I saw this question at ask lemmy and the answers were'nt much satisfactory or serious for my taste . So what stops admins from doxxing its users ?
Like even if they have nothing else they could just leak IP is there any law against it ? Or any technical aspect stopping them ?
Ethically it'd be shitty and people don't want to be part of an instance with shitty admins so people would migrate away. Technically, nothing unless you're using a VPN. Welcome to the internet, the same is true for every website
Also there's the aspect of just... not caring. As someone who technically could read the email, browse the files, or track the apps installed and used on the phone of nearly any person where I work, any small bit of idle curiousity died before I was done my first day.
Even if I was nosy, 99% of people are just not that fucking interesting. What would even be the point of abusing my access?
I've seen someone put it like this: male gynecologists don't get excited looking at lady bits at work.
I was able to do that for years. For me to give a shit what's in your email you have to be more interesting than the rest of the internet, which pretty much means you'd have to be doing something at least borderline illegal and have it brought to my attention by someone who noticed it over your shoulder.
Though, there's always some malicious doctors
Haven't some instances started blocking VPN traffic after the CSAM incident(s)?
An IP address by itself isn't going to let you dox users unless you have access to the databases that map these to the subscriber accounts. Typically, you would need to be an ISP or law enforcement to do this, but you can also purchase this information from a data broker if you know what you're doing.
With that said, there is absolutely nothing stopping the instance operator from getting your IP address. You're connecting to his or her computer which they own, so they can easily see where you're connecting from.
A notable way to protect against this is to use a VPN. Then the operator only knows you use a VPN.
Also need to be careful of what you write in comments (this is a public forum!). People sometimes write a surprising amount of detail about their life and it makes it much easier to narrow you down to a single individual the more you do it.
Eh, have faith in people
Even on Reddit, I was always 100% honest about living in Monetenagro as a Canadian Mexican immigrant. Sure life is busy as CEO of Disney but I always make time to attend a Lakers game with Leonardo DiCaprio when I'm visiting Panama.
But to comb thru a large account would take a bot to look for keywords and frequency mentioned.
So if you're concerned about it, a less honest person could just randomly make outrageous but specific claims. Even when in the same comments and obviously contradictory, it would throw it off as long as you're not constantly disclosing identifying information
That's how I was able to become Batman and buy a house in Tokyo anyways
Serious answer: nothing except their own lack of access to anything except the ip address and whatever you give them.
But that's easy to counter with a VPN and a bit of common sense.
I run an instance. I promise, I have literally 0 care about who you are. I have much more productive things to do with my time.
Oh my... This whole thread is literally the best of 'Do you have something to hide?', 'Why should they use it?', 'What could happen?', 'That's paranoid' and so on.
Really disappointing.
Yeah the lemming hive mind
Technical measures are impossible in this particular case. However, I would say that the complete lack of benefits or incentives makes it very unlikely. Doing so could be illegal and collecting data which is otherwise useless is only a liability and a waste of resources. Basically the admin own self-interest I would say is what's stopping them. That said, if someone is individually afraid due to a bad relationship with an admin, then personal motives could void the above, in which case, they should change instance probably or use a VPN at least.
What info would an admin even have? Just my public ip and my email?
And your post history but so does everyone else and their cats.
You're connecting to their servers. They're going to get your IP. This is unavoidable.
They can even * [gasp] * read the messages and things you willingly post onto their servers.
I hereby revoke the right of my messages being read by lemmy.ml administrators under any circumstances.
I don't think that's enforceable, it would be like if there was a sign that said "do not read me" which some games have done as a joke.
I HAVE NO CONTRACT WITH YOU!
There's not much to prevent it from happening. They could lose standing in the community. They could be given legal trouble, and they could be attacked in return by people who knew which server owner was responsible. But that's pretty much it.
There's also a much lower bar for entry when it comes to running a server. All you need to "be" is technically competent. You don't need to be very good at security, and you don't need the temperament of a reasonable person.
And when that's the case, data might be leaked even indirectly.
Two Mastodon examples come to mind.
They have no business incentive for it, contrary to most other websites that are funded by targeted advertisement which basically means doxxing their users to advertisement companies.
Technically nothing but vibes
Don't let your guard down but at some point trust and risk consideration is required for most systems to work. If you're after solutions; you could run your own node in the cloud and federate it.
Was thinkin about it and read some docs which brought me to the conclusion that its too much work for me
The counter-question is : what do you win by doing this ?
Nobody cares about ips. This is mine: 193.81.127.151 . Try to find out anything about me exept my approximate location.
Now That's Dope http://193-81-127-151.adsl.highway.telekom.at
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Too bad I block autoplay, lol
Yes, there are laws against doxxing in several countries.
There is no technical aspect stopping it. Every website has your IP, sometimes also the people you chat with or write emails to, as this might (or might not) be part of the meta-information.
An IP address is a boring piece of information. Usually you can just infer the country and which internet service provider someone uses. You'd need to sue the ISP or get a court order to get the name and address of who's using that IP number.
Running these services is a lot of work and requires some skill, at least to do it sustainably. Usually it's certain people who are dedicated enough and willing to put in the effort... They are motivated to build something or help people. That's what drives them. It's somewhat unlikely but not impossible that they participate in malicious behaviour. Sometimes internet drama happens. But users aren't stupid either.
(But people who want to destroy and troll, rarely have the character traits to succeed at something like this. You'd pass on easier methods to wreak more havoc, to instead spend time learning webhosting, Linux, build up a community and maintain the server... You wouldn't do all of that unless it were worth it. I can only imagine that happening in a targeted attack that pays a good amount of money. Or a really good amount of internet fame because you doxxed a high-profile celebrity or something like that.)
So your whole argument is based of the kindness of admins ? I get that you are trying to see the good but still
The kindness of admins is a requirement of pretty much all internet infrastructure. Email servers are the same, no? And it gets even harder with proprietary networks -- if the admins are being unkind, you can just switch discord servers or whatever. Anyway, I digress.
What's your question? I mean different types of services exist. You're currently on a platform powered by volunteers. If you don't like it, there is alternatives like Reddit which is a commercial / for-profit company.
We have projects like Lemmy, Linux and the whole Free Software which somewhat relies on kindness and giving. It's the same for charity, your schools extracurricular club where parents and teachers volunteer their time and energy. Or bring cake to a special day.
And with the "trust": I think it's more nuanced. You also rely on other peoples kindness to stop at the red light at a traffic junction and not crash into you at full speed. Theoretically nothing is stopping them. It's the same concept, you're forced to cooperate sometimes and rely on other people to abide by the law and also cooperate. It regularly works fine. Just make a good choice whom you trust and why.
You don't need to worry about your IP. It's really not a big deal if people know it... I'd have a look at who's running a service once I upload private documents with my finances etc, photos of me... More than random ramblings. And experience shows also the services that don't rely on volunteering aren't a safe bet. Most of the big companies and platforms have been hacked. https://haveibeenpwned.com/ lists my email AND password has been lost at least 3 times by the big players.
And regarding you specifically... I already know enough about you by reading your public posts. You're probably from the USA. At least I didn't find comments in other languages, and statistics tell me people here are either american or german. You use Android, know what FOSS is, seem to like it and play things like Supertuxkart. You like to waste some of your time in meme communities and casual conversation and just created this account yesterday. And you talk a certain way which makes me think this isn't your first time on the internet. What else am I supposed to deduct by knowing your IP?
You're right asking the question "should I trust you with my data". That is why I don't use Facebook, Microsoft, bonus cards, TEMU...
Their comment started with mentioning laws. That's more than betting on only kindness.
Nobody cares about your IP. Admins can see it, they can see mine, they don’t care.
If you want to be paranoid use mullvad and call it a day.
Nothing stops them.
Don’t worry too hard about the ip though, there’s plenty of servers still running versions with insecure pms and that seems like a much bigger problem than ip addresses.
What are you concerned about? maybe I can help you figure out a way to mitigate it.
Nothing much just ip leak . And i don't say anything on pm that i won't say in public.
Well, ip leak would be useful for me if I were trying to figure out your general location, the specific edge device that you’re behind or if I were compiling a massive dataset to find a vulnerability.
In the first case, don’t worry about it. Ip addresses are allocated to the provider and dynamically assigned such that without a huge corroborating dataset or at least a couple of recent delivery records cross referenced to an online order someone can’t reasonably figure out your home address from it.
The second thing is inherent to the design of the internet, but the danger of someone knowing the ip of the edge device you’re sitting behind can be mitigated by securing that device. The easy stuff would be like turning off web console or snmp on wan, picking a good password, making sure its firmware is updated etc. if you’re forwarding ports or self hosting it gets more complex but that’s how you can make it “okay” that anyone could know your ip.
The third thing is complex and at this point requires a fundamental change in the way you view computer&web usage, communication and most likely a subscription to some scrubbing service. Sorry, we live in the bad timeline.
All three can be either mitigated or assisted by the use of a vpn. You have to pay for a vpn, the free options are monetized by bundling and selling the data that goes through them.
If there’s something I missed or whatever, lmk.
Here's my IP
42.74.98.48
Here's my device information.
Device: husky
Model: Google Pixel 8 Pro
Android: 14
But are you on wifi or mobile data, gotta know before doing absolutely nothing with that information
Pfft if you're a pro hacker you would already know where I live and my mother's maiden name.
You are lying aren't you ?
You cant do anything with the IP. Even the cops would contact the ISP to get more information
Maliciously Leaking IP is doxxing, doxxing is illegal.
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That said, law enforcement can just request for the IP/Logs and they'll likely hand them over.
Use TorBrowser is that's a concern.
I do for most things but not lemmy i just like jerboa
Oh, it's an android app? Then your IP is pretty much worthless if I'm not mistaken. You should get a new IP every time you make a new connection. Just test it. Go to https://whatismyipaddress.com/ , turn off your data, turn it back on, reload the webpage. Mine gives me a new IP every time I turn off cell data.
Also, there's a TOR android app.
Because its a waste of there time? What's stopping anyone from doxxing you?
Always use a VPN. Its mandatory