Pope criticised for saying Ukraine should ‘raise white flag’ and end war with Russia
Francis’s failure to condemn Moscow as aggressor decried as ‘shameful’ and ‘incomprehensible’
Why not call for a full Russian withdrawl instead? Why should the defenders of their homeland be the ones to surrender?
The fact that a former Superpower was not able to roll Ukraine in the first 10 days, 100 days, what is it now? 745 days... yeah. It's time for Russia to get out.
I think that's not how war works.
Usually, the winning side doesn't leave when they're winning.
It's up to the losing side to surrender.
Things would be different if Ukraine had a chance at winning, but that's not likely to happen.
Edit: I just want you all to think about how you feel now and compare it to when Ukraine loses. Do you remember when Ukraine's counteroffensive was starting? How confident you were that they could win?
This is what I mean by you people being victims of propaganda without even realizing. Average just keeps getting lower as time goes on.
we going by numbers? because there are A LOT of dead russians littering the fields in Ukraine.
Can you please close Putin's cock-sheath?
Everyone expected Ukraine to be steamrolled virtually instantly.
Instead they have held on for 745 days, killed innumerable Russians and destroyed god knows how many tanks, planes, and ships.
You can never under-estimate the will of people fighting for their home country.
How do you figure ukraine won't win?
You my friend have been propagandised yourself ukraine without funding will lose. Ukraine with funding will win. Russia is doing eveeything in its power to stop funding. The narative that ukraine has already won/lost is russian propaganda to stop funding.
Grow up learn how a friggin war works and stop being a shill for russian propaganda.
You need to see a doctor to get your humanity checked. It seems not to be working.
Russia isn't winning. Ukraine isn't losing.
Right now, it's a stalemate. The longer it goes on, the more likely Ukraine will lose. Russia has more people, and Ukraine can't strike deep into Russia.
What surprised me was that Russia seemed to have solved its ammunition problem. It would appear Russia is out-producing the West in artillery rounds.
I am pro-Ukrainian, but I don't want Americans on the ground in Ukraine. They must fight their own battle, but I support sending weapons. I wish we had some more weapons earlier before the Russians could entrench like they did. That is why the counter-offensive failed.
Russia will lose if its people get tired of this war. At some point, mothers will not want to send their children to die in a war they didn't want. People like to paint Russians as monsters, but most Russian people are decent people. Their government has fed them lies, and they thought they were the good guys. Most of the kids fighting over there think they are removing Nazis. Most of them are drafted and most likely don't even want to be there.
One thing that drives me nuts is how people think everything is so black and white. The world is very grey. Good kids on both sides are dying because Putin wants Ukraine.
If you have never read or watched All is Quiet on the Western Front, I think it accurately describes what is happening.
Do you remember when Ukraine’s counteroffensive was starting? How confident you were that they could win?
Not particularly high. This was stated in Feb 2023, before the counteroffensive started:
Russia will struggle to adapt to the increased capability Western tanks will bring to Ukraine. But the tanks currently on offer—thirty-one US Abrams, fourteen UK Challengers, and fourteen German Leopards—will not turn the tide of the war. There are reports that France, Poland, and Canada will also provide tanks to Ukraine, although how many and when is unknown. For Western assistance to enable a Ukrainian military victory, four things must happen. First, Western countries would need to provide enough tanks to give Ukraine a devastating offensive punch. Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky has put this number at 300–500 tanks, far more than the fifty-eight currently on offer. Tanks are most effective when formed into battalions (thirty to forty tanks as Ukraine structures them) and brigades (ninety to 120 tanks). Zelensky’s number, which he certainly got from his military commanders, seems designed to allow Ukraine to form four new brigades of Western tanks, each composed of three battalions. Used properly, four new tank brigades would represent a ground offensive capability that could be decisive.
They never got the tanks in the numbers laid out above. Not even close. This was all predicted ahead of time.
Ukraine won't lose outright at this point. Russia is not capable of mounting a large offensive anymore. There is no chance they get fully absorbed into Russia. However, there are ranges of winning and losing that are on the table; without more support, they're not going to be able to retake land to the east and south, nor retake Crimea.
Oh brother. 🙄
Pope is really out of touch on this.
That’s the polite way of putting it.
Pretty sure anyone with half a brain and not straight up owned by Putin realizes that surrender is not an option- it just lets them regroup for another push in 5-10 years.
So. The pope either has the intellectual capacity of a petrified vegetable or is now shilling for Putin.
On everything. He's an antiquated old bigot who was an idiot long before he was made the head of the church PR phase. All his platitudes and nice talking points are all manufactured
Idiot... and total asshole, also. Someone posted the Wikipedia link and I read up. Yuck.
With modern society, yeah.
But no one hates every other Abrhamic religion more than the leader of one them.
And Islam is the biggest one. Judaism isn't a threat to replace any form of Christianity, they don't have the numbers.
But there's about the same amount of Christians and Muslims in the world. For about 1300 years Christian leaders have been trying to stop Islam from becoming the majority.
That's the most important thing in Abrhamic religions: doing what it takes to be the majority.
The Bible even says if a family member ever doubts Jesus, you're to kill them immediately to prevent them from convincing others.
Which is a throw back to a schizophrenic guy named Abraham killing his family because they doubted the voices Abraham heard in his head.
All this shit traces back to some random crazy guy that demanded his family do exactly what he says without question. It's like the one part that never changes
The Bible even says if a family member ever doubts Jesus, you're to kill them immediately to prevent them from convincing others.
Which is a throw back to a schizophrenic guy named Abraham killing his family because they doubted the voices Abraham heard in his head.
I'm gonna request citations on these two.
But no one hates every other Abrhamic religion more than the leader of one them.
Wow. I'm an atheist and even I know that religious leaders tend to be extremely respectful of other faiths. They respect the holding of faith, even if it's not the one that they personally hold. They've spent their lives studying their religion and often find the history and relationships between different faiths fascinating.
Personally I think they're just studying myths, and it's no more productive than somebody studying Milton.
Dear Pope: Direct your fucking comments to the guy who is invading Ukraine. Thanks.
Is Russia losing?
So, how do Putin's balls taste? Never mind, I don't actually want to know...
They sure aren't winning in 3 days like they said they would 🥴
Pope Francis really all over the board with political beliefs, the dude went from liberal ally gay marriage officiator to conservative facebooker in record time.
So fucking naive. Dude really thinks the Ruskis will stop committing atrocities when the Ukrainians surrender.
A surrender would be invitation for the atrocities to truly begin.
Knowing what the Russian government truly are, the best outcome for Ukrainians in that case is a cultural genocide, with Ukrainian being banned and they'll be forced to learn Russian. This is already the case of territories currently or formerly under occupation.
Let's not forget the last time Ukraine surrendered to Russia, they had 10% of their population genocided in return.
That fucktard believes the earth is 5000 years old.
That's a Protestant thing, not a Catholic thing.
I kick in your front door and kill two of your kids. I then plant mines at the entrances to your living room and kitchen, eat all the food from the refrigerator and shoot at you if you try to come downstairs. You need to end this aggression, it's unseemly and it's getting people hurt. Just cede the living room and the kitchen, you wouldn't want to escalate things. Also I can't help but notice that your basement and upstairs bathroom are looking pretty liberateable.
That's what Israel is demanding from Palestinians since one century
Tell you what popeman, how about you get rid of all the kid rapists in your organization before you give anyone else advice on anything... Ever.
And the hat. The hat's gotta go.
“Leader of a child sex abuse cult says stupid shit.”
had used the term white flag “to indicate a cessation of hostilities, a truce reached with the courage of negotiation”. He repeated the pontiff’s call for a “diplomatic solution in search of a just and lasting peace”
That's kinda hard when Russia bombs humanitary corridors, ceasefire equals rearm and regroup and nothing else, and the last diplomatic solution was used as toilet paper to start the current war.
Russian state TV host Vladimir Solovyov berated Pope Francis for "sticking his nose where it does not belong" and suggesting negotiations. Solovyov said that Russia has no interest in negotiations and does not recognize the Pope as a spiritual leader....so I guess the pope should wave the white flag...
In the meantime, his family is enjoying views from their villa at Como Lake
When the Pope allows all sexual abusers in the Faith be prosecuted and held accountable for their disgusting and morally evil crimes then maybe I'll give a fuck what he has to say about anything. Out of touch old man doesn't get to protect kiddy fiddlers and then try and preach to others.
Leader of single largest pedophile ring in history thinks X.
This Is how they should report on this piece of shit every time he opens up his cocksucker.
Fuck the pope. Glad that I already exited the Catholic Church a few years ago...
Exited? Or were you just a youngin at the time?
Most little boys seen to excite the Catholic Church
woops...of course I meant that I exited the church. Here in germany we have to pay something called "church tax" unless you formerly adress that you exit the church. You have to fill out a form, have to go to the town hall, have a little talk with some guy about it and then you are finally good to go.
I too was an altar boy, exciting the Catholic Church
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
https://piped.video/JkOHDoEkPW0
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I'm open-source; check me out at GitHub.
Isn’t religion suffering from people leaving and no new blood entering for growth? Maybe the Catholic Church can wave the white flag?
Latin America and Sub Sahara Africa and Southeast Asia have seen big upticks in Catholic conversion and Catholic family growth, while in the US and Europe they've been flat or shrinking.
I'm sure it isn't a coincidence that these countries are opposed to the conflict, as continued war in the Ukraine has denied them access to the agricultural production of the region (during a climate-change induced famine, no less). The war itself isn't exactly doing favors to climate metrics, either.
Add in that the primary advocates of the war (the US, the UK, and Germany) have an absolute shit reputation in these regions (West Germany famously continued to send arms to Apartheid South Africa well into the 1980s, the US has completely fucked its relationship with Pakistan in the latest rigged election against a wildly popular prime minister Imran Khan, the UK keeps trying to send all its Ukraine refugees to Rwanda), they aren't overly sympathetic to the Western-backed side in the conflict.
So now enter the Pope, a guy who is forever "anti-war" in the most basic sense of the word and will advocate for a ceasefire in virtually every conflict. Image how much of his constituency is howling at the absolute waste and destruction, partially at their expense, that's driving up food and energy prices globally when they can least afford it.
Is it any surprise he just wants this shit to end already?
What an arsehole .
Fuck the pope, I mean, pedophile pimp.
Maybe his ring would get a lot of Ukrainian kids human trafficked to them in case of a Russian victory.
"Could you please stop defending yourself. And let it happen." - Some guy who likes to cover up child abuse
The Ukrainians should capitulate like the Franks at Poitiers or the Venetians at the Battle of Lepanto, or the Austrians at the Battle of Vienna. Perhaps if the Ukranians were Catholic, the Pope might support their resistance more.
Fuck that pope.
First scaremongering people about "gender ideology", and now shilling for Russia. Is Pope doing some sort of mask off?
Let's just take that white flag, add a blue stripe in the middle, and give it to the Russians to raise.
Oh wait, they would go to jail. Well let's help them make the upcoming elections actually fair for once.
Oh wait, that would be the 2020 Belarusian protests all over again. Well let's just simply wait until we get a new Pope. Surely it can't take too long.
Son of a bitch is getting cocky after taking over the US Supreme Court
So brave
Pax vobiscum.
I would have expected Patriarch Kirill to say something like this. But the Pope? Not so much.
Why? The Pope is a PR figurehead and an his words are manufactured by a PR department. If you ever fell for his good guy act, I feel bad for you
There is the historical precedent of the pope supporting the nazis. So this par for course for the Catholic church.
Pope doesn't like Ukrainian autocephaly any more than Kirill.
I mean I don't agree with him but he is sticking to his beliefs here. Something something turn the other cheek.
Pope doesn't recognize the Autocephaly of the Ukrainian church as much as the Moscow Patriarch doesn't. There isn't a great amount of support coming from the Eastern Rite Catholic Churches in Ukraine.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
Pope Francis has been criticised after saying Ukraine should have the courage of the “white flag” and negotiate an end to the war with Russia.
Some politicians and commentators in Europe reacted with anger after the pontiff appeared to stay silent on Russia’s crimes as aggressor in the invasion, which has killed tens of thousands, and placed the onus on Ukraine to make peace.
Dennis Radtke, a German Christian Democrat MEP, said the word “shameful” could be used to describe the pope’s comments.
In an interview broadcast on Saturday by Swiss television, but which the Vatican said was conducted in February, the pontiff urged parties in the Ukraine war to “have the courage to negotiate”, and do so “before things get worse”.
The Vatican’s director of communications, Matteo Bruni, issued a statement seeking to clarify the pope’s words.
He said Francis had used the term white flag “to indicate a cessation of hostilities, a truce reached with the courage of negotiation”.
The original article contains 451 words, the summary contains 161 words. Saved 64%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!
If Putin could he would sack Vatican and abolish catholic church.
Big words for a guy who works for a chair.
I don't like it, but this might be the most actual Christian approach. Jesus preached a lot of pacifism...
But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also.
Jesus the pacifist everybody:
Hosea 13:16 - Samaria shall become desolate; for she hath rebelled against her God: they shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up.
Deuteronomy 2:34 - And we took all his cities at that time, and utterly destroyed the men, and the women, and the little ones, of every city, we left none to remain:
Deuteronomy 20:16-17 - But of the cities of these people, which the LORD thy God doth give thee for an inheritance, thou shalt save alive nothing that breatheth
Isaiah 14:21 - Prepare slaughter for his children for the iniquity of their fathers; that they do not rise, nor possess the land, nor fill the face of the world with cities.
I'm not trying to say Jesus was a pacifist, but all of those quotes are Old Testament, written centuries before Jesus supposedly existed...
I never said the Bible was consistent... It is actually one of the things I find fascinating about the whole thing. How does turn the other cheek square with old testament violence?
I know the easy answer, that it is all just made up, but even so these passages are two thousand years or so old and have been a major part of societies and cultures, which included many great thinkers and theologens more knowledgeable than me or any random person online.
Even if this is all a two thousand year old, self perpetuating delusion, that itself would be fascinating...
People don’t understand how truly humbling that is.
People use different hands to slap different sides of the face, which meant getting smacked with someone’s left hand.
The one they used to wipe themselves
That would honestly be the smart thing to do if they want to stop losing lives.
Nobody expects Ukraine to win except useful idiots on these forums. Every military strategist has said Ukraine is a good investment for the West. They mean it's better for Ukrainians to die fighting Russia than it is for NATO soldiers.
And they're right. The only sad part are those who are duped into believing they have a chance at winning and end up losing their lives in the process.