Mike Godwin: Yes, it’s okay to compare Trump to Hitler. Don’t let me stop you.
Mike Godwin: Yes, it’s okay to compare Trump to Hitler. Don’t let me stop you.
My very minor status as an authority on Hitler comparisons stems from having coined “Godwin’s Law” more than three decades ago.
My very minor status as an authority on Adolf Hitler comparisons stems from having coined “Godwin’s Law” about three decades ago. I originally framed this “law” as a pseudoscientific postulate: “As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one.” (That is, its likelihood approaches 100 percent.)
... We had the luxury of deriving humor from Hitler and Nazi comparisons when doing so was almost always hyperbole. It’s not a luxury we can afford anymore.
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What’s arguably worse than Trump’s frank authoritarianism is his embrace of dehumanizing tropes that seem to echo Hitler’s rhetoric deliberately. For many weeks now, Trump has been road-testing his use of the word “vermin” to describe those who oppose him and to characterize undocumented immigrants as “poisoning the blood of our country.” Even for an amateur historian like me, the parallels to Hitler’s rhetoric seem inescapable.
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I always took Godwin's use of Hitler/Nazis as one of many final limits of arguments that the "losing" side would reach for in order to save their claim when they could not find rational reasons to support it anymore. Nazis, aliens, Deep State, etc. It's a mental flailing of absurdities to save face, and once there the point of debate is lost.
The difference between Nazis and the others you mentioned, is that Nazi happened and is having a big comeback, sadly.
I'm German and for the first time in my life i heard someone say Heil Hitler in the subway. After what he said, pure silence.
I was born long after ww2 and don't know how nazi Deutschland came to be. I know technically, but i didn't experience it.
But one thing i know for sure, i don't want to experience it.
Imo nazi is no final limit argument, it's no conspiracy theory or outer space evil.
You're right that the subjects don't have equal weights in reality. But at the time of Godwin's Law becoming a thing, the idea of fascism being an okay thing seemed about as ridiculous in the general public eye. We as a society do seem to forget the lessons from the past, or maybe some things hide and give the appearance of being gone.
In the U.S. I blame the underlying racism and "heritage" of the southern states (that spread to other states) which never really disappeared thanks to the fumbling of the Civil War resolution, but lay waiting for decades for new opportunities. It's no wonder that neo-Confederatism and neo-nazi seem to be found in similar places, ironically often wrapped in an American flag.
Complacence is part of the problem. There's a great 1943 video called "Don't Be a Sucker" that unfortunately is still timely in its message.
Yes - i think people forget and the younger ones mostly don't even relate, it's already on history books and too abstract.
Thanks for sharing this. I'd love to visit Germany and learn more about what it's been like, both for your generation and the previous few. I'm not so interested in the rise of military power or atrocities so much as how people survived and adapted and rebuilt, and now reflect and learn and understand the past to avoid repeating it.
My grandparents fled Munich to Yugoslavia and then the US, and I don't think any close relatives have ever gone back.
My Grandparents also left Germany, but between ww1 and ww2, sometime in the 30s. They left because of the inflation, no perspective. They ended up in Brazil, had a small Farm, only my father was curious about Germany, moved here, met my mom ... We all moved to Brazil when i was 5, i got curious about Germany and moved here after finishing high school. Just like my father.
About the way people survived. Germans lost the war. Not only lost the war, but lots of cities were carpet bombed until there weren't any bombs left. Then came the Russians and you know what Russian soldiers are known for.
The US staying stationed in Germany, until long after the war, was a win win for both. A rare outcome imo.
I think the war shell shocked the civilian population in such a way, that the ones that survived knew, that war is to be avoided at all cost. No one wanted to live that again. Politicians were at one level with the population and everyone wanted just to rebuild, live in peace and progress.
Things changed a lot on the last decades. The ones that know what war means, are either dead or too old in order to be an active voice. People are forgetting and not reflecting anymore.
That makes sense and matches what I've read and heard in articles and videos. That last part is problematic though.
Forgetting means peril for us all. As you say, fewer now have really learned in the first place. I'm afraid the same malice is on the rise again. Yes I've heard of the AFD, but there's a more powerful and ambitious faction of fascists in the US who are arguably far more dangerous. They want to marginalize and divide people, even if it drives the country into civil war. And if they win, they won't stop at the borders, not when the prize is enough military might to fulfill their sick dreams of terrorizing and subjugating the entire globe.
So yeah, that's the other reason I'd like to come to Germany, to help everyone not forget, and to understand how to better share the lessons.
What also makes it so extremely dangerous now in the US, is so many people owning guns.
That's what it was back then. Now, we have a presidential candidate that directly quotes fucking Hitler and doesn't get shitcanned for it.
I think that's how Godwin's Law was intended, yeah. Like a signpost that the argument had truly become hyperbolic and untethered from reality. Because it used to be that outwardly supporting nonsense and evil were socially unacceptable, even on the Internet. Times sure have changed.
insults in general, to be honest. Once a discussion devolves to insults, it's done.