Git Gud and Helldivers
Git Gud and Helldivers
I've been trying to be helpful on the Helldivers sub. When people say "X is impossible and Y needs to be nerfed/buff I'd go earnestly say "okay this is how it works, and these are the tools you have, and here is how you can use those tools to solve the problem or succeed or overcome the situation.
And, invariably, what I get back is abuse and scorn and insults and incredulity. The poster, and the hundreds of people supporting them, don't want the solution to be within them. They don't want to hear that they have not mastered game systems, that they don't understand how the weapons and enemies work, that they're making mistakes that can be corrected or that they can learn new tactics that will grant them victory.
The problem cannot lie in them. The problem must be external. The game must be broken, or bugged, or the devs must be fools. They are good enough and skilled enough and smart enough to play on the highest difficulty, but they cannot win, so the highest difficulty is broken and the devs must mechanically reduce the difficulty until they can easily, effortlessly conquer, until their "power fantasy" of unlimited unearned prowess can be restored. If they are challenged, if they face difficulty, if they face hardship, that is a flaw in the game. All obstacles must be smoothed down. Their favorite weapon should be the ideal choice for all situations.
At first I was overjoyed at the opportunity to share my knowledge and expertise, to help others learn what I had learned and enjoy the sublime feeling of mastery.
Then i was confused, because the rejection of simple tactics, simple explanations of systems and ideas, must mean I was not communicating clearly enough. Surely, if I only found the right words?
Then, anger. Why won't they engage with these ideas? Why do they reject simple explanations clearly explained? Why do they insult and berate instead of questioning or interrogating? Where is the desire to grow, to overcome, to perfect?
Finally; contempt. I do not care. These fools, let them stew in their own ignorance and misery. What can be said to them? They cannot be educated, not because they are illiterate, but because they refuse the mere possibility of education. They refuse to accept the world as it is, instead demanding from god the utopia they surely deserve.
What can you say to someone like that? What can you do but sneer "git gud" and move on?
I'd never really questioned where the "git gud" cliche that Dark Souls players threw around so mercilessly came from. But now I suspect that I know.
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I think the type of people to continually post like that on subreddits etc have already made their choice. When I'm struggling to get better at something I'm usually reading other people's posts and advice, not posting myself to complain. If there is something specific I really can't understand how to do, I'll ask about that specific thing and take the advice I get. I suspect most people making posts like you describe are just their to vent and complain and don't really want help, hence their shitty reaction to you.
Personally, as an old who likes games but doesn't invest much time into getting good at them, I don't get why people are so worried about sucking. Especially in a PvE game. Especially, especially in a PvE game where the idea that you're actually idiotic canon fodder beneath all the ooh-rah bullshit is thematically baked in.
I just wish I had something that would play Helldivers. It seems like a game I'd really enjoy being rubbish at. And if someone helped me get better too, then cool.
With Helldivers, the game is very challenging and demanding on the player and the team. You can suck as long as you cooperate with your team and can contribute to success, but having one or two people on the team who don't understand how to play can really hurt the experience for everyone.
A core example is enemy patrols - Enemy groups patrol the map. If they see you they will call in an unlimited number of reinforcements. under most circumstances the reinforcements will never stop coming. If a player understands this they'll deal with any immediate threats and run away. The goal is to complete the objectives, enemies are an obstacle to completing that goal.
But players who don't understand that, who think they're playing a horde shooter, or who stubbornly believe that the in-game propaganda about Helldivers being one person armies is how you're supposed to actually play, they'll just sit there and keep fighting and keep fighting and keep fighting until they get overrun. At best, the rest of the team leaves them behind to die by themselves. At worst they constantly aggro enemies all around, making the mission much much harder for no benefit.
In a PvP game you can shuffle teams to make sure no one is always on the losing side. but with a challenging, demanding PvE game there's no fairness. The game is trying to kill you, and Helldivers in particular doesn't have a merciful AI director tasked with challenging you but not overwhelming you. Helldivers wants to kill you. A team can handle one or two players who aren't very good at shooting or struggle to consistently call in air strikes, but only one or maybe two, and only if they otherwise understand the game loop and are able to work with and contribute to the team. Four skilled individuals, playing as individuals, who don't cooperate are going to struggle. Any number of unskilled individuals who are not cooperating with the team are going to make things much much harder for everyone.
It's a team game that requires teamwork and cooperation in a way that most games don't.
Have you tried HD1? There's a small but steady community and it's a great game. In a lot of ways HD2 is HD1 in 3d, with the majority of systems and concepts intact.
If they see you they will call in an unlimited number of reinforcements. under most circumstances the reinforcements will never stop coming. If a player understands this they'll deal with any immediate threats and run away.
They're not really unlimited, breaches have a cooldown and another breach can not be called until that cooldown is up. The issue is that 1 person can't clear a breach wave before the next one is called in by themselves, so groups often get overrun if they're split between people focusing the objective vs people who want to clear waves fully.
A 4 person group that actually fights off these waves can completely fight them off and make the fighting go cold. A single individual can not. Groups should decide whether they're gonna be the run n gun objective hunting type of lobby or the full clear type of lobby before they launch the pods.
Good to know! I've been trying to puzzle that out for weeks. There's so much to learn about the game.
It can be used tactically. If a breach just got called elsewhere you know you have a window in which another one will not be called at you location, so whatever you see around you is finite or based on existing holes that can be closed. It's why some groups run 2-2 just to split the breaches, and why simply 1 person acting as distraction while others do objectives can make runs very fast with a good squad.
I don't think there's any difference in the timer between breaches on different difficulties either. I think it simply alters the quantity of enemies.
I just play on the lower difficulties so I can just pretend I'm playing doom. I might try to play with how you're saying though. Getting all four of your teammates together is like herding cats usually.
Very true. Playing Solid Snake sneaky spy mode calls for different tactics, but i find it quite rewarding. Calling in an airstrike on a patrol and wiping them out before they can alert, or creeping up on an installation and bombarding it with massive amounts of airstrikes, styealing everything, then running away before the enemy can retaliate makes me feel like a bad ass commando.
And even when you do your best to stealth a mission, there's always points where you have to fight like hell!
I can certainly see that. When I have dabbled in games I'm likely to struggle with but enjoyed, most notably Apex Legends for a while, it's always my instinct to learn what I can and be a team player. I've never had a problem following other people's lead, playing support, that sort of thing. And I've nearly always enjoyed it without seeming to inspire any ire from my teammates (although admittedly I pretty much never use voice chat with randoms).
I did play HD1 actually, back when it first came out (early PS4 I think?) and immeadiately enjoyed it, although always struggled to get past my own issues with top-down twin-stick coordination. I have mild, but diagnosed, dyspraxia and tend to be better at games with a first-person/over the should POV so that's a big part of the appeal of the sequel for me. Perhaps eventually it'll come to other platforms or I'll finally shell out for a PC that can do modern gaming instead of just work and older stuff. I appriciate the recommendation though!