All smartphones, including iPhones, must have replaceable batteries by 2027 in the EU
The decision could have a global impact.
All smartphones, including iPhones, must have replaceable batteries by 2027 in the EU::undefined
Thank fucking god for the EU, for fighting for global digital rights where nobody else does.
According to republicans Europe is hell on Earth tho
-for Republicans that is.
Fine by me. Nice and cozy 🤗
No wonder, while plenty right wing parties are on the rise here, too, overall people are at least somewhat less removed from actual reality.
We have a fake economy. All investments, researching and efforts could be decided by state (we/public). Protecting society interests and not "investors" interests is an obligation
Does this mean we could potentially order phones from there as US folks?
Doubt Apple will have 2 different devices for each area.
One sensible right doesn't overweight the never-ending bullshit coming from them.
And imo this is not a sensible right. To change a battery in phones is easy even now. All you need is heat gun (hairdryer), new battery, phone tape (2$ ali) and 30 mins of your time..
Also watter resistance will take a hit.. I wouldn't sink my phone under watter with detachable back cover even if it had ip68 by producer. They don't even cover it in reclamation now.
Compare to how it used to be, removing the battery cover and replacing the battery on the fly. And water resistance with removable batteries has been and can be done. Stop with this nonsense.
One sensible right doesn’t overweight the never-ending bullshit coming from them.
True. Between the private healthcare, abortion rights, school shootings…
Oh wait, you weren’t talking about the US?
Apple in 2027: This is not a battery, it's a.....umm ....... Ultra High Density Low Current Super Capacitor.
EU: Ok, then in addition to that UHDLCSC you also need a removable battery.
they'll find a place to shove one of these
Introducing the UHDLCSC portable charger (which it technically a battery you can attach via USB-C-iLightningSpec©)
It might actually force them to develop inductively powered devices or some similar magic
I came across this insane opinion piece the other day: https://www.laptopmag.com/features/mind-eurown-business-for-the-sake-of-the-iphone-apple-needs-to-fight-back
It's so surreal, it feels satirical
Say, “We at Apple, Think Different.” and refuse to be shepherded into the flock with the likes of the dirty android heathens. You can’t give in so easily. First, they’ll take your Lightning ports, then they’ll take your internal battery and IP68 rating, and before you know it, they’ll take your blue iMessage bubble too.
At that point, why even bother? You might as well throw a Qualcomm Snapdragon in the next iPhone and call it a day. Congratulations Apple, you have the best UI of any Android phone on the market.
What the actual fuck?
You swear this isn't satire?
I love how higher IP rating is always the argument, it looks like everybody in this planet is doing daily deep diving and needs its smartphone to do that 😅
Are you sure it isn’t satire? I prefer to believe it is.
I sure hope it’s satire, but that pun!
“Mind EUROwn business?” chef’s kiss
I... Couldn't even make it through the whole article. Absolutely insane.
Looking at this guy's other articles, unfortunetly it does not feel as satire.
Man, Tim Apple sounds pissed.
it feels satirical
That's because it is satire.
All we need now is a headphone jack
We need SD cards more. They removed them so they can charge you 300 $ to upgrade 128gb and to force you into shitty cloud service.
Again, just anti consumer bullshit spearheaded by Apple and gargled by Samsung.
Agreed
Definitely. Never understood why some manufacturers removed jacks
Money from selling true wireless earbuds was too enticing. Even Fairphone made them and removed headphone jack and spat nonsense that it was a "point of failure."
The argument was saving space for other parts. That's true in a way. But if things needed we should have this space. What's next? Saving the space of the charger? /s
I'd be almost ready to say that we don't need them any more if Bluetooth headphones were about 100x better and cheaper
At the same time, wired earphones/headphones are already just as good with a lot less parts/complexity.
You don't need batteries, radios, and chips for coding/decoding a signal coming out of a headphone jack. You can just plumb it straight into the speakers. No need to mess with controls and all of that, which would make them a lot cheaper.
Still too much lag. I love my QC45s, but there's still just enough lag to bother me
Bluetooth headphones are solid now, as long as you have something that supports aptx HD and LL (HD for music, LL for movies/games). But yeah they're not cheap.
Can't imagine that getting mandated unfortunately
The fact that some of the gen Z crowd think it will be horrible have forgotten that it was much easier to carry 2 batteries and swap them out vs carrying a charger and cable with you everywhere. Pop in the new battery, power it on and carry on with you now full battery phone. Being tethered to a wall so you can have 10% from 20 minutes of charging is crazy.
Don't forget the option to carry a 30lb battery bank everywhere with you so you're at least tethered to something marginally more movable than a wall.
Seriously though, I miss my phone+battery in one charger and the ability to restart with full battery at around 4pm.
I used to do this. I thought it was awesome but I was literally the only person I ever knew who did this. It was not a popular thing to do.
Zero lemon had them so cheap that I had 4 extra batteries (they also had the extended batteries that would last forever but the cases were janky). I would keep one at work, one by the door to take with me and two at home if you include the one in my phone that I would swap out. I rarely charged my phone at all, just the batteries. I loved it.
The main reason I'm thinking of upgrading my mid-range phone now is the battery is on its last legs.
In fairness it's lasted 6 years, which is two years more than my Nexus 4 got. Pokemon Go eventually killed that.
I don't know when we all just collectively accepted that batteries should last one day and not a second more. Sure, it's doing more than a Nokia 3310 ever did, but sometimes you really do need it to last more than that, like when travelling.
I'd much rather just have a bigger battery. Replacement is more useful for longevity for me.
You're not going to get a bigger battery though. Battery size is a pretty much maxed out, the only way to make a battery bigger would be to make the battery physically bigger. This would make the phone bigger / heavier. So it's not going to happen.
If you are waiting on some magic new battery chemistry it'll come along eventually but you'll be waiting a while, and stubbornly not having a replaceable battery in the meantime isn't going to make any difference.
What is this sorcery? Wouldn’t this cause issues with internal clock and stuff?
It will also likely mean easier repairs. Louis Rossman just did a video on this
This. People read this and think about the removable batteries of Nokia bricks and plastic hardshells, but this would really hamper with IP68 rating. It probably just means the users must be able to replace the battery themselves, instead of artificially locking it down with DRM. And maybe provide some documentation. Otherwise phones would become so much worse, than they have been for more than a decade.
It's NOT just phones.
It's EVERYTHING with a battery. Including cars, laptops, e-bikes, video game controllers, headphones etc. (im not even sure if there are exceptions, such as tiny tiny "airpod" like things.. ?)
And they must be (with a few exceptions) replacable by a "layman", without the use of special tools - which means no heat pads, to soften up glue etc etc. (and for gods sake, i hope it also means apple can't hardwareID lock a battery)
an exception mentioned in the EU document about the law says, high power batteries for example in an electric car, must be done by a profesional - but of course it still has to be "replacable" and not.. tear the whole car apart and rebuild it using new batteries.
replacable batteries in headphones, bluetooth mice, laptops etc, is gonna be awesome.
and lets not forget, they have to recycle the old ones - and produce new batteries using recycled materials.
in fact, i will try to hold on replacing my current (2 year old) phone, and wait to get one before 2027. Usually the battery turns to shit in 3ish years.
Gonna make a guess here and assume that the EU probably wants to increase lithium recycling. Removable batteries would probably make that goal a bit more achievable
I’m having a hard time finding the actual regulation text with all these details. Anyone have that?
You could buy fairphone if you don't want to wait and your battery can't handle it anymore
The cars will be fun to see unfold considering new EV platforms have them integrated straight into the platform the chassis is built upon.
Stand back everyone, I'm going to attempt nuance.
Industrial design is about tradeoffs. Making the battery easily replaceable will come with drawbacks. Maybe it'll be size, or water resistance, or durability, but something will have to be compromised. The extent of the compromises remains to be seen, and people will have different opinions about whether it's worth it.
Ordinarily I'm not a fan of regulators making product design decisions, because that's exactly the kind of thing market forces are supposed to be good at. In this case, though, there's a demand that's clearly not being met, and companies clearly have a vested interest in pushing consumers toward replacing their old hardware rather than repairing it, which creates externalities markets are unable to account for. Market failures like this are exactly the kind of situation where government regulation is needed.
If by size you mean it's going to become fatter, I'm all for it. PSP Slim was basically as slim as I need for things which go into my pocket. Laptops don't, so these can be twice fatter than that.
About "market failures" ... This particular "market failure" is strongly connected to patent law, which cuts down most of the potential competition. So maybe it's not a "market failure" at all if you have monopolies and oligopolies because of patents. Because patent law is not a market mechanism, obviously.
Considering Samsung during their cost cutting days designed Galaxy Xcover Pro 2 without drawback just fine, I think everyone will be able to do it without drawback just fine as well.
Maybe it’ll be size, or water resistance, or durability, but something will have to be compromised.
definitely size at the least. We'll probably have to go back to removable backs so I imagine water proofing will be difficult without adding at least a little size.
Industrial design is about tradeoffs
Nope, for battery removal, nope!
Are you going to say that pentalobe screws is also a trade-off.
Also, smartphone are just too thin and it's because you use a case that you tend to forget about it.
It's fine to say that the tradeoff doesn't matter to you because you're fine with the extra size, but it's kind of absurd to claim that there's no tradeoff and also claim that the tradeoff isn't a big deal in the same comment. Some people may prefer the slimmer size that non-removable batteries allow, and we should at least accept that a downside of this regulation is that those people will be left with fewer thin options, even if it doesn't seem like a big deal to you or I.
My current device and the two before that all have had removable batteries. I've always thought built in batteries are stupid and it's nice to finally notice that other people agree. Hopefully they next mandate that it has to be able to be taken apart with a screwdriver and spare parts must be able to be purchased straight from the manufacturer.
Ya the only reason I get new phones is because the battery gets too weak. I could easily keep the same device for 5+ years if I could swap batteries
Hopefully they next mandate that it has to be able to be taken apart with a screwdriver
It does include that, mostly. It says that any tools that aren't commonly available without proprietary rights or restrictions (i.e. screwdrivers) have to be provided by the manufacturers free of charge
I prefer ip68 to easily accessible battery. I’ll need to change my battery maybe once every 3 years, but I need to know it can handle moisture far more often than that.
I prefer ip68 to easily accessible battery
You can have both. My Galaxy XCover 6Pro is ip68 rated.
The another benefit with removable batteries is that if you have two you can go from 0 to 100% charge in about a minute.
Can be done with screws and rubber seal, no need for glue and glass.
I prefer ip68 to easily accessible battery.
All it needs is that little rubber band, and you have to handle it carefully when closing the lid.
Psst those Brands are not your friends and might lie about their reasons to make batteries non-removable.
Any moderately well built phone won't die just because you took it out in the rain.
I have a handheld marine vhf radio with a removable battery that I can throw in the ocean and it will work and continue to work for days. Don't believe the bs the manufacturers tell you.
Coming soon from Apple. Screws that require a 4D tesseract shaped screwdriver to undo.
But if you can undo them, feel free to change the battery.
The EU defines user replaceable as you can remove the batteries with common tools. Common tools is defined as a Phillips or flathead screwdriver. So even Nintendo and their stupid try-force screw thing won't be acceptable.
Ahh yes, screws that can only be unscrewed using The Force
I'm sure apple will happily sell you the proprietary tool to turn their proprietary screws for a very reasonable price.
They're not allowed to do that. The tool design has to be freely available for any manufacturer to fabricate free of charge, they're not allowed to try and use this as a profit making exercise.
I don't know why it is that every single time the EU comes up with a law there's always people in the comments that say it's a bad law and that they haven't thought it out, when they've not read the documentation. All of the little tricks that the companies might come up with to turn this to their advantage have already being thought of and protected against. This is exactly what happened with the mandating the USB-C port.
Pesky EU throwing their weight around giving consumers more rights! --Brexiteer logic
Oh well hopefully we'll (UK) still benefit from it. Easier to design one phone than "EU" and "Rest of world" versions after all.
Easier to design one phone than “EU” and “Rest of world” versions after all.
I mean ... sometimes those companies consider it preferable to actually have two versions.
That's already happening though. The US version of the IPhone doesn't have a physical Sim while the "rest of the world" version does.
That's a fairly minor alteration though compared to the redesign required to have a removable battery ..
Honestly good. Usb C is so good.
I have a couple of 100w chargers around the house, no messing about can charge nearly everything at full speed.
Can't want to be able to buy used phone and just pop in new battery. Still we need a law to allow easier mobile operating systems development for third-parties.
I kind of doubt that support is dropped due to difficulty in development at this point, it's pretty much planned obsolescence with a weakly credible excuse, the only thing that can truly work would be having a common AOSP image that you can switch to whenever you want, since that's vendor neutral you wouldn't have to wait for your phone maker to create their useless customization of the latest version of Android.
How I wish Android had been copyleft, maybe everybody would have concentrated development effort on a single platform then, instead of making awful skins with bloat, sponsored apps, etc. with extra features on top that should have really been contributed to mainline
Did you know about LineageOS ? https://lineageos.org/
You are not going to find many legislators understanding the difference between this and open documentation for iOS/Android developers.
They should also demand unlocked boot loaders and open drivers for all devices. That or steep penalties if they don't support the devices for at least 10 years. We should have manuals and specifications for every component, really. We really need to reduce waste.
This needs to be true of notebooks too. I love my 2015 Macbook Air, but the battery lasts about five minutes and I use it way too much to take the time to get it replaced. Especially when it's old enough to not be supported soon. But if I could just spend $50 and replace the battery myself without fucking things up, which I totally would as things stand now, I would be able to use it without keeping it plugged in all the time like I used to.
Good news, it applies to all battery operated devices, not just phones
A portable battery should be considered to be removable by the end-user when it can be removed with the use of commercially available tools and without requiring the use of specialised tools, unless they are provided free of charge, or proprietary tools, thermal energy or solvents to disassemble it. Commercially available tools are considered to be tools available on the market to all end users without the need for them to provide evidence of any proprietary rights and that can be used with no restriction, except health and safety-related restrictions.
I'm glad they got specific. I wonder where Apple's self-service battery replacement program falls under this? AFAIK it's not free. They charge a fee to rent the specialized tools, which are also proprietary.
This gives Apple a few choices:
I'm not sure that #1 and #2 are options, I think Apple's tools would still be considered "Specialized" or "proprietary" since they can't have any proprietary rights or restrictions, so I don't think that they can get away with selling them at a huge markup. I'm no lawyer, but to me that reads like they either need to give the tools away for free, or change the iPhone so it can be disassembled with regular screwdrivers. Given those choices, I'm thinking #2 sounds a lot more likely unless they can weasel out of some loophole
The current tools are not even close. Very proprietary, very specialized, not commercially available. Check out this video or this one. These things are rental only because they are exorbitantly expensive and only really useful to iPhone, and IIRC they differ for some lines/models.
This law absolutely will require an iPhone redesign, which I think is going to be somewhat controversial. If you check out the iFixit teardown it's pretty obvious there is not a lot of space. Even the larger Pro Max is tight because I think in the case of the larger phones, they tend to fill the space with battery. What I think would be the easiest is make it more like the iPhone 4. In that version, there were like two security screws on the bottom, and then you could remove the whole back plate. Some battery would have to be sacrificed to add space for connectors and a retaining system of some sort.
I say controversial because this is probably going to mean less day-to-day battery, but I think I'm in favor of that rather than having to deal with going through Apple to do a battery replacement and get another year or two out of the device. If they make it more like the hot-swappable old days of Nokia's and Motorola's past, I can't really see anyone being pissy. In practice these days, I don't worry about battery life anyway, so it's hard to not see this being a win.
As someome who was able to disassemble and repurpose multiple iphone 4's.
This was the way.
unless they are provided free of charge
Honestly, they should have said "fuck you, no tools whatsoever to replace the battery."
My mid-2010's phone has this and probably the only reason I still have it (instead of contributing to electronic waste) is because I can replace the battery so easily, which I've done at least twice.
Will literally anyone in the EU help me immigrate? ill do anything to get out of Murica.
I should make a business out of that lol
So tempted to wait until 2027 to buy my next iPhone
Lol
Not a bad idea but there are flaws and this also doesn't seem to address the issue of pricing or availability.
The your last point the text specify that batteries can be safely removed and replaced using “basic and commonly available tools” and “without causing damage to the appliance or batteries.”
Yes, with basic and common tools. Doesn't mean they have to be of quality, cheap metal screws for example. Hopefully not the case but it'd be annoying.
For example if they opt for the screw method, over the pop-off back (which I'd prefer). There will be screws to remove, most likely a gasket to replace, tape or something that ensures the battery doesn't move around etc.
Even with current battery replacements, there is more parts then just the battery during the replacement. And of course "without causing damage" except if you have to remove the back that is glass and knock it off the table, that's a +1 for apple, same if you loose a tiny screw or something else that is 1/1000 chance but Apple still makes money.
We already have regulations about spare parts availability and pricing for some devices (mainly household appliances) - and it is planned to slowly enforce regulation for other device types over time. They'll watch the market, and if apple decides to be stupid that'll come pretty quickly.
Just like with the appliances where some vendors had their shops ready way before regulation we already have some phone vendors prepare for that - like Nokia selling some spares via ifixit. So if apple decides to play stupid games it'll be up against vendors that'll be completely fine pushing regulation through quickly as hurting apple will only benefit them.
Information like this gives hope for a better tomorrow.
Just like with the appliances where some vendors had their shops ready way before regulation we already have some phone vendors prepare for that - like Nokia selling some spares via ifixit. So if apple decides to play stupid games it'll be up against vendors that'll be completely fine pushing regulation through quickly as hurting apple will only benefit them.
You mean like Apple’s Self Service Repair, which has been available for a few years now?…
The neat thing about EU regulations is that they are iterated over constantly, so even if they don't get it 100% right the first time, they're able to nail things down in subsequent iterations. Look at how quickly they struck down any fantasies Apple had of still fucking people over with their own type c implementation fuckery. The direction the EU is taking is already doing plenty good for the entire world.
This insufferable shit is exhausting
Back in 2014 you just bought a spare and replaced it, nowadays they all want to play the same bullshit games Apple innovated on. It was was about time an authority that ruled over a market with significant purchasing power made a decision against it.
Although I think it's too expensive, this is why we need frame.work to make a phone too (or any company to do this). Great idea, good products, their markup just seems too high imo.
Is the glass half full or half empty? For you, I guess it's half empty.
Rules can be updated and tightened if needed. This is a good step, another could be taken if they don't play nice.
I don't see how you decide what my beliefs or views are by a single message, interpreted by you. Pretty unfair to assume not to mention when I already stated "Not a bad idea". But your message makes a great point, the glass is half full and they have more work to make it full.
Of course it's a step in the right direction. However, it could be better if they included more than just requiring the battery to be removable before hand. As is we have to wait until 2027, and then further delays for adjustments to be made etc. Why not spend the time now to add to it to ensure an available market.
If i remember right, all those shitholes are addressed?
To be honest, some may be to an extent but I've heard of issues. The last one, I don't see how it can be address "add more parts needed, like seals, screws that strip too easily, that annoying sticky tape etc.". Because they may take extra steps to ensure durability and integrity (mainly to just make more $$ from those doing it themselves.).
I also find it odd because for me at least in the US, it cost me less than $100 for a iPhone 13 Pro Max battery replacement after a little more than 1yr of use, primarily went out due to extreme cold weather. Is the problem more towards a lack of authorized repair locations or their pricing? I'm sincerely curious what is the root issue here.
They could start selling tiers of battery quality which TBH sounds awful if they make the best battery life duration paywalled.
Making them easily replaceable will create a market, a better one than we have today, almost any battery you can buy today as end-user are trash-tier.
Quality 3rd party batteries will rise up if the phone manufacturers fuck around.
EU is killing it right now. Charging port regulation and now removable batteries in everything. If companies are forced to produce different models for the EU maybe just maybe it will be cost effective to just make all their phones with removable batteries. One can hope, cause you know the US wont pass that type of consumer protection regulation.
Honestly, I'm all for it if it means bringing back ridiculously sized phone batteries with huge bumps that can act as a finger shelf. My note 2 with a 4200mah battery was a beast in 2013.
Or the Zero Lemon 9000mAh battery back for that phone. Insane capacity, but a "tad" bulky.
Totally forgot about the complete back replacements like that! I'll take 5. . Week long battery life here I come.
The Note 2 was my favorite phone. The replaceable back with the cover option was the best. Want your phone to look brand new? That'll only cost $20.
I never replaced the battery though.
EU citizenship is a dream.
Looking forward to seeing If companies will just do the bare minimum to pass or if we'll see some actual innovation. It would be cool to be able to buy spare batteries, that are quick to replace and easy to carry around along with a charging station or something so you can always have a full battery with you.
I bet The Apple battery, just a replacement or a dedicated module like I said above, will be starting at like $249
Apple will figure out a way to DRM batteries so that no one but them can sell them and they'll cost as much as a new phone.
Modern batteries have a thin polymer shell. Sit down with that spare battery in the same pocket as your keys, and your leg is going to catch on fire.
My old Nokia had a swappable battery - but that battery was thicker than an entire iPhone.
Quality power banks have been around for years.
This is just extra steps to a fat phone.
I see something like this every few years.EU has to make a fine so heavy that it's impossible to just pay as a tax of doing business.
Unless that's all it really is.
The EU has a good track record on making companies adopt these standards.
USB C has been pushed for at least four years now. No it does not have a good track record.
Maybe Google is nice enough to comply. Fair! But apples larger and doesn't. Which speaks volumes. You know what I mean? It's ironic because USA does nothing about it...at all. But it's unfortunate because every iPhone still uses that crappy lightning cable and AFAIK I read something saying they make $200m a year on accessories like those cables and adapters.
God bless the European union, doing the kind of consumer protection that America won't.
I tried Ctrl+F searching to see whether anyone here had pasted the link to the law, and didn't find anything, so I went to Presearch and found this, which appears to be the official European Union log for it, and has attached PDFs at the end with what seem to be the nitty-gritty for further reading...
If I've found an errant page that just looks official, please link something better for those looking for the legalese
Care to summarize so your logic is spelled out?
I remember when apple put out a software update to intentionally throttle the phone's processor, to save charge on it's irreplacable battery. I hope this prevents companies doing this sort of shit as well.
I think apple will comply by including a dongle battery that can be replaced but no one will actually carry with their phone
The law says, "Designing portable batteries in appliances in such a way that consumers can themselves easily remove and replace them;"
Key part being "in appliances".
They know with whom they are dealing
Now will companies also offer this in the usa or will they have 2 models for sale
You know they are gonna have a special EU model. I can feel it.
I think that would depend on how much EU citizens care about being fully waterproof. I assume there will be focus groups.
If that is a high priority for EU customers, then it will cause Apple to have to do an entire redesign. If they ended up doing that, then I don't see any reason why they would make a separate US model line. If EU citizens don't care about waterproof and are fine with it being water resistant, then I could see them having a waterproof non removable US version and an EU version that has removable, but is only water resistant.
There is a real risk that the US eventually follows suit, and there is no reason to re-tool twice if you don't need to.
I'm not sure anybody really cares about waterproof. I have a waterproof smart watch, but realistically I'm not going to wear it swimming.
Pretty much every phone that I've ever owned that has died has died not because it was introduced to some water, but because the battery failed. Cost benefit analysis would indicate that a user replaceable battery is of a higher priority for most consumers. And the rest just won't care one way or the other.
Anyway the current iPhone isn't waterproof, it's only water resistant. Very few companies will advertise their phones is actually waterproof in case somebody tries it.
I doubt most companies would bother. Apple is probably the only one with the volume to bother.
True epically since they have a huge share of the American market
You can already replace your own iPhone battery without any technical expertise. I hope the law is more specific than that, because there are many things OEMs can do to comply and still make it a giant pain in the ass to do.
You can already replace your own iPhone battery without any technical expertise.
Press x to doubt. Xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
I've replaced multiple iPhone batteries with only a YouTube video. The problem is that the glue and placement can be a complete pain in the ass and user replacement voids warranty. Hopefully the law specifically states that user replacement should have a certain level of ease and does not void warranty.
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Can you, though? No, you can’t. Its really hard to get right and super easy to fuck up. Source: Me.
So is changing out any part on your car. It remains to be seen how this is applied.
Most people can't put on a screen protector properly. I wouldn't perhaps go as far as claiming replacing iPhone battery takes no technical expertise. It's not hard but not quite easy either. In the case of iPhone there's also that even if you do it properly the device still detects it's not the original Apple approved battey so they limit functions on your phone such as battery health, true tone etc. New MacBooks does this aswell.
They probably need additional legislation to stop companies from locking down products when non own parts are used.
With my shaky hands and clumsiness? I'd kill my phone just by touching the innards.
Technical expertise includes really basic things like being comfortable using a screwdriver on delicate equipment. Lots of people lack that level of expertise.
When Apple want to, they can design amazing things. So I look forward to see if they come up with a clever Apple-like way to do this. Or maybe they just make it easier to remove the back.
Waterprood Devuces do not need a Changeable Batterie because its a Loophole in the Paper
I hope this loophole only applies for waterproof devices that keep their warranty if they have water damage. The current system for all(?) IP68 devices is that water damage can be detected with liquid damage indicators and is seen as an accident. Accidents aren't covered by warranty so waterproofness of a device means .. nothing. As a side note, a Pixel 7 pro isn't waterproof.
Thanks for the heads up on the pixel 7, I'm planning on buying one in the next few months
I'm not sure if English is your first language, but that's not the exact wording from the document.
Emphasis mine:
To ensure the safety of end-users, this Regulation should provide for a limited derogation for portable batteries from the removability and replaceability requirements set for portable batteries concerning appliances that incorporate portable batteries and that are specifically designed to be used, for the majority of the active service of the appliance, in an environment that is regularly subject to splashing water, water streams or water immersion and that are intended to be washable or rinseable.
To me this would be things meant to be used in and around water (underwater cameras, water sensors, etc.), not water-resistant devices like smartphones that aren't specifically designed to be used in that kind of environment.
I'm afraid they will still find ways to make replacements expensive
Truf
As long as they can engineer a water resistant phone with these guidelines I'm all for it.
They have in the past and then they decided, no, let's say it's too difficult and use it as one of the excuses to guarantee limited lifetime of a product.
It's still a thing. Samsung has one.
Yeah that was honestly my only concern with this. That and durability. But it doesn't really seem like a problem. Replaceable batteries also means replaceable back glass (or screen?) So that's awesome.
I have think really really hard to find an event in the last 14years where I would have needed a water resistant phone. It doesn't need to be IP67
I personally have been bringing my phone in the shower for years. It also gives me peace of mind when I'm doing outdoor activities around water.
I remember once I had my phone in my pocket at a party before they were water resistant and I got knocked into the pool. Would have been all set if that phone had water resistance.
Now upgradable storage and memory on apple computers please
The thing is, what Apple is doing with memory actually does make sense from a performance and efficiency standpoint. Modern CPUs and GPUs have become so fast that the time signals take to travel between components (like memory and CPU) has become critical (especially in their new M1 products as memory is being shared between the CPU and GPU). That being said, the same definitely isn't true for storage. Apple soldering SSDs to the motherboard is just them trying to rip their customers off.
God bless the EU. They are just so far ahead of the rest of the world on consumer protection (and much else). Will hopefully force everyone else into compliance.
This needs to be sooner, they 100% have the ability to adhere to this law after the next generation
So, would it be possible to get an eu model with any chance of working here in the U.S? I love a removable battery
most manufacturers may just make a global model and claim they're doing it for the good of the consumer because they're just so nice. Even though its caused by the EU, and making one just for EU that has replacable batteries (which most consumers WANT) , would be shitty
its most likely gonna be possible yes. its probably as simple as importing one... from whichever online retailer you like.
fuck yeah!! eu rules!
Hell yes!! Step 1 of who knows towards better repairability for one of the most complex technologies accessible to most of the people on the planet.
Hopefully these companies will realize that it's just easier to make these changes globally and trickle this down to other countries, but we'll have to see. I personally would want the US to continue this trend, like with what we saw in the Agricultural Right to Repair Act. Maybe an Electronics Right to Repair Act?
Next up: SCREENS.
I long for the day that a cracked screen becomes a simple swap-out fix.
Especially since so many corporate shitlords seem to intentionally "engineer obsolescence" by making them not very durable to even minor drops with reasonable cases (or various other bizarre things, like pets jumping up while you're taking a picture or similar)
Only EU though.
Which is a large market and could also possibly force change in the US for example. Like the USB-C connector for iPhone ruling which is also being looked at in the US market.
This will come to other markets. The Brussels Effect is strong.
Well when the USB Type-C connector was forced on them, they didn't make an EU iPhone. Let's see if this is enough to push them over.
No doubt an unpopular opinion, but I'd rather keep the IP rating than be able to swap my own battery without the phone becoming a literal brick.
I doubt this is a scenario where we can have both.
You can absolutely have both. In fact the galaxy S5 had both a swappable battery and IP67. Tons of devices do. Glued construction was always about reducing manufacturing costs, not about an IP rating.
Galaxy S5 had a removable battery and IP67 and is a 2014 phone. The technology was there, so it has probably evolved enough in this 9 years.
I would rather have expandable storage mandated than replaceable batteries but obviously that's not going to happen.
Sony Xperia latest ones have headphone jack, IP rating for salt water, SD card, toolless sim tray and headphone jack. With a 4k screen. It's absolutely fine. Manufacturers just don't care.
There are a few phones that have removable batteries with good water resistance. No phone is completely waterproof, so I don't really care whether It can withstand 1 meter of water for 5 minutes verse 10 meters of water for an hour. It's not like I am taking my phone snorkeling.
The Samsung S5 had an IP rating of 67, which can withstand temporary submersion and had removable batteries. I frigging loved that phone.
Speaking of this topic, can someone recommend some "free" phone, free as in speech, with disk storage of at least 0.75 TB (with or without sd card)?
I wanted to get a pixel and install graphene on it, but the max storage there is 256 GB, which is miserably low, with no sd card. I'm considering Fairphone. Any suggestions?
The heck is a "free speech" phone? Very few phones prevent you from unlocking the bootloader and putting whatever software you want on it. The problem is what software do you want?
If you're concerned about Google snooping on you, first off, get an iPhone. (They are marginally less snoopy, but it's still not great.)
If you're concerned about stock android, buy any smartphone and put Lineage or Graphene on it. You can then install Google's services on it if you want (play store!), but at that point I'd save your time and stick with the normal version of Android that shipped with your phone.
If you're really concerned about FOSS and having control of your device, put a Linux mobile distro on your phone - see here. Be warned, even the best mobile Linux distros are miles behind Android in terms of usability for the average user. If you want to go all in on open source, get a Pinephone or Fairphone and put Linux on it.
As a note of caution, lots of people (including me) think they want a FOSS device until they have to use one. You can totally go FOSS and fully libre, but it does come at the expense of convenience. I am quite happy with my pixel with stock android and all of the convenience that provides, but each to their own.
Why would someone need 750gb of storage?
He might be an audiophile who downloads all their high-resolution (I think that's the term) music.
That's like 10 movie files in 1080p. That's not some ungodly amount of storage.
Galaxy note 20 Ultra can go up to 512gb and has a micro SD slot plus support for custom roms
It's not a "free" phone.
Why just batteries?
With more context it makes sense. It isn't just smartphone batteries, but lots of consumer electronics. Phones, tablets, cameras, ebikes/scooters/cars. And other parts of the legislation are focused on battery recycling targets for long-term sustainability.
From another article on the resolution:
All electric vehicle and rechargeable industrial batteries above 2kWh will need to have a compulsory carbon footprint declaration, label, and digital passport.
The parliament also passed new targets for collecting waste and recovering materials from old batteries.
They're targeting batteries (first) because they use so much lithium and other relatively rare metals, and having so many batteries up in landfills is not only terrible pollution when they leech into water and stuff, but it's just not compatible with our current and foreseeable dependence on lithium battery tech.
It's the only component that would wear out no matter how you use the phone.
Because it's a consumable that renders the entire device useless when it goes bad.
Kinda late now, we used to have battery problems, they would lose performance after 1-2 years, but not anymore. It would be better if they forced manufacturers to provide easy glass and touchscreen replacement which tend to fail much before batteries
I've replaced batteries for 1 year old phones.
My last few phones had cracked screen after 2-3 years and battery could still hold for a day or more. But yeah battery used to be a first thing to fail on almost every phone before that. Just my experience
they would lose performance after 1-2 years, but not anymore
I definitely get battery degradation after 1-2 years still. A lot of phones have good enough total battery life now that it doesn't matter nearly as much, but it definitely still happens
Though I applaud this as a next step in taking back ownership of that which we buy, I do wonder how this will affect keeping phones dust and water tight, like the IP68 rating...
Thats not up to you to decipher. Those companies made those claims. Now they have to back them.
I was talking about devices up until now. You can seal them closed, and you got your watertight devices. How would you get those devices at all if you can't seal them completely?
I'd hate not having a watertight phone, use it in water all the time.
And bring back the TRS port for both midrange and flagship devices, I hope.
They better define the term «replacable» extensively !
Good thing to wake up to in the morning.
Good idea, terrible execution. I'd prefer they make manufacturers display the state of a battery (iOS already has this) and provide a single free battery replacement, which doesn't expire with a warranty period. Also, battery replacement service should be free, customers should only pay for battery itself. Current implementation is ridiculous - I don't want the return of fat smartphones with detachable battery.
Plenty of phones with a removable battery are slim.
My LG V20 has a removable battery and it's slim as I could want. I even have it in a case and it's fine.
While I am for this, this could create more E waste. Now there will be companies producing more batteries as consumers can now swap out batteries. So it's possible that tons of batteries now just sit on shelves for years and eventually end up going to waste.
Compared to currently having to replace the entire phone when the battery dies?
Yeah exactly, isn't it causing way more E waste when people have to replace their phones every 3-5 years because of a battery only? Hopefully now in the future you can replace that battery and use your phone even longer. Resulting in only batteries being replaced which could probably be recycled somehow (I'm no expert on this, so no clue if what I'm saying is correct :P )
It depends on the amount of extra batteries that are made. In 2022, 225 million iPhones were sold. If an extra battery for every phone was produced, but only half of those consumers ever buy a new battery then we are looking at over 100 million wasted batteries. Then eventually all of those 225 million consumers would get a new phone anyways, so it still becomes waste at some point. I'm sure they will get better at predicting how many extra batteries to make eventually though. I do wonder how much it's needed these days though. I get a new device every ~ 18 months but my spouse uses devices for ~ 5 years before getting a new one. She usually gets a new one just because of newer features, battery degradation doesn't seem to be as much of an issue anymore.
The problem with removable batteries is that you sacrifice water-proofness. That's why iPhone batteries aren't removable: Apple found that, on average, people prefer a water-proof phone over a replaceable battery. If you make the battery to removable, you can't use sealants anymore, you're just relying on a gasket.
Personally, I would rather have a phone that can handle being dropped in a sink full of dishes and am happy to pay $80 every 3 years to have the battery swapped.
So what about the iPhones pre IP68 certification? They never wanted this
As others have mentioned, the Galaxy S5 was water resistant and had a replaceable battery. Phones are generally not water proof, so don't go dunking them in water expecting them to work. Use a case for that, also if it floats all the better.
Adding a sealant when you close it isn't a huge chore, although it's nice to be able to just replace the battery without any tools, it's better than charging. Also it would still be water resistant until the first battery change.
Watches have replaceable batteries while having replaceable batteries, too.
As a side note, if you drop electronics in water, take the battery out before taking them out of the water, so that the short doesn't destroy them. The battery will be toast, but that's cheaper to replace.
Galaxy s5, all of the galaxy xcover phones. And also user removable in a sense that a user must be able to remove it with widely available tools or the tool must be provided. So manufacturers will probably start using screws and give you the screwdriver or something. Probably would also mean longer software upgrades since users probably would not feel the need to buy a new phone every time the battery dies.
I really don’t like the idea of governments regulating tech and innovations. Although this seems like a good idea, it could severely limit companies in the way they design their phones.
People think that Apple and Samsung maliciously make irreplaceable batteries, but these people barely know how to use their phone in the first place, much less how the phone was engineered. Battery implementation in super thin devices is not a simple affair. Requiring tech to have certain things is really dumb. Let the capitalistic market and buyers figure out what they need. Don’t force it through government.
we can do better than soldered batteries inside unopenable super thin phone cases. These companies have no motivation to innovate any sort of repairability, and now they will have it.
Lol this is such bull shit
It’s not about motivation it’s about need
Nobody is clamoring for this accept the EU government and some right to repair fanatics who most likely don’t repair jack in their own lives and haven’t needed nor requested replacement smartphone batteries
Because nobody needs them anymore lol. Market buddy if this was something important we’d be getting it
Agreed. Too bad the 11 disagrees didn’t have the stones to voice their dissenting opinion
Although I am also very much against government control over things and believe that for every one good control law from the government, we get 5 things that infringe upon our rights, I believe this particular legislation is a good one. I don't think that phone manufacturers maliciously make irreplaceable batteries (although they do many other malicious things, so who knows), but there was a race for thinness back in the mid-2000s when irreplaceable batteries were "invented"; now it's just inertia. In any case, I can see a demand for fully repairable items and believe that the market is moving in that direction; governments are just pushing it a little.
Fuck the EU. I hope we still get good small phones and EU assholes only get big bloated as fuck ones.
This is EU actively making my phone more shitty.
How old are you? Small phones with replacement batteries have always existed. Batteries being removable has nothing to do with size, that's industry propaganda.
If anything, phones have gotten BIGGER as batteries became non-removable. But that's just because people buy big phones more.
Who says there can't be SFF phones with replacable batteries. In fact, old samsung phones had replacable batteries.
And they were bigger than comparable htc's, were flimsy, and ip68 was a pipe dream.
Search for galaxy s5. And there were plenty of other ones too. Or you just forgot the /s
What about the small phones back in the 00's with replaceable batteries?
All of them bigger than integrated solutions.
