General Discussion Thread - Juche 113, Week 5
General Discussion Thread - Juche 113, Week 5
Welcome again to everybody! Make yourself at home. In the time-honoured tradition of our sect, here is our weekly discussion thread.
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We are living in very interesting times. A lot of people will agree with your opinions if you never use the words “proletariat”, “class struggle”, “communist” and other Marxist terminology. And they say people living in Socialist countries are brainwashed…
Anyways, it’s going to be barbarism, isn’t it? I can’t help but feel hopeless sometimes. I know AES countries have been making a lot of progress lately, but the Empire is slowly decaying into Fascism (wow who would’ve thought) while the bourgeois puppet regimes blame communism (don’t laugh!) for the inherent problems of capitalism.
The empire is and always has been fascism. It's not decaying into fascism. What's decaying is its ability to manage its internal contradictions. This is, ultimately, a necessary process. Do not feel hopeless while you watch the empire crumble. It will have to go through a battle with its own demons no matter what.
So, in Greece there is a discussion on a law proposed by the centre-right government which will allow homosexual pairs to be officially married and adopt children and the Communist Party has declared that it will vote against it.
Today they published a lengthy text explaining their controversial decision with arguments like claiming the law will abolish the proletariat's rights to "maternity" and "paternity" in favour of having "parent 1" and "parent 2" and possibly more, according to what is apparently dictated by European law (which it claims will be detrimental to the interests of the child). It makes the (probably not totally wrong) argument that there are too few children for adoption in Greece and too many people already waiting to adopt a child, and that might lead pairs to seek children through surrogacy, thus reinforcing the commercialization of birth and exploitation of women. And then it goes on to say that it is wrong to totally disregard biological sexes and their needs, rejects the theory that gender is a social construct and makes the claim that the liberalisation of gender policy leads to estrangement of the proletariat from class struggle (!). And after all this, they still claim to be protecting the interests of people of all sexual orientations.
I am pretty new to marxism and this position confuses the heck out of me. Is the Party position as controversial as I think it to be, or is there something that I am failing to grasp in its analysis?
What's really absurd about their position is they're taking an anti-materialist stance on the family and its origins. There's nothing natural about the nuclear family, it is a modern construct that emerged alongside the state and capitalism.
My guess is that the way that liberalism and capitalist modernity now pretends to embrace gender and sexuality minorities has caused them to take a reflexive stance against it, as if communism is just reactionary anti-liberalism. Do they even read theory?
That isn't controversial for a modern Marxist party, unfortunately. Most of them seem to be neck-deep in homophobia and/or TERF shit.
CW: homophobia
The Greek party position could be sound but only if you're missing something important in the wording of the proposed law. Maybe there's a clause that abolishes parental leave/pay while granting equal marriage rights. I can see why they'd challenge that if it would (a) remove support for all parents on the very day of the victory (i.e. for equal marriage/parental rights) and (b) lead reactionaries to blame homosexual couples for their loss of support. Idk, though. If that's the case, it'd be better to campaign for amendments than to vote against it completely.
Either way, it's problematic to challenge homosexual couples adopting due to surrogacy because unless they plan to abolish surrogacy, it essentially means a ban on homosexuals having children unless they have a child by a different heterosexual relationship (I imagine single people can't easily adopt). Maybe they plan to get into power, abolish surrogacy, and then grant full family rights to homosexual couples. If that's the case, it's a terrible plan; how long are homosexuales supposed to wait?
If you've got a link to an English (or Spanish) translation, I'll have a look. Is it this? https://inter.kke.gr/en/articles/The-commercialization-of-surrogacy-is-a-billion-dollar-business-obscurantism-modern-day-barbarity-and-brutal-exploitation/ If it is: shit show of a communist party. Accusing the bill-proposers of obscuring the true benefactors and of appealing to the right wing while complaining about the loss of the mother-father binary. A reactionary US local government is trying to ban the use of 'pregnant people' and other 'woke language' and here we have a Greek 'communist' arguing that he wants to stop the same thing from even entering Greek discourse.
Who gives af if the state calls parents 'parent 1' and 'parent 2', anyway, even if that does happen elsewhere (I'm not convinced it does). Or 'parent 3' for that matter. Kids will still be raised to call their moms 'mom' and their dads 'dad' if the family wants that. I can't see any family of any sexual orientation numbering the parents except as a joke. Utterly bizarre argument. The kind of thing you hear from the conservatives.
And opposing progress because the right wing might take advantage of it? We won't get very far if we take that approach.
Sounds like the KKE has found what they think is a clever way of pandering to conservatives under the guise of 'thinking about the working class'. I can't wait for the day that 'communists' realise that conservatives aren't put off by this or that progressive position but because they're bloody communists. We might actually build some solidarity and get the revolution going when that happens.
Welcome to being a communist in the west. You're not wrong. You're just realising how many Western marxists are wrong.
A lot of the points that you raise were actually brought up in discussion about the time that the stance of KKE on this topic was announced. The article you linked is, I think, the first time the decision was made public by the party gensec himself, but the text I was referring to was actually only published yesterday, so far only in Greek AFAICT. Still, if you want to have a go with a translator, this is it: [https://m.902.gr/eidisi/politiki/354061/oi-theseis-toy-kke-gia-ton-politiko-gamo-ton-omofylon-zeygarion-kai-tis].
The reality is, KKE is the strongest communist party in the country and I support its stance on most other topics, but on a few approaches its approach is at best questionable or at worst inadequate and conservative. It certainly feels like they care too much about their percentages in the elections (which, truth be told, are better than they have ever been), so far as to support homophobic views in an attempt to win conservative and right-wing sympathizers (very pathetic). Still, I find it hard to believe that they can implement their program by just winning the elections. The bourgeoisie won't give up easily on their benefits, and NATO and EU will almost certainly react.
Still I think that if any party deserves support in the elections, it is KKE, and I have hopes that things will change for the better over time, especially considering its increasing popularity among the youth.
European “communists” never fail to disappoint.
argument that there are too few children for adoption
That’s an insane problem to have. Mfs like “I want my own physical being to take care of and put tons of effort into in addition to my work.” This problem calls for less traditional family norms, not more. Have these revisionists not even read the manifesto?
Abolition [Aufhebung] of the family!
Even the most radical flare up at this infamous proposal of the Communists. On what foundation is the present family, the bourgeois family, based? On capital, on private gain. In its completely developed form, this family exists only among the bourgeoisie. But this state of things finds its complement in the practical absence of the family among the proletarians, and in public prostitution.
The bourgeois family will vanish as a matter of course when its complement vanishes, and both will vanish with the vanishing of capital. Do you charge us with wanting to stop the exploitation of children by their parents? To this crime we plead guilty. But, you say, we destroy the most hallowed of relations, when we replace home education by social.
-Karl Marx
Earlier he notes:
The bourgeoisie has torn away from the family its sentimental veil, and has reduced the family relation to a mere money relation.
Your Greek opportunists do not understand that we are trying to move past capitalism, not to revert to earlier relations.
One more thing. I’m sure one of the worries is the “demographic crisis.” The solution they should be putting forward is making the bourgeoisie lower the cost of living. Criminalizing gay people isn’t going to make them be straight and have kids.
I sometimes struggle with the urge of western marxists who want to make everything fun and enjoyable when it comes to organizing. Like, not everything has to be quirky, or funny, or with witty chants or at a bar with beers or whatever.
People can be to serious too, but I’m sure the opposite can be a problem.
This is a bit of a rant sparked by someone showing me a gore video, unprompted. I have some mental issues and I always feel totally foreign to the rest of humanity. I feel like a weirdo, an outcast. I have weird hobbies and don't talk to people much, I'm always very nervous and jittery around others. This makes me come off as very strange and on bad days I can really get lost in my own head and start mentally beating myself up for not fitting in. But then something like this happens and I realize that while I may have an unusual personality, I'm not weird in the negative sense. Not like these fucking sick people who seek out, enjoy, laugh at, share, etc. videos and pictures of people and animals suffering. Why do they do this? Why did this person think it was okay to show that to me? Why did he have a big fucking grin on his face? Why did he cackle like a hyena when the thing happened in the video? Why did snicker and smirk when I showed distress and disgust? Why did he smugly say "are you triggered?" Yes I am in fact triggered. I literally have PTSD, though he doesn't know that. Yes I am a weirdo, because I keep a messy home, do hobbies most people have never even heard of, smoke a lot of weed and have an odd way of speaking, I don't go out much and don't know how to navigate social situations. I keep to myself and while others may find me disconcerting because I'm not like them, I'm harmless and just trying to get through life. This person who decided to show that video to me is a fucking weirdo of the highest degree, but his shit is somehow more normalized, especially on the internet. Is this behavior the product of a violent and inhumane culture? Is it human nature and I truly am the odd one out? Why is this a thing, why do some people enjoy seeing the suffering of others?
Speaking from only people I know, but, uh, that is definitely very weird and I'm pretty sure most people think torturing people/animals is a really weird thing. You're the normal one here. As for the content... it's probably just some really, really niche stuff.
So our party just expressed support for Belgian farmers' protests. They are protesting for the same reasons the Dutch farmers have been protesting in recent years: nitrogen emissions which have to be pushed back by EU law.
In The Netherlands the protests have been taken over by far right movements and big agro corps and I have to admit the left shit the bed when it comes to offering solutions. But, the things the farmers do are actually bad for the environment. Most of the emissions are caused by mega factory livestock companies which mostly export their products anyway. And they make up a tiny percentage of total trade in The Netherlands and probably over here as well.
I just hope we don't support thing for the sake of remaining popular.
So the farmers protests are still going on over here and I had my doubts about our party supporting them. But they have surprised me I must admit. We are managing to highlight the messed up ways of the big Agricultural Industry in which everything becomes more expensive and the bigger profits stay at the big corps instead of with the farmers.
Neither Berlin, nor Korea nor the atom bomb is attracting here as much attention as the tremendous fact that Russia is planting trees!
Stop for a moment, please, and think about that!I am angry to myself that I missed 100 anniversary of Lenin's death.
Happy Black History Month! Make sure to remind your lib friends that their heroes were commies.
Hello
Hii
Hiiii 👋😊
🧄🧄🧄🧄
I hope you all have a nice week :D
“Of the illegal settler colonial entity… and also the United States as a result…” -Hakim smh
Also JT
why can’t I know the best guerrilla warfare weapons?I have three midterms this week 🥲
midterm solidarity
Sending you all my good vibes, comrade! May we both pass.
Good fortune for you both 🌟
good luck
Thanks comrade. Can’t wait for this week to be over 😭
I had six last week, but they were extremely easy. Good luck.
You’re a legend! Thank you, my first is in two hours 😭 I gotta calm down because if I don’t do well I have other exams to make up for it.
Apparently Russian State Humanities University (РГГУ) is opening a new branch. It is called "High Political School", named after famous fascist sympathiser Ilyin and will be headed by Dugin (you know Dugin). The announced goal is to "Channel the attendees into traditional values" with "orthodox gymnasiums as an example". Folks here been saying Russia "isn't heading to fascism". Guess this isn't it, hm.
In other news, two AFU drones have reportedly been intercepted in my region, close to the city. We're hundreds of kilometres away from Ukrainian border.
If mild celebrating of fascist sympathizers (still too much, I agree) and some institutions promoting "traditional values" were enough to define fascism, most countries in existence could be labeled fascist, one way or another.
Obviously none of this is good, but no, I don't think Russia is heading to fascism. Too comfortable with some forms of it? Definitely, 100%. But it is incomparable to what is going on on a daily basis not only in Israel, Ukraine and the Baltics (ie. the most extreme forms of it), but in the USA, Brussels and across the EU, in the UK, Canada, Australia, etc...
Things can have more nuance than "everything is fascism/heading to fascism" and this is one of those things. Russia remains a civilization-state with many constituent peoples and proper autonomous regions rather than a supremacist ethno-state nor a unrepentant, genocidal squatter-state like Israel, the US, and Canada; it remains anti-imperialist and a major part of the forces against white, western supremacy, exploitation, and genocide worldwide (even if a large part of it is due to circumstance); obviously, it should receive critical rather than unconditional support, but same goes with Iran, Afghanistan, with the Saudis' move away from the west, with Mexico, Brazil, the list goes on... hell, same goes (if to a far lesser extent as there simply is far less to criticize, and proletarian rule is something that must inherently be defended in and of itself) for AES states.
So I got called a “red fash” is there anyone here who can push me more left?
That's awesome!
Well, this community in general will help push you leftward on this issue and that issue.
What in particular are you leftwardly curious about? What is it about Marxist Leninists that you are willing to humor?
We can all talk about why we support Russia in Ukraine, why China is awesome and there isn't a genocide on Uighurs, or why the Holodomor wasn't a genocide, we can talk about less fiery controversial things like the history of other socialist, anti imperialist, or Global Southern nations, we can convince you anarchism or electoralism are deadend controlled opposition, we can talk about zany things like the insane shit the CIA has done, we can talk about the word "authoritarianism" and address claims socialist countries are "authoritarian," and so on and so forth.
There are many very knowledgeable comrades here who could give you more information than you would know what to do with 😅
Hey! id like to talk on why exactly you support Russia in the Ukrainian war. I am well aware of Ukraine reactionary fascist leaning present (as i am a Ukrainian myself) but i am not sure how is "less evilism " of getting Russia(a capitalist state that literally forged thousands of documents to undermine USSR reputation) to control Luhansk Donetsk an Zaporizhia is worth starting a war and shit. I believe this is solely imperialist war to gain power and markets, literally ww1. My position is neutral in this specific conflict, as both of the country leaders could stop the bloodbath for profits any day they wanted, but they value their money more. Also not to mention that Ukraine has been turned into an Open-air concentration camp (for some mysterious reason Western media is not giving this topic any sight lol) Male Ukrainians over age of 18 are literally banned from leaving country (this is illegal btw, Constitution states that you are free to leave any time), 20 year olds are fucking hunted by the military and tortured to sign up for volunteering fighting, and lots of other shit that is not really relevant but i can gladly share if you ask, but yeah, i think Russia is reactionary oligarchy-controlled pos. I am free to change my mind if you think you can, i pursue the truth
As in call you a tankie, or as in "go read a book lib"?
I tried making a Stalin bot on Character.ai, https://c.ai/c/nGAHElraINbFMK3WVSt2Z4jyaPnmvIfqeq-y2KhjrEM
Can you try and give me some feedback, or even provide some good conversations
this is really funny. 🤣
All in all, this bot is very neat! And the responses it generates seem quite to the point so far. Also, Comrade Stalin seems ridiculously well informed on 21st century stuff.
hey this is cool
Pewdiepie just started drawing. Guess I have to support AI art now.
This summer is going so fast 🙁
I am still reading Leviathan Wakes by James S.A Corey, and I'm loving this book. 9/10 so far
Sa-sa bossmang!
Require a fun, engaging, funny left podcasts/episodes that can I listen to with my gf.
TrueAnon is nice, require some episode recommendation for a beginner
proles of the roundtable is very informative and funny
It's been rough following the news these last few months. But here's a couple good things I just saw:
- There is now a ceasefire proposal that Hamas is reviewing
- BRICS GDP is now bigger than the G7 in PPP terms
Weekly puppy: https://streamable.com/69g0na
She did the FNAF jumpscare lol
just saw a video some senator frying zuck in public about their disaster platform, 2 days later the stock price increased and this guy made 60-80 billion.
wtf is this system? everyone happy that meta stock price increased btw.
Got to keep the scam going if you want your own money back. That was the lesson from Enron.
on kashmir must watch
I found a YouTube link in your comment. Here are links to the same video on alternative frontends that protect your privacy:
