I am unable to visit Japan.
I am unable to visit Japan.
I head up a small community for fans of a niche indie brand. The founder is doing an event in Japan with an exclusive item for people who attend! I was so excited and was looking into booking a plane ticket to go!
However.. turns out that Japan has a law that absolutely forbids stimulant medication in the country. And, no, I don't really want to upend my regimen of 8 years and risk going on a new medication for the trip.
I'm really shattered, as I wanted to attend this cool event and meet up with other enthusiasts. It really hurts to be barred from an opportunity like this.
I hate ADHD. I really do.
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Japan seems like such a cool place but it seems to have so many problems. Sexism and racism, everyone’s a workaholic, and war crime denial. My work has offices over there and I’ve been told that if you can get a transfer there you need to understand that you’ll only ever hang out with other westerners because the culture is impenetrable. Just hearsay of course, not personal experience.
I’ve been told that if you can get a transfer there you need to understand that you’ll only ever hang out with other westerners because the culture is impenetrable.
I've lived in Japan and that's completely untrue. Sure lots of westerners have this experience, but it's usually for one of three reasons:
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Language barrier: if you don't speak Japanese, obviously you're not going to fully integrate. However English is a required subject in schools, and while many Japanese are hesitant to speak it (mostly out of embarrassment over mistakes) there are plenty who are eager to utilize what they've learned. And this doesn't even include Japanese who've lived abroad and are properly fluent and comfortable in the language (there aren't many, but they certainly exist). Learning even a little Japanese and appearing to make an effort will also open a lot of doors.
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Self-segregation: It's easy to fall into this one, especially because of point 1. But if you make an effort to make friends with people who are Japanese, they'll introduce you to their friend group. This works best if your co-workers are mixed westerners and English-speaking Japanese, but with some searching you should be able to find mixed socialization opportunities outside of work too. Plus there are non-Western communities in Japan too: folks from other Asian or Latin American countries who also feel like outsiders. Of the foreigner friends I had in Japan, almost none were American (and almost none were native English speakers, although they were all fluent or close to it). Taking Japanese language classes is a great way to meet these folks, but each school is going to be very different in their demographic populations so be choosey and avoid any that seem too homogenous (eg all Chinese students).
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Expectations: Japanese social culture is very different. It's easy to make acquaintances and hard to make friends. And yes, even if you speak Japanese fluently as a foreigner you will find it more difficult to make friends with the average Japanese person. However you have two strengths you need to utilize: curiosity and otherness. As long as you appear approachable, strangers will sporadically come up to you and talk with you out of curiosity. Sometimes the socialization ends there, and that's fine. But look for the outsiders: Japanese people who don't feel like they fit into Japanese society. I found that there were a good number of English-speaking Japanese who wanted to be my friend because they struggled to make friends with other Japanese. Some of them were socially awkward or autistic, some had lived abroad, and some seemed totally normal. The good news is you probably have a lot in common, even if it's superficial like enjoying the same Western culture (TV shows, etc; think reverse-weeabo), but it's enough for the foundation of a friendship. However you'll need to accept that you're now a member of a misfits social group, because you're yourself a stranger in a strange land!
So in conclusion, it's very easy to fall into the only-socializing-with-Westerners trap, but it's certainly not inevitable. It takes conscious effort to avoid, but is completely feasible, especially for someone who has interest in Japan/Japanese culture/Japanese language.
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Don't forget that their porn is blurry. Such a travesty.
Wait what the fuck? I thought that's just what japanese genitals (and sometimes faces) looked like?
Sorry, but this is nothing but empty stereotypes and borderline racism. Yes, corporate Japan has work culture issues, but at the end of the day Japan is built on the backs of small businesses, which, despite struggling with the times, typically offer a lot more job stability than a lot of western corporate jobs. To say everyone is sexist and racist is a wholly inappropriate overgeneralization, and the war crime thing is hardly a thing in the public consciousness at all. Yes, the ultranationalists sometimes get a lot of press, but they're basically schoolchildren compared to the western alt-right these days. There's plenty of activisim and progressivism going on, and while the wheels of change turn slowly here people are trying. Social support programs are lightyears ahead, there's no toxic culture war, and people are generally much more respectful towards each other. In my experience foreigners tend to form bubbles not because the culture is impenetrable (it's not) but because they aren't willing or able to put in the effort to overcome the linguistic and cultural barriers.
Also, OP, don't make up pissbaby excuses for yourself. I was diagnosed with severe ADHD back in first or second grade and have been living in Japan for nearly 10 years. I'm not saying it will necessarily be easy for you. However, you're not going to die without meds, and there are plenty of nonpharmaceutical strategies to help wrangle the ups and downs. Personally, I found there to be significant mental health and self esteem/identity benefits to reducing dependence on medication. At the end of the day, remember that some Japanese people struggle with ADHD too!
That's very true, there are numerous studies/documentaries about how Japan is an Autistic culture. Meaning, they're very adverse to anything new or foreign, and everything is very codified in how it works. Nice but very particular culture.
Xenophobic was the word you were looking for.
Folks nosin is just exercising their mental gymnastics floor routine here.
That's an awful reduction of something much more complex there.
It's not that complex..... It's just the natural result of fascism taking over an entire culture. During the Meijji restoration the Japanese basically erased a lot of their own cultural identity and history, and supplemented it with imperialist fascism.
After WW2 there was no great purging of Japanese leadership like in Germany. Up until the 1980's Japan had the war criminals from ww2 serving in the highest offices in government. Even today most of the powerful politicians in Japan are the unapologetic children of war criminals, who do their best to erase their country's history of violence.
So you had to explain a whole geopolitical context but it's not complex ? That's also omitting that most of them are like that because "That's how it is here", they're not really racist for any other reasons than the culture being very closed to the outside world in general, it's not really Xenophobia for the sake of it.
I'm done trying to have this debate here personally, seems like you and me could have an interesting conversation but the downvotes and answers I get here clearly show people won't even try to understand the complexity of it, it's easier to deem all the Japanese racists apparently.
So you had to explain a whole geopolitical context but it's not complex ?
I mean, you made a geopolitical statement. Obviously it's going to require context. Is that context complex? I don't really think so, considering I only used a few paragraphs of info.
they're not really racist for any other reasons than the culture being very closed to the outside world in general, it's not really Xenophobia for the sake of it.
The theory that Japan was completely isolated for 250 years is a common misunderstanding of the isolationist tendency of Edo period. There were still massive amounts of trade happening between Japan and nations like Korea and China, and even a fair amount of trade from the Dutch. And both Korea and China had foreign nationals living in Japan.
The idea of ethnic supremacy was an import from Europe during the Maiji restoration, claiming that it stems from their isolationist past is a clear historical revisionism, and it detracts from the many crimes against humanity they conducted upon their neighbors.
it's easier to deem all the Japanese racists apparently.
Apparently it's easier to ignore recent history and just argue with grand sweeping statements.
You want to be right, and read what you want (or you wouldn't even have answered, among others things), so yes, you're right.
You want to be right, and read what you want
No, I'm Korean and still have family members who experienced first hand the horrors of ethnic conflict brought to them by the government of Japan. The types of crimes that the Japanese government still denies and still attempts to white wash out of history.
Maybe actually pick up a history book about the topic some time? Or, maybe try reading about the history of Japan somewhere other than a manga?
Maybe try reading ? I explicitly stated why you're talking in the air, you really want to be right, while thinking your past justifies any of that eh ? (Protip, that was just an argument of authority to use your nationality like that)
Learn not to care on the internet and when to stop, it'll do you a great deal of good.
And before you cue in your next answer, read the sentence above.
You want to be right, and read what you want (or you wouldn't even have answered, among others things), so yes, you're right.
Ahh yes, how could anyone not understand such clear and powerful writing...... it's like talking to a Toaist with a concussion.
I explicitly stated why you're talking in the air, you really want to be right, while thinking your past justifies any of that eh ?
I don't think you understand what explicitly means.....
Protip, that was just an argument of authority to use your nationality like that)
Lol, it was a rebuttal you idiot. I was confronting your claim that my information was discreditable because my knowledge of a subject is biased by my own research interest. Do you even know about Korean and Japanese history? Or have any idea why a Korean person may have a better understanding about Japanese ethnic conflict?
Learn not to care on the internet and when to stop, it'll do you a great deal of good.
Lol, do you think the equivalent of "I'm rubber your glue" is an actual defensible argument? Or is that just what you do when you get slapped around in an argument?
You just said “it’s complex” and didn’t elaborate, implying it’s too complex to explain in this setting. Someone replied and explained the context in a very concise manner. There’s more then one single force at play, sure, but arguing whether or not that constitutes “complex” is just arguing over the definition of a word.
Speaking of words and their definitions, no one but you is conflating “xenophobia” with “willful racism”. Those are two completely different things. Someone said xenophobia and you’re now going all in on some strawman that’s apparently accusing every japanese person of being a racist.
There is absolutely a conversation to be had here, approaching it as a debate is probably contributing to all the perceived conflict.
The guy I answered to talked about "imperial fascism", are you gonna argue that it doesn't entail racism ?
A debate isn't a conflict originally, that's a very US thing. A debate is supposed to be point of views exposed from both sides, so each can learn from the other.
The guy I answered to talked about "imperial fascism", are you gonna argue that it doesn't entail racism ?
Are you denying that the imperial Japanese government wasn't committing crimes against humanity based on the ideology of ethnic supremacy?
I wasn't conflating xenophobia with willing racism, I was explaining where the xenophobia hailed from, by confronting your claim that this xenophobia was a result of an often misunderstood span of isolationist tendencies.
A debate isn't a conflict originally, that's a very US thing. A debate is supposed to be point of views exposed from both sides, so each can learn from the other.
Maybe between two people educated on the topic..... There's no common ground when one person is just making shit up and not providing any supporting evidence.
Sometimes it's less about people being unable to handle the sophistication of your erudite expressions and more about you acting like an idiot.
You were done with this debate 24 hours ago and yet you're still here trying to "prove" your point (although I still haven't seen any proof).
Not proving anything, just correcting people on the bullshit they try to attribute to me, like you just did.
You can't correct people without attempting to prove they are wrong........
Correcting someone (aka rebutting a claim) automatically means you are engaged in Discourse (aka debate).
If you don't want to be involved in discourse, then don't make claims. If you want to make claims, don't be surprised when people disagree with them and offer rebuttals.
Or, and I know it sounds like a crazy concept, you could go and learn something about Japanese culture and/or autism that's not just stereotypes. That might actually do you some good.
Homeboy already knows everything, nice try.
Sure, will do.
Oh wait, already done.
Have you been dipping into your manga collection for sources?
You called their culture autistic.
That's exactly the word you're looking for
That's not what autistic means...
And yet, that's how it is described, hence my little explanation, that's just a nomenclature in the context, complain to the people studying this and naming it that way.
There are many better words you could use. Insular, isolationist, xenophobic. Not to mention that I've never once heard Japan's culture described as "autistic"
They’re making it up. Which is why they can assert “they” say it but then calls folks dumb for not being able to find it.
They also will provide no proof.
It’s a mental gymnastics floor routine.
Where. Where is it described that way?
Where dumb people don't go ;)
I just read this great writeup about how you specifically exclusively use hearsay to make your points! I’m not going to provide any evidence, but I will call you stupid for not blindly agreeing with me. 💖
Ok
Aww come on, tell me more about how Japan the country is autistic! I bet you’ve got all sorts of exciting takes. Maybe Poland is a kleptomaniac, just spitballing!
As an autist who studied Japanese and gave up when I realized I just couldn't connect with any of the Japanese people I met - even the ones where it was obvious we wanted to be friends - I can assure you the culture is even more impenetrable for autistics. And I don't have such issues with other autistic people usually, no matter the culture.
Don't mistake your stereotypes for reality and tell everyone people call you out because of political correctness. You're just plain old wrong in this.
Nice, now one is using his anecdotal experience to try and counter studies that says the trend is exactly the opposite.
Also, "I'm autistic" = appeal to authority, so you just said a bunch of worthless things.
Advice : Stop here, it will lead nowhere.
Link to those studies?
Edit: me being autistic make everything I say useless? Really?
I really admire your ability to mental gymnastics. No matter what anybody says, you always find a way to tell them their opinion doesn't matter. Must be nice to be so secure in your own superiority that nothing can convince you otherwise.
A simple Google search of the two keywords will tell you everything you need to know.
I explicitly explained why, if you're too dumb to Google or understand what's an appeal to authority, it's not on me, it's on you for trying to start dumb point based on your anecdotal experience.
Ps : unlike many here, I'm not about being right or any superiority, I very early said in another comment, I'd like to discuss about this but seeing the plethora of downvotes I got I didn't even wanna bother. Most people can't even conceive that a term can be applied to something when the definition fits (and it does), then there's you dumb enough to think I said Autistic people have an easier time there (I just said it's an autistic culture, that's absolutely not the same thing), or even funnier is the guy that went on an history diatribe on the origin of Japan, while explaining the origin doesn't change what I simply stated. And I explicitly told that person that I wouldn't engage, but they still get surprised and try to high road me when I don't properly engage. But I'm the one about superiority, go figure rofl.
If you want to convince people it's up to you to bring the evidence. I'm not doing your work for you.
Besides, there have been studies shoing that autistics among themselves don't have the same communication breakdown as they do when interacting with neurotypicals. So if Japan was truly an autistic culture it should be easier for autistic people, but it's not.
Besides, I'm very curious to see how you are going to apply diagnostic criteria for a neurodivergence to a culture. Like, how do you even begin? Is the culture averse to bright lights? Loud sounds? Does the culture go into hyperfocus moments? Does it suffer from PDA?
The only way you could do this is if you were to take stereotypes about how autistic people behave and try to somehow match them to cultural traits.
Yeah this dude probably has been in the parts of the internet where that language is typical and now thinks their usage of the word applies.
Which explains why they just deflect when asked for literally any source for what they’re saying.
Can you read ? I said I don't want to convince people. I know when I can have an conversation, and when it's not gonna be possible. So far every answers but one proved me right in that regard.
You're missing the entire point that their culture is autistic, not the people. And then you're trying to lend exclusively humans traits to a culture, in bad faith or stupidity, your choice.
I'm done here, this isn't gonna lead anywhere and I already wasted way too much time on people that would rather be right or offended, than trying to talk and understand the actual point of view conveyed.
Have fun thinking you won, or that I'm a bigot, your pick, just remember I couldn't care less.
So far every answers but one proved me right in that regard.
Yeah, you very clearly think you’re the most right in every interaction. You’re being downvoted because people think you’re not only wrong, but hateful and shitty about it at the same time.
Rather than address the fact that you MIGHT not be the ultimate paragon of authority on every topic you grace with your presence, you’re choosing to disengage completely.
You don’t care about wining so hard that you’re taking your ball and going home because people disagreed with you. All you care about is discussion, and that’s why you’re completely unwilling to hear any points other than your own.
You're missing the entire point that their culture is autistic, not the people. And then you're trying to lend exclusively humans traits to a culture
Is calling an entire culture autustic NOT ascribing exclusively human traits to a culture? Did I miss the part in geography where entire countries can be diagnosed with HUMAN MEDICAL CONDITIONS? Rules for thee, none for me!
in bad faith or stupidity, your choice.
In your case it’s both.
You're doing the exact same shit, have fun
Nah doing the same thing would be claiming that France's culture is afflicted with narcissistic personality disorder.
French culture is entirely based on an unreasonably high sense of it's own importance. It needs and seeks too much attention and wants other cultures to admire them. Cultures with this disorder may lack the ability to understand or care about the cultures of others. But behind this mask of extreme confidence, their culture is not sure of their self-worth and are easily upset by the slightest criticism.
You're French, right?
No it actually doesn’t.
Please provide some form of authoritative or even scholarly source for who the “they” it’s that called it that.
Answering to the wrong comment and moving the goal post
Is this a new Philo account? lol
I hope not, people interested in philosophy usually understand at least the basic essentials of rhetoric.
It honestly appears that this fellow seems to think that wisdom is derived from the use of confusing syntax. Half of his rebuttals to me were written like they came from a Toaist with a brain injury, or maybe yoda with Alzheimer's.
unlike many here, I'm not about being right or any superiority
But also?
but seeing the plethora of downvotes I got I didn't even wanna bother
Most people can't even conceive that a term can be applied to something when the definition fits (and it does),
So you don't care about being right or "superiority", yet down votes upset you. And you don't care about being right, or trying to convince people, yet you keep making unsubstantiated claims that attempt to address people's rebuttals.
then there's you dumb enough to think I said Autistic people have an easier time there (I just said it's an autistic culture, that's absolutely not the same thing)
That's not what that person was claiming. They were stating that if Japan was truly an "autistic culture", actual autistic people living within that culture would have an easier time socially integrating with the society. Since this is not reflected among autistic populations in Japan, then it weighs against your original claim.
guy that went on an history diatribe on the origin of Japan, while explaining the origin doesn't change what I simply stated.
Lol, that was me. And it appears you still don't understand the importance of the context. Your claim was that Japan was culturally autistic, and extrapolated that this was due to their self imposed period of cultural isolation.
My rebuttal was that Japan is not "culturally autistic", but that the cultural irregularities you spoke of were the inevitable results of a rapid transition to the fascist imperialism that took place during the Meijji restoration.
I explicitly told that person that I wouldn't engage, but they still get surprised and try to high road me when I don't properly engage.
No, you kept making claims without any supporting evidence. Your entire mode of discourse is constructed from a logical fallacy. You really need to look up "Appeal to the Stone
Nice, now one is using his anecdotal experience to try and counter studies that says the trend is exactly the opposite.
Lol, anecdotal evidence is still evidence. It's not weighted as highly as other forms of evidence, but it's surely better than no evidence. Which is all you have offered.
Also, claiming to possess or witness evidence that you do not substantiate is also considered anecdotal.
Also, "I'm autistic" = appeal to authority, so you just said a bunch of worthless things.
You keep misunderstanding what an "appeal to authority" is, and it's becoming more sad than funny. "an appeal to authority, or argumentum ad verecundiam, is a form of argument in which the opinion of an influential figure is used as evidence to support an argument.[1]"
So unless you believe op to be a highly influential person..... You are talking out of your ass.
If they were made a hasty generalization based on their personal experience, then it could be considered "an argument from anecdote" which is an informal logical fallacy. Meaning, that it is not not incorrect due to logical form, but may still be inaccurate.
Anecdotal evidence utilized within reason is just called a testimonial, and is utilized in legal and informal discourse regularly.
Advice : Stop here, it will lead nowhere.
Something your parents apparently had to tell your teachers a lot?
I can see where you are coming from.
But my impression is that Japan has a lot of unspoken rules on how to interact with others. And unspoken social rules are the arch enemy of autism, lmao.
They're unspoken but far from unknown, and you will get taught and reminded about it. And autistic people very much like rules and rituals, as long as they're clear and explicit.
Autistic culture, lol, I believe you're thinking about the Germans.
That's another example. The Finnish too.
But don't use that word like that, the small minded are gonna downvote you !
As politically incorrect the terminology is, I do think there is some credence to the concept. Godspeed my lemmy comment warrior