Privacy @lemmy.ml 9488fcea02a9 @sh.itjust.works 9 mo. ago

Private chat app using wifi only. No SIM available

My niece has an old iphone with no SIM/phone number. Only wifi internet access.

Looking for an app for both of us to be able to chat

She cant chat with me over signal because no phonee number. She chats with the rest of the family over imessage, but i have an android phone

Is there an app available for both android and iphone to let me chat with her?

Thanks

Edit: willing to self-host for extra privacy. My nieces and nephews are all young children so i definitely want to encourage/educate them to get off corporate controlled communications channels

65 comments

Matrix / element
- To expand with my personal experience, I self host a synapse server partly for the reason that i want my children (aged 8-14 now) to have a communication platform they can access to get ahold of me with out requireing a sim card. I do not federate, and i do not allow account sign ups. That keeps a pretty isolated instance while still allowing everyone on that homeserver to be able to talk to each other.
  
  I help them get Element setup on each device. I dont think this is overly complicated, but i am sure i am a horrible judge of complexity... They have to enter the url of the server, then their password, then they need to scan a qr code/verify from an existing device. Or, they need to enter a second passcode to verify their identity. I help them keep those secrets in bitwarden, so imo, that complexity is an opportunity to explain some opsec and encryption!
- This
  
  That gets really complicated with room keys and stuff though. So it's not particularly user friendly.
Jabber (XMPP) or Matrix/Element.
- Https://snikket.org will get you started with XMPP easily.
- Conversations on Android and Siskin on iOS.
  
  One non-techie parent has Siskin running on their iPhone and it hasn't skipped a beat in years of messaging using omemo-encrypted XMPP. For servers, they're on tigase.im and I'm on conversations.im.
  
  Here's a guide on optimum siskin settings; I don't know if defaults are better now or not.
  
  Conversations.im is free on fdroid but it's well worth paying something to the developer directly.
My friends and I all use Simplex and have been very happy. There's an annoying feature where messages in group chats are sometimes delivered out of order, but it's easy enough to live with.
"I remember my uncle, he used to force us to use some janky app to talk to him because he was afraid of the big corporations spying on him"
- Except they literally do. It's even acknowledged in the mainstream media.
  
  https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/16/technology/snowden-spying-big-tech.html
  
  What's frightening is that people more or less agree with this, but they have apathy to the point of making up excuses for it. Humanity is remarkably adaptable, and if they can adapt to supporting slavery or genocide, they will and they still do. Never mind things that are less terrible.
- Oh so that's why you don't have a brain chip lma.... (wait 5 seconds to skip ad)... o
SimpleX.
Try SimpleX chat.

Edit: or session
XMPP.

Threema.

Matrix.
Matrix would be good ig.
https://simplex.chat/ is probably the best option today
- The app is great and the server is very easy to self host.
You can use a voip/sms service to register with the traditional messaging apps: signal, telegram, etc

I.e. google voice, or https://kycnot.me/search?q=sms&type=

Though I think :

Matrix, simplex, and briar are good options that don't need sms at all
Signal v7 with username IDs is right around the corner. I'd suggest you wait a few weeks if you can.
- I'd love to see data to the contrary, but I believe even with username IDs, they will still want phone number verification. I.e. like telegram does
  
  We'll see in a few weeks time; hence my recommendation to wait a little ;)
FYI, last week someone saw that Signal merged in code for username (no phone number) support. So it might not be long until you see a beta release which allows you to sign up without a phone number.
Threema.

It costs $5 dollars, so you’re less likely to be the product. Highly private. Includes some open source code. Audited. Android and iOS. Doesn’t require phone number.

Here are the settings I recommend during first setup: Tap next instead of making a Threema Safe password Tap next instead of entering your phone number Turn off “Sync contacts”
I've used a self hosted Nextcloud for that. It's not great but it worked well enough that I didn't bother looking for better alternatives. I'm sure there are more options out there.
- Hmmmm.. I already have a nextcloud instance running... This is probably the most frictionless option for me...
  
  I'll look into NC talk on iphone for her. Thanks!
  
  If it's for text chat, you can also use a web browser.
With Signal you only need a SIM card to register the account via the Signal app on the phone. You can receive the SMS for registering on another phone. After registering you can simply use Signal over WiFi. If this is too difficult, XMPP with a good OMEMO client for E2EE is an option. Easiest to install and start with is perhaps DeltaChat, E2EE chat via email : https://delta.chat/en/ You only need to learn what to do if the E2EE is not working right away. They have a FAQ and hints in the app.
- if you use textfree, you can probably register on signal with a fake-as-fuck phone number. but i think textfree requires a valid phone number for that.
  very sucky to have to do all that.
jisti, nextcloud talk, element matrix ...go big: IRC
- Would be so cool if my kids and nieces/nephews used IRC!!
You can also try Jami.

https://jami.net/
- Use caution as there hasn't been a security audit
  
  I was going to recommend Tox, but I don't think there have been any iPhone clients with up-to-date development for years.
Session, but if you're really paranoid ofc.
- I'm too paranoid to use Session. They took a perfectly acceptable app with perfectly good forward security, broke the perfect forward secrecy, and put it back together with duct tape.
  
  And they just happen to be in a country that requires you break encryption protocols if they are too good.
  
  Coincidence? I don't know. But I don't think I trust their software since they just took someone else's and made it less safe.
  
  100%
  
  AND their file sending is centralized
Signal is no longer requiring phone numbers as of V7, so you could just wait for that to get released.
- Still need a phone number to register. Then after that, you can give out your username to others without revealing your phone number
If you want to use imessage on android:

https://www.wired.com/story/how-to-use-imessage-android/

(includes self-hosting options)

If you want to use whatsapp:

If someone else has an old (and/or prepay) sim which can receive texts, you can authenticate whatsapp that way. IRC you can also authenticate with a landline. Install whatsapp using the landline number, wait for SMS authentication to fail, then it should ask to call you. Say yes, and you'll get a call with the authentication code. Et voila.

My nieces and nephews are all young children so i definitely want to encourage/educate them to get off corporate controlled communications channels

Good luck with that, is all I can say. Kids are very susceptible to peer pressure, especially as they enter their teen years. It's only when they're in their late teens that they'll open up again and start becoming more critical.
I'm aware of the community this is posted in, but my kid talks to her grandparents via the chat features in Google photos. Works over WiFi with specific contacts and no phone number required. It lets her show them pictures she's drawn.
Google are involved of course, but there's no algorithm pushing promoted posts or any of that BS
- Wow, I am so so much against your suggestion, but I have to upvote you, for your bravery.
  
  To add something constructive: The app Element as a Matrix client works good for me.
Signal with fake number. https://sms-man.com/?ref=qPLi0ekHzn_c is a good option , yea I added the referral link, remove last part if you wish. Or use a spare number , or wait until usernames are available , or matrix nexttalk and so on as already mentioned
Oh so that's why you don't have a brain chip
Buy an iPhone.

Yeah, yeah. I know. You may not like it (or do it) but you asked for options and it’s an option.
This.

https://briarproject.org/

Unfortunately it's android only I think.
- WTH dude.. You can send letters. Unfortunately it's IRL only and isn't at all what you asked for
  
  Briar fits the requirements.
  
  No need for sms. Works over the internet, wifi only, or Bluetooth. As long as everyone has android it's a great option.
  
  That being said simplex is probably the right answer here, but no reason to antagonize the person who suggested a valid option.
~~Telegram will allow her to use a virtual number~~
- Telegram isn't private. Their privacy practices align more closely to Facebook than Signal.
  
  Sorry, I didn't know
I don't want to assume the worst but why are you trying to privately communicate with a minor? You really should include a second adult preferably there parent.

You are just asking for trouble
- why are you trying to privately communicate with a minor?
  
  Uhm... Because my niece asked me yesterday if she could message me on her phone.
  
  When i say "private" i mean not hosted/harvested by facebook or google or whatever.
  
  My brother has full acess to the device and can read our messages. Also, he is well aware that she is messaging her aunts and uncles
  
  I don't want to assume the worst
  
  Proceeds to assume the absolute worst
  
  Child abuse is a serious issue in the US. I always try to encourage good practices. I didn't mean to accuse you of doing something unethical
  
  I would still encourage getting the parents to join the same chat just for liability reason. If the child's parent is in the group chat the risks go way down.
  
  You can create a new group chat in Simplex Chat and then you can turn off disappearing messages and add the child and the parent.
- Hehehehe, how we came here, if somebody wants to message their niece that doesn't have a sim card then that somebody is doing something bad 😆
  
  (Sarcasm) 100% somebody isn't using SMS or fb messanger that somebody is a terrorist, extremist, child abuser, and drug user
  
  C'mon, somebody is asking for software advice, just mentioning that it would be cool to educate the kids how to use private services
  
  And even if somebody might be doing something shady, you can't really accuse or suspect somebody, this is really dark of you to suspect everyone around you and starting a witch hunt 😂😂😂
  
  I'd say the same thing about SMS or any other communication including in person. If you always keep two adults present you are much less likely to have problems

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