, while consuming multiple MPG more. Sure, the 4WD contributes to this, but due to the lower weight, better aerodynamics, and smaller engine of a Corolla, it would still be more efficient even if it also had 4WD.

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This is good because when the world goes to shit while the sun is cooking us alive and people want to use my shelter in the post apocalypse, I can tell them all to fuck off without feeling bad for them.

Idk why I like SUV. I don't need one, I know I shouldn't have one, yet I'd like to own one. I hate sedan for absolutely no reason.

I just learned about the Tyre Extinguishers. They use lentils to depress the pin on the valve cap of an SUV's tyre, so that the tyre deflates without getting damaged. It's super effective and it's not a crime. They are called the Tyre Extinguishers.

Yeah I call bullshit. People don’t want modern cars because they are low to the ground, smaller and harder for people to get into.

As a 6’2” dude every time I get into a rental car I smack my head and have to contort myself to get in and out. There is also never enough room for anything beyond a few suitcases. I always breathe a sigh of relief when I get back to my truck after a long business trip in a car.

Crossovers and trucks are popular because they have space and are easier to get out of. Full size cars from the 80s tend to be way bigger than full size cars from today. Once cars started shrinking and getting lower to meet EPA mileage requirements which is also the same period of time when people started abandoning cars for trucks and SUVs in the 90s.