Get out and vote!

Slightly OT, but this is also why we absolutely need ranked voting ASAP. How much better would a candidate like Sanders do if people knew that voting for him as first choice and Biden as second was possible?
- Well he lost the primaries, which is when you vote for the candidate you really want. But he lost the primaries because the DNC aired a never ending stream of bullshit telling the people it was impossible for Sanders to win, and then pointing to the current super delegate polls as evidence. Idk why people are terrified of voting for a losing candidate in the primaries though. Who gives a fuck if your vote loses in the primaries? You should vote for the candidate you want, not the one you think is going to win. It's not a casino bet.
  
  The closed primary system is just so fucked in general, these are private organizations that can do whatever they want, the DNC and the RNC.
  I still don't like Debbie Wasserman Schultz. She was literally marched out of the DNC office because of the bias she showed towards Hillary Clinton in leaked emails. Then she gets hired by the Clinton campaign!
  Shit was so crazy.
  
  The thing is, because the final vote for president isn't ranked choice, the spoiler effect is also spoiling the primary. People will vote for the candidate they think can will at the national level, else Trump might win.
  If you had ranked choice voting at the actual election, only then would the spoiler effect be fixed.
  
  Now no offence to the US political system but the primaries are a symptom of a two party system.
  Without them and with ranked choice voting, y'all would have had Sanders (edit: in 2016) and we wouldn't be having this discussion.
  Much love. I mean it.
  
  The left-ish party did the exact same thing to Teddy Roosevelt in 1916. They chose to fall on their sword and get a slavery denier in office rather than let the somewhat progressive (for the time) Roosevelt be their candidate (at the time, Roosevelt was allowed to run for a 3rd term). Liberals do not care about making things better, they care about protecting the status quo. Roosevelt would have won if not for liberal interference via their backing of Taft, just like Bernie would have.
  
  Yes, but I remember numerous people being like "Well he could never win against Trump, so I'm voting for Biden."
- Ranked choice isn’t that much better. It is better, but very slightly. We need to implement STAR, which is vastly better even at its worst. Essentially, it’s just a 0-5 vote for candidates, and any empty is a 0. It allows you to rank some at the same and then some as “better than nothing” leading to a well rounded choice that most people approve of.
- People love ranked choice voting but not whats involved with getting it instituted.
  
  Can you elaborate?
- Could pls explain what OT stands for?
  
  Off topic
- Or, you could support candidates that support racked choice voting (who are mostly liberals). That sort of thing happens locally and at the state level.

This is posted in political humor, but unfortunately, it's not a joke.
- Nor do I find it humorous.
  But one day I hope I can laugh about it.
  
  Probability you will cry instead is 100%.
- I am not familiar with the US system. Is it really realistic that a US president can abolish or fundamentally change the rules around the democratic process?
  
  Not him specifically, but there are multiple plans and machinations in motion, by other Republicans, to stack every level of government with 10s of thousands of loyalists who will do whatever they want, so that if he tried 2020 again, they'll just roll over and enact it.
  
  A lot of our best institutions are based on gentleman's agreements. If our representatives must ignore the processes we've come to expect, because those processes were never actually written down or coded into law... Yeah, the president has an unbelievable amount of uncheckable power to make the government just not run as intended.
  The basic hypothesis is that if the president did something treasonous, he could be arrested by the military, who are sworn to protect the Constitution.
  He couldnt change the rules, because our legislators do that, and its all written in the Constitution. But he could fail to appoint people, appoint people to multiple cabinet positions, or some other weird ways to get around this.
  
  They're similar to the shit he's tried before. If people do their jobs there's no room for him to succeed.
  
  No, what you're reading here is over the top fear mongering to try and get people to vote for their side. That why everyone who doesn't toe the line are now "facist." Because if you can get people to become afraid they'll vote against their own interests (and as much as they like to claim they do, the DNC in no way is working in our own interests)
- Politicalhumor both on Reddit and here is for agendaposting. There is no funny to be had.
  And before you down vote me, I'm not republican or conservative in any fashion.
  
  Idk.. what you just said made me laugh, so...

As a Canadian looking from the outside in, it really does seem to be trending in that direction… any further Republican wins will mean the end of democracy, with America sliding into a ChristoFascist Autocracy.
I fear for my American neighbours, but we have similar problems up here; we just happen to be a decade or so behind you folk.
- Land of the free capital
  
  Unless you are broke ass. Then no capital for you
- can you really call this two party system a democracy
  
  No. Did you know they wanted to send international observers for the last election because of worries that the US no longer adheres to democratic process? They were turned away, of course.
  You know, like in third world nations and dictatorships.
  
  The democracy in the US is not considered a "real" democracy where I come from
- PP is absolutely taking notes.
- Also Canadian. We are certainly on the same path. It feels like everyone around our part of the country is a "fuck Trudeau" type that just clearly wants the 1950's to return and women where they should be. As a very liberal but not so political person it's kinda scary.
  
  If you remember when Trudeau was first elected, they called him the Selfie King or some idiotic shit like that. Like, the fact that he took photos with young people is somehow a reason to hate him. The propaganda and astroturfing has been ongoing for 8 years. It's called "foreign interference".
- A republican win does not mean the end of democracy, just like it didn't last time.
  
  It actually potentially does. I'd suggest looking into Project 2025. If you're not familiar with it, it's a political battle plan being put forward by a bunch of hard-right think tanks with substantial connections which would effectively establish a theocracy in the US. My understanding is that part of the plan hinges on the president basically removing anyone who can stop him and replace them with sycophants (which they're currently populating a list of). The idea is that if they're able to remove enough people, they can do whatever they want. They don't need a majority in the supreme court or house of representatives because they can just ignore them; the sycophants will follow whatever orders they're given regardless of what the house or court says.
  To put it another way, they've realized the house and scotus only have power if that power is respected; if they remove anyone in-between the president and the other branches who'd say "no" and replace them with yes-men, then there's no one to stop the president from doing whatever he wants. That said, I'd be willing to bet the moment the president says "no" to the scotus is the moment they'll make a show of how much power they truly have, but it'll get really bloody if that happens.
  
  Just like it didn't last time because we managed to avert the attempt? You're right, let's give the same people another go, I'm sure they've given up on that idea by now.
  
  Project 2025.

This was the same promise in 2020. And yet here we are. Democrats should have done better than beg to save democracy one more time.
- Preserving democracy was never going to be a single-step solution process. It takes consistent, persistent work to not only expand, but to just maintain our liberty for all. It's a tower defense strategy game.
  At the close of the Constitutional Convention of 1787, a lady asked Benjamin Franklin “Well Doctor what have we got, a republic or a monarchy.” Franklin replied, “A republic . . . if you can keep it.” This existential threat has always been there and it's something to always be wary of. It's exhausting, but it's worth it. Freedom ain't free.
  
  It wasn't really a concern until recently. We didn't have constant threats against democracy from within our own government when I was a kid.
- “You ever notice whenever the republicans do something terrible or prevent something good from happening, it’s always the democrats fault?” -Fucking idiots everywhere.
- Nina Turner said it years ago.. our "choices" were a full bowl of sh!t or a half bowl of sh!t... https://youtu.be/X1ObX0iDRjo
- can you really call this two party system a democracy
- Yeah but we don't have to eat shit to survive do we? So why the fuck are we acting like Biden was our only choice. What kind of stupid analogy is this?
- In 2028 a mummified version of Biden will be put forward as candidate until 2032, when a new act in place allow for digital avatars to be president and digital Obama comes back with Yes We Can, Again!
- And it will happen again and again since the DNC and DGA fund fringe GOP candidates as an ongoing tactic. But that unhappy fact will take a few more election cycles before the non-political folk catch on to the grift.
  
  The new existence of this fringe took everyone left of Lindsey Graham by surprise in 2016. It's not conspiracies all the way down. These people exist and the sooner we realize the center is not where we imagined it was the sooner we can get on with governing and protecting the whole country and not just the little blue parts that like us.
- Not only that but what is Biden going to do for climate in the next 4 years? Like really... He sucks
  
  He's still the best option as sad as that is
  
  Banning gas cars and giving more funds for green energy. Meanwhile orange man wants to increase the usage of fossil fuels. Could be more but could also be less.
  
  You realize Biden's signature legislation added massive funding to the development of solar and wind power as well as funding a huge expansion of electric chargers across the country?
  
  More than what Trump will do.

I don't know much about US politics, but is Biden the only choice you have besides voting for Trump? There's zero alternatives? I've seen in the comments that people prefer Biden to other democrat candidates, because he already beat Trump already, so it has better chances to beat him again. But realistically, it seems like everyone hates Trump with a burning passion, so any Democrat that is not batshit insane and totally incompetent would beat him, right? Seems like an easy win.
- It's a first past the post system with only two major political parties. That means the choice is either the selected Democrat or the selected Republican, who are elected via a complex primary process that differs from state to state.
  Voting third party in the U.S. achieves absolutely nothing. Especially when there are almost never third party choices for lower office, aside from the libertarians and they're nuts. If you are determined to not vote for any Democrats or Republicans, your vote has the same effect as staying home and not voting.
  I would love this to change, but I don't foresee that happening anytime soon.
  
  Hey, chin up. If the batshit nuts right wing of the GOP keep going the way they are maybe we'll get a brand spanking new fascist third party. Lol, third party achieved!
  Tangent for a moment: I'm kind of curious, if we could somehow encourage more stupidity on the right. Perhaps, the GOP would fracture into two parties.
  In the short term, it could give Dems a large say in everything. Bolstered by the fact that the hard right is very performative and not really interested in doing any real work. In the more medium term, maybe that would finally give some freedom to open the door for more Dems and voters to peel off into yet another party.
  I guess at that point, the danger is the right would then realize the situation. Rally their fractured party and completely ice out Dems and whatever left party that came out of the above. Multipolar politics at the party level could get really freaking scary too.
  
  I guess their point was "maybe the Democrats may choose someone else for the next elections"
  The answer stays the same, likely, that they don't have many to choose from, I dunno ¯(ツ)/¯
  
  It does not achieve absolutely nothing. It sends a message of policy requirements to obtain a percentage of votes. Meaning, if dems lose enough elections by a margin that is seen voting elsewhere they will have to move their policy to secure those votes and start winning again. The problem now is with trump threatening our freedoms and democracy, we can't afford to teach those stubborn centrists a lesson in true progressive policy.
- So what you're talking about is a primary contender from the democratic party, but generally the incumbent party doesn't have a primary for the president. Your only real options are the Democrat (Biden, unless he dies), or the Republican (looking like Trump, but they will have a primary). You can vote for other people, but it doesn't do anything. You might as well try to get the better option than choosing not to vote out of spite, and getting whatever happens regardless.
  
  looking like Trump, but they will have a primary
  Or unless he dies. He's basically the same age as Biden and unlike Biden hasn't taken care of himself.
- Correct. That's how a 2 party system works. You vote for the lesser of 2 evils.
- There's zero alternatives?
  Well, no, but actually yes.
  Legend tells that the primaries are where the vote for your candidate of choice actually counts, but as 2016 showed, they are allowed to and will happpily ignore it in favor of the party's selected ghoul.
  So, yeah, it's a pick between the mostly bad and the completely utterly awful.
- I'm an American and so far as I'm aware, 70% of the country would vote for a wet sock if over Biden if only one would run.

Weird, I was sold almost the exact same line in 2020.
- It’s almost like the same totalitarian is running on the GOP ticket.
  
  It's almost like he already won in 2016 and lo and behold, we can still vote again 4 years later.
- Annnd thennnnnn.... what happened on Jan 6th?
- Really? Can you cite this? The Internet was around then. Should be easy to find an equivalent quote like, say, Cheney's.
- Did something change since 2020?
- “You are promising America tonight, you would never abuse power as retribution against anybody?”
  “Except on Day One,”
  Oh look. An exact quote where Trump says he'll abuse power. Go ahead. Still waiting for a prior election "exact same line"
  Come on. Should be easy!
- And then they actually tried to do exactly what the meme predicts. We are just lucky that the magas were too stupid

Joe Biden has the authority to resign. Joe Biden can choose to not run in 2024. If he cared about preserving democracy, he would let someone more electible take his place.
If things go wrong, it's the fault of the people in power.
- Joe Biden has already beat Donald Trump in an election. More electable makes no sense in this context.
  The only way Biden could lose is if some of the people who voted for him last time, after everything that's happened since Trump lost the election, decide 'ehh, that Trump guy wasn't so bad, let's give him another shot' and decide not to vote against Trump.
  
  Biden won an election during Covid lockdown where he wasn’t expected to actually campaign. I don’t think he can win again. It’s sad, but he’s an awful candidate.
- The incumbent president has only lost 10 times in US history (and one of those was Trump). Biden already beat Trump once. Who has a better resume than that?
  Seriously. Tell us a name.
  
  Not to mention Biden actually had a great run and got a shitload done, but this is what you get when you have 24/7 banana republic propaganda blaring in people's homes.
- Why isn't he electable? He was already elected. Are you saying he's old? Trump is 3 years younger. Before Biden, Trump was the oldest president of all time.
- "This" 🙄
- Came here to say this. If the dems actually cared about winning and preserving any last inkling of democracy the states still has then they would replace Biden with literally any other candidate.
  
  I'm all ears, who would be the better candidate? Because I want that person running for Senate in all the states that might be up for grabs.
  The president won't matter if we lose control of the Senate AND the house. Well either be fucked or stuck in a deadlock like we are now

I look at this fom a far and i wonder: Why do the democrats not just get a younger more capable person to vote for?
- Because they're part of the system run by the wealthy and powerful, and younger peeps not only have to claw their way into that microcosm, but are often then bought out / corrupted by that very system.
- Because they're internally struggling against them.
- Democrats are a party of capital, which resist the young for two reasons:
  They do not hold capital in any capacity that can be compared to older generations
  As a result, they are overwhelmingly more anti-capital than previous generations.
- In practice the Democratic Party establishment simply does not want a younger or more capable person.
  Old and/or ineffectual is the perfect candidate for the corporate donor class.
- Because Biden's flaw isn't his age. That's the propaganda. Biden's flaw is that most of America are mouth-breathing retards that don't understand what political ideology is and vote for the guy who says "it's not your fault, it's that guy's fault!"
  
  the guy who says "it's not your fault, it's that guy's fault!"
  Aren't that both of them?
- Because they are as corrupt as the Republicans are. The democratic party will never fix America only a third party can.
  
  The 'viable' third party candidates in my lifetime so far have been Ross Perot, Ralph Nader and RFK, Jr. None of them had a real chance and all of them were one flavor or another of crazy.
  So maybe a third party can fix things, but none of the ones that have ever had a chance within the past 46 years.
  
  ROFL!
- How would that help old fucks like Feinstein (rest in piss), Pelosi, Biden et al make more money or their corporate masters though?

- It's not a democracy, and those are very much features.
  
  Nah, it's bugs. This shit is 234 years old. The failure of fptp nor primaries was part of the plan.
- Democracy 0.0.1alpha1
  
  DemoCrac-y 0.0.1alpha1*

As we all know, politics only happens when you vote for president every 4 years.
- It's kind of the main thing that decides who the leader is. What's your point?
  
  That most political action happens outside of voting for president. Ofc having a friendly presidency helps a lot for all the other political action, and rn its a choice between an Establishment Dem and a fascist, but having a friendly presidency alone does little for real change.

This is the same tired line we have to hear every 4 years. It's been a substitute for concrete policy and it's gotten all of us nowhere.
- Definitely not the same. Please cite when this concern was raised in a previous election?
  Any prior candidates encouraged a mob to attempt an insurrection?
  Any other candidates collect classified material and refuse to hand it back?
- Let's pour some concrete then
  Did he deliver on everything? Of course not, campaign promises are as much aspirational as anything. But speaking of concrete, he was part of the badly needed infrastructure package, which had reached the point of a joke under the Trump administration (infrastructure week!)
  
  The issue with Biden is that he represents the greater issue with having different flavors of Capitalist parties, and nothing else, within American electoralism.
  Leftists will never be able to be satisfied with a lukewarm liberal president, whereas fascists get to gleefully vote republican and have their views validated.
  As such, elections are a matter of harm reduction for leftists, while meaningful change must be done at the grassroots level.

Maybe the democrats should pull their heads up from their asses and realize that "vote for us or else" doesn't have the rallying power they think it does, especially when they're repeating it every election cycle.
Just some thoughts from someone outside the US.
- It's like they don't actually care and are actively courting fascism to use it as a boogy man rather than helping change things for the better.

We literally do not live in a democracy according to a bunch of empirical studies, and also according to basic material analysis.
The opinion of the masses is never reflected in our government.
Does your politics begin and end at participating in sham elections? Why aren't you encouraging people to take meaningful political action?
Imagine being Russian and the extent of your political activism is encouraging people to vote Putin out.
That's how ridiculous you are.
- What is your definition of "meaningful political action"? Picking up guns? Got news for you, the government has more of them.
  Voting starts at the local level. You vote people into local city government who reflect your views and values. Those people often enough have greater aspirations and want to move up in the political machine. It's extremely rare for someone to be vaulted from average Joe to major political player in one leap. Trump was able to do it by being a populist piece of shit who could pay his way into office.
  You have to start small. Get your city council to look like you, then move on to the county, the state, etc.
  
  Meaningful political action includes raising class consciousness, it includes materially supporting strikes and protests, if you wanna pick up guns, cool, but there's a spectrum of things you can do that are more helpful than voting for whoever isn't Trump, and safer than openly picking fights with the pigs.
  
  What is your definition of “meaningful political action”? Picking up guns? Got news for you, the government has more of them.
  Do you really think the two options for politics are voting in sham elections and WACO?
  Voting starts at the local level. You vote people into local city government who reflect your views and values. Those people often enough have greater aspirations and want to move up in the political machine. It’s extremely rare for someone to be vaulted from average Joe to major political player in one leap. Trump was able to do it by being a populist piece of shit who could pay his way into office.
  You have to start small. Get your city council to look like you, then move on to the county, the state, etc.
  Local elections are also pretty much a "which landlord can pay the most money and be the least repulsive"
  You have to build parallel power structures before you can meaningfully influence any electoral structure, including local ones.
- What meaningful political action do you propose?
- We live in a republic democracy which, yes, differs from an outright democracy.
  
  We do not live in a republic democracy, we live in a republic dictatorship of capital.
- You have a laughably erroneous perspective on the matter. This isn't Russia my guy.
  
  You do realize your comment is just "You're wrong!" with more flowery language right?
- We literally do not live in a democracy according to a bunch of empirical studies, and also according to basic material analysis.
  As far as I know, there is one study, and even that is under dispute on secondary analysis of the underlying data.
  
  Okay, now analyze how public opinion is formed and who owns the mechanisms that form it
- This is just untrue though.
  
  This is just untrue though

Fuck em both I’m voting for Brandon.
- Dark Brandon?
  
  No, star of The Crow Brandon Lee. He's been dead for 30 years, but I'm pretty sure he'd still do a better job than either of the current options 🤷

It's sad how the US spends trillions on defense, when all it takes to seize control over the nation is some bottom tier Dollar Store propaganda that any third world nation could afford.

Most lib shit ever. "Every election is the most important one". When are people going to realize you are always voting for rich fuckers who don't care about you
- Lots of lib copium in the comments too.
- it's just a matter of whether you're voting for the rich psychopath or the rich geriatric.
  seems an easy choice to me
- This is not a relevant argument.

Man the Democratic Party this election cycle has just been working overtime to invite the conversational wedge between 'saving american democracy from fascism' and 'voting against Trump.'
I guess that's what the donor class wants this time: "Do nothing but vote."
- It’s what they want every time. Obama had to be shoved down their throats.
  
  At first. He campaigned as a progressive the first time, but they soon taught him how to govern like a Clintonesque neoliberal 90%+ of the time while constantly promoting the (at the very most) 10% of what he did as president that benefitted regular people more than the already rich and powerful, their corporations and their hedge funds.
- "Do nothing but vote for who we tell you to vote for."

More like "It doesn't matter how you vote, the evil party is going to win because the slightly-less-evil party just lost a large chunk of their voter base because funding a ethnic genocide in the middle east was a hill they were dying on"
Do your part by voting for the slightly less shit party, but don't be surprised when it happens anyway, they're counting on it. They want it. Whenever they need to do something evil they can just throw the election so the republicans can take the hit for them, just like every time.
- Buy guns. No matter who wins, you may need them.
  
  Arm yourself and your community.
- STOP VOTING FOR GENOCIDE YOU FUCKING GHOUL. It's not hard.

There are no next gen democrats. They only think one single election at a time.
- That's... untrue.
  
  It's kind of true. Anyone who can see the bigger picture realize that voting in America is little more than a false dichotomy. Both parties have the exact same interests, with the republicans being more open about what they want and the democrats playing more social justice lip service.
- I don't like him, but that's clearly not true because Gavin Newsom has been running for 2028 for months now. Why do you think he just debated DeSantis and praised Biden?

Oh, I'm sure they would still hold elections. But your options would be even more limited. "Sorry, but the other parties just didn't run any candidates for this election. Imagine that."
- That's why these scare tactics are probably going to backfire. The kinds of people who would consider voting for Trump are largely the kinds of people who will continue to have just as much opportunity to vote.
  Trump's team would definitely make it harder for black people to vote. His people would find a way to disenfranchise women. His team will probably find a way to block certain candidates, but there will still be Republican primaries, and then people will still get to vote for the Republican and against the token Democrat.
  White rural males would still be allowed to vote. That's both because they vote for the "right people", so it's safe to let them keep voting. The Trump team could also continue to point to them and claim that US democracy is strong. And, it's important that those people continue to believe that under Trump democracy still exists, because white male urban voters will turn on Trump if they think he's taking away their rights.
- News Flash: We are already there in a lot of districts and the entrenched Capitalist parties like it that way. Maybe stop voting for them? It's the least you can do.

This is the only argument left for Democrats.

there's a 19yo candidate ? looks like I'm completely out of the loop
- That would not be legal. The Constitution mandates that the president has to be at least 35 years old.
  
  Which is kind of a pointless requirement considering only 2 presidents in the last century have been under 50.
  
  no way ! didn't know that
- Wonky font. It is 79.
  
  shit I see it now thx

I vote for old person

and here are the results of the strategy of voting for the lesser evil
What do our findings say about democracy in America? They certainly constitute troubling news for advocates of “populistic” democracy, who want governments to respond primarily or exclusively to the policy preferences of their citizens. In the United States, our findings indicate, the majority does not rule—at least not in the causal sense of actually determining policy outcomes. When a majority of citizens disagrees with economic elites or with organized interests, they generally lose. Moreover, because of the strong status quo bias built into the U.S. political system, even when fairly large majorities of Americans favor policy change, they generally do not get it.
- That's amazing counterpoint you mustered there.
- Yes, voting for the lesser evil on its own is not enough.
  If you have more resources, you should be organizing in other ways. Spread information. Building other power structures. And voting for the lesser evil.
  If you don't have resources to spare, just vote for the lesser evil. It will give the people who are able to change the system more time. At the vary least, it might give some people a couple more days to enjoy life.
  Just because something won't solve the problem doesn't mean it doesn't help.
  Don't give up! They want you to give up and roll over. They might get what they want. I can't predict the future. But let's win, or make them work for it. Don't just give them what they want.
  
  Building alternative power structures, mutual aid networks, and unionizing are precisely the things people should be focusing on. People should study at what labour organization looked like at the start of the 20th century to see what real political leverage looks like. Voting on its own doesn't accomplish much of anything, and as the study shows the end up getting their way vast majority of the time.
  
  You know what helps as far as voting goes? Not voting for the entrched parties. Every vote they get, keeps their position more secure. Do other stuff. But when it comes to voting do not give them ANY support. Best is voting for someone closest to your ideals, second best is not voting, actively detrimental is voting either R or D.

It's still a year out why do we have to believe these are our only two options.
- Probably because the DNC is cancelling primaries in states like Florida to hand the Democratic party to Biden without even acknowledging that there are other people in the race and he has to compete in a democratic primary before he becomes the democratic candidate.
  
  It's so hilarious. "Vote democrat or you will lose your right to vote!"
  takes away your right to vote
  
  So besides the current facts, and the history of primaries, you are saying there is still a chance? /s

This was the exact shit said in 2020 and for years before that. There is no 'next generation Democrat' because the Dems are just as complicit in this farce as the Republicans. I refuse to vote for the party of "maybe we'll try to slow the rapid descent into christofascist capitalism just a little a bit, as long as it doesn't make the shareholders mad."
- Oh? Please cite those statements.
  Given your claim they will need to be exact same statements. "exact" your words. Not "close". Not "basically the same". Exact.
  So. Go on. Do it. For 2020 and 2016. Since that is your claim.
  If you cannot find the "exact" same statement then you failed.
  
  Tell you what. I'll even ignore the ecological fallacy you all love.
- It's called "compromise" to make progress. Giving up allows the situation you're complaining about to only get worse.
  We have to change our voting system in order to break out of the two party system, and only one of the two parties have people that support changing our voting system for the better. So, as shitty as it is, not voting Democrat is effectively voting against your own interests.
  
  Dems have to do something beyond sad attempts at change if they want my vote. Oh what, if i don't fall in line the republicans will win? Wow i guess the democratic party will need to become significantly more progressive.
  
  We have to change our voting system
  You think that one of the two major parties will help you do away with the voting system that favors the major parties? This is not how it works. Having a few people that support change in the party is meaningless as long as it is not a stated objective (which it isn't)
  
  So we're supposed to keep voting for the same center right libs for eternity? The party leaders of the Democrats will never allow things like ranked choice voting because it takes power away from them. I do agree with you that at the local and state levels Democrats are far more likely than Republicans to support RCV, however with the federal Democrats in power nothing will change.
  
  You don't compromise with terrorists.

This hits 100% true.

Not humorous and also not good faith discourse. This is just moralizing even though I agree with the sentiment

Voting for Joe Brandon is a no brainer.
- Joe Brandon is a no brainer

Incorrect, Vote 3rd party and make a difference.
- A third party in a first past the post system is a waste. You may as well not vote
  
  Believing the MSM is see.
- Trump would love for you to vote 3rd party or not vote.
  The Electoral College is set up to benefit conservatives and no change.

Situation sucks. But, with Cheeto chimp it'll suck 1000X more.
Don't be complacent. Don't be apathetic.
- This is what your attitude will bring into fruition: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_2025
  I wonder if you're a member of one of the minorities who will end up second-class citizens, if citizens at all, if they achieve their goals.
  
  Fuck off with your astroturfing unproductive non-takes. Biden is perfectly viable. Beholden to the mic? You think that's the biggest issue this election cycle?
- How exactly os trump worse than the guy aiding in a genocide?

and how would our right to vote be taken away? fearmongerers
- It won't. If you're white, heterosexual, Christian and cismale. But considering SCOTUS is about to get rid of the voting rights act, I'm not sure about anyone else.
  https://truthout.org/articles/the-supreme-court-may-be-poised-to-kill-the-voting-rights-act-once-and-for-all/
  But sure, that's just fearmongering. As long as you're white, heterosexual, Christian and cismale.
  
  thats not what it says at all (the white heterosexual christian male part), but i do agree that they shouldnt get rid of it. i would be very surprised if my rights were taken away.
  on an unrelated note, part of why i liked jerboa more than reddit was that it wasnt a liberal echo chamber too. but after coming back after a few month hiatus, i see its become the same way.
- You act like that has never happened before in history

I'm writing in Hamas in 2024
- Lemmy moment

That's where youre wrong. There are more than 2 parties. The 2 party system is atrocious.
- There are only two parties that have a mathematical chance of winning. You can throw your vote away on a third party, hoping to get them 20x their highest ever turn-out in the hopes that they get more money if you want. But know that what you are actually doing is indistinguishable from simply not voting. Work on getting ranked-choice voting in your state first, then vote your conscience. Voting third party now just guarantees another 4+ years of Trump.
  
  Get fucked and run a better candidate, Dems. When they don't they will be the only group responsible for the election of trump.
  
  Gaslighting people into thinking there are only 2 viable options is the reason why we're in this mess. Just saying.

unless Biden helped to take your ability to vote away
just leaves older people voting and people who will eat anything they are served
no wonder we only have two parties the ones who are willing to vote third are not able to vote

Uh or we can vote for the independent left and not some capitalist who belongs in a retirement home
- you can, but that’s a wasted vote… you have a 2 party system, vote republic or vote democrat are mathematically your only viable options
  if you want different options, you first have to work to change the system
- Or we can do a vote swap. I live in California, I'll vote 3rd party in exchange for someone voting Democrat in a swing state. Any takers?
- That would be nice, but unless you're in a state that's comfortably blue (or red) and is winner-takes-all, that's a bad idea. That's how you get trump back in office.
  By voting for someone other than blue, you're reducing the number of votes blue gets. While your intention may be good (trying to get an actual left-winger into office), the result is that it's one less vote for blue, which is one less vote team red has to overcome. Too many of those and you get team red, aka trump, back in office. Despite your good intentions, you will have contributed to the problem.
  If we weren't staring down the barrel of a loaded gun, I'd say "go vote 3rd party if you want, knock yourself out." However, we're looking at the end of democracy in the US. This may legitimately be the last election you can vote for any party other than team red.

Both are too old to run. Honestly, I don't think Joe would make it another 4 years.
- Why Joe and not trump? He's older, sure, but going by general healthy he looks better. And this is even with all the work trump puts into his looks. Ffs the guy fusses over his hair so much and paints himself orange. And he still looks like shit
  
  I guess because Biden is President I see him more often on tv and it's clear he is failing. Don't get me wrong, statistically neither will live through the next term. We need some young blood to choose from. That's all I was trying to say.

They said this shit in 2016. Last time I checked Trump isn't president anymore.
This dumb scare rethoric isn't gonna make anyone vote for Genocide Joe anymore. The terror Dems must learn.
- You realise Trump actually tried to stay in power after losing the vote? Even with violence.
  scare rethoric [...] terror Dems
  I'll give you some time to notice it yourself
  
  If he did then the American justice system will surely punish him for it and you won't have to worry about Trump anymore!
  People were screaming about the coup shit in 2016 and it didn't happen. The same joke won't work again.
- Terror dems? ROFL!
  
  ROFL GENOCIDE LOLLERSKATES LMAO

Oh fucking can it
- This is the most important election of our lifetime!

Just because it's true doesn't mean it isn't bullshit. We're fucked.

I predict this goes one of three or four ways:
Trump wins the Republican nomination.

Biden steps down and that Newsome guy runs as a Democrat.
Biden runs for re-election against Trump and there will be a third candidate to split the vote someway.
Newsome actually wins the Republican nomination and changes the Republican party, like a lot.
DeSantis pulls a miracle and wins the Republican nomination and the election becomes a four way with Biden, Trump, DeSantis, and someone else (probably Newsome).
- The RNC and DNC will only back Trump and Biden respectively. One of those two barring unfortunate circumstances will be elected because our voting systems punishes split votes and the public knows this.

If Trump wanted to get rid of voting, why didn't he do so last time? How about we just get better security at the capitol, and eliminate whatever loophole he was trying to use in the insurrection?
- eliminate whatever loophole he was trying to use in the insurrection?
  You mean starting a riot? That's already illegal.
- If you weren't paying attention, incompetence.
  
  Okay, so why does anyone think he will be competent now?
- That's whats the coup attempt was for, as well as the attempts to override or stop polls from counting the votes across the country. Just because he failed this time doesn't mean it won't happen again. Hitler was democratically elected after becoming famous for the book he wrote in jail after being arrested during the Nazi's first failed coup attempt, Mein Kampf. He then consolidated political power into a new position with the support of party members who were elected to key positions, and he then appointed himself to that new position. Same as what has happened in many other countries. A few crazies in the right seats. The Nazi party only made up 13% of the German population at its height. That's all it takes.

Why do I have vote for the next gen Dem in 2028? Is this post implying Trump will continue running until his death? That the GOP will be unable to shelve his candidacy after another loss--and I have to imagine increasing incoherency?
- The person you are replying to is saying that just because you vote for Biden in 24, doesn't mean you have to vote for a Democrat in 28.
  
  I looked over the wiki page and still don't understand why I have to vote next gen Dem in 2028. I understand Trump's authoritarian proclivities. Why must I assume the GOP is gonna offer up Trump again? Maybe they will nominate a non-batshit candidate?
- The picture assumes that you're a left-leaning voter who begrudgingly votes for whatever moderate conservative the Democrats roll out as their candidate because while he doesn't generally support any of the things you support, at least he doesn't oppose them like the Republican candidate.
  To throw my own opinion into this, I think the Republican party has passed a tipping point. I think your second question is right on the money. If not Trump, then some other crazed bigot. I think moving forward, you'll have conservatives and Republicans, and they won't be the same thing.
  They've been moving progressively further towards the extremist end of the spectrum since I started paying attention in middle school (right after 9/11), and according to older folk I've talked to over the years, it's been going on far longer than that, even before Nixon and Reagan. Democrats today hold the same positions on things that Republicans held during the 90s, and are called socialists and communists for it. Democrats have also been quietly funding extremist candidates for years now so that they can get an easy win against them by simply being the lesser evil. On top of that, Republicans have created a core group of zealots who care little for the policies that their candidate supports, so long as they have that R next to their name on the ballot. The kind of people like my boss when I was a teenager who would answer the question of who he was voting for with "I'm a Republican, I vote for the nominee" and an incredulous look like it was stupidest question in the world, exactly like my grandfather would answer my dad when he was younger, in the 60s and 70s. I've seen this backfire on Republicans when left-leaning candidates have gotten onto ballots under the Republican party, like a trans woman in New Hampshire or Vermont who ran for county sheriff on a policy of defunding the police, and was overwhelmingly elected by the pro-police conservative populace because she had run as the Republican candidate and none of them bothered to actually look at what her stance was, only if the D or the R was next to her name. I think this core group has backfired on the Republicans nationally, because they've been co-opted by Trump, who has opened the door for all the bigots to openly spread their hate and give these people a target to blame for the miseries inflicted upon them by the policies of the same people that they voted for. They tell them that it's the minorities fault, and these people gobble it up.
  The mask is off and open bigotry is the new face of the Republican party. There's always been undercurrents of it, but it's mostly been kept in line to some extent by the more moderate side of the party. Now that side of the party is labelled as being just as "woke" and full of socialists/communists as the Democrats supposedly are, and it's the bigots like Trump and DeSantis running the show. So while the Republicans could field an actually sane candidate at any time, I don't think it's likely as the sane are being purged from the ranks at an alarming pace.
- Yeah the maker of the slogan probably didn't realize it implies choosing between a one party system and a no party system. Messaging isn't their strong suit.

If your point is I'm going to be a dick, then just say I'm going to be a dick, and be that dick. Dick.

Hmmm... I think I'll go for the second this time around.
I'd also vote for DeSantis or Ramaswami this election. I refuse to vote for Biden (or whoever is calling the shots behind him), or Harris, or Newsom.
Seriously, how is it possible that my own party can't get their shit together and find an actually likable candidate that can at least convince me they might be doing it for my own interests?
- So now you vote for the other party that's even worse at what you criticise? Did I get this right?
  
  Yes, now I vote for the other party. I'm burnt out on mine.

- It's dumb as fuck to think it's not true.

If Trump was able to pull off something like this, wouldn't he have done it during his first term?
- He tried!!!! And like hitler, he failed the first time. He won’t fail again. Unless we stop him.
- The first time they didn't even think they were going to win. This time they have an org giving them a plan to dismantle the administrative state starting day 1: https://www.project2025.org/

boooo. boooooooo. booooooooooo
- Rubbish! Filth! Slime! Muck!

- So you're saying you won't vote for Biden if he becomes the nominee in 2024 because you don't want Trump to win?

Never voting again sounds good to me, since that way people would realize how pointless it is. Unfortunately neither option will lead to that outcome and people will pat themselves on the back after voting for the Capitalist party.
- Ah yes, not participating. The way to change the system is to not participate. All we have to do is let the republicans win, so they can make being gay illegal, abolish no-fault divorce, and re-introduce christian indoctrination in the classroom. Then everyone will finally realize it's all stupid and they'll release all the gay criminals and atheist teachers from jail and say "Sorry! Thanks for not voting, now we realize both parties were the problem!"
- You would probably still vote but there would only be one party to vote for. Voting might become mandatory too
  
  The Capitalist party is who you will be voting for, so materially what is the difference?
- Are you saying there are no differences at all between which party is in power? That people's loves aren't objectively better under one party than another?
- Yeah! That's what we really need! A monarchy!
  
  If it ends in guillotining the currently political dynasty's that would be a far better outcome then what we currently have.