Linux @lemmy.ml Anonymous_TorPerson @lemmy.ml 8 mo. ago

Can you tell excel sheets which were created using a pirated version of MS Office?

My friend works for a company which requires her to use Microsoft specific application, she didn't really want to switch to Win 11 and choose to just use Wine Linux package and install a 2016 version of MS office on her Linux laptop. That's all well and good, but this company she is working for servers other clients at pretty high up places and she is terrified that she using the pirated version of MS would create a liability for her company as if Microsoft wants to target pirated software, they hunt for organisations rather than individuals.

So, what should she do? Is there a way you can hide the fact that the excel sheet was created on pirated software, is it even possible to tell excel sheets apart which are using pirated software?

PS: If there is a way to destroy all metadata related to the excel sheets, it would be very helpful.

edit: Thanks to everyone who chipped in for an answer, gonna suggest her to either ask her employer to give her the necessary software + hardware and if denied quit. I now realize this is not the norm in any company but hers. Anyways, thanks everyone.

63 comments

My friend works for a company which requires her to use Microsoft specific application

So the company needs to provide said friend with all the needed software.
- ... and hardware.
  
  Absolutely!
  
  I don't know for other countries but here in Germany the employer - by law - has to provide the employee with everything the employee needs to do the job he's hired for.
  
  I boldly assume this is the case in most countries.
- *in the US, if they are w2. If contractor, they must provide the tools themselves.
So, what should she do?

She should ask her company to provide the neccessary tools to do the work.
PS: If there is a way to destroy all metadata related to excel sheets, it would be very helpful.

No, it would look like she is hiding something far worse.

It is an insane suggestion to even concider, it is far, far worse to have zero metadata than to have a bit of odd metadata.

If the sheets are tagged as being crested by a pirated version of excel then she could feign ignorance and pretend she has zero idea of what is going on, if the meta data is gone, she would be known as someone with something to hide.

Also, why the fuck is she editing company documents on her personal computer?

That is by far the main problem.
she didn’t really want to switch to Win 11

On which computer? Her own?

Does not the company provide a PC with the tools needed? If yes, she has no right to decide what goes on it, the company does and she should respect that, doing what you want on a company PC can get you in serious trouble, way more serious than finding out you're using a pirated version of Office.

If the company expects her to use her own PC, they should at least provide the needed software licenses, Office365 can be used on the web, no need to install anything and it can be used on Linux no problem.

BUT the serious problem remains of having company data on her own PC, the best thing to do in such a case would be creating a VM, encrypting the file system and keeping all company data contained inside the VM.

Tho in such a case I would change company, no serious company today would expect employees to keep company data freely on whatever personal PC, that could lead to data breaches, I would never want to be involved in case like that, tho I live in EU, we have very strict laws about data integrity and privacy, dunno about other countries.
- I’m in the EU as well and am working for a company in the USA. They make us use our own computers for work - which includes installing time tracking software.
  
  I am actively trying to get out of the company and do not recommend working for a company that makes you use your own device. Since they are only registered in the USA, I have no legal protection from the EU and my country of residence.
  
  Sorry for the tangent, I just think it’s important for others to see as well.
  
  Fuck. That. Company.
  
  Holy shit dude.
  
  That device monitoring software can go to hell.
  
  You said you are 'in the EU', as in currently living in the US for said job?
  
  Are you considered an independent contractor? Or an actual employee of the company?
  
  As a US citizen... I would just advise EU citizens to 'in general' avoid working for US companies, we have bad employment policies, and our companies think they can just do the same things in other countries. Obviously everyone should choose for themselves; if you think the extra income is worth it, that is your call, but our work culture is awful.
  
  At the very least, if you do decide to work for a US company... keep it remote. Cost of living in the US is really high, work culture is awful, it's dangerous, and healthcare costs are crazy. Unless your household is making at least $150k USD/year, you'll be considered poor to middle-class.
  
  Is that even legal?
Maybe ask the company if they can get you an O365-Account, so you can just use the web version of it or install that as webapp.

Sorry to say, but employees cost so much money in salary, those few bucks for software licenses are just minor.
- And even if they won't, she can get a license herself and use that. It solves everything in one go
  
  Never pay for software for your job unless you're self employed. That's the employers responsibility.
Why isn't the company providing its employees with the required tools to do the work?
She should abide by the company rules, use company provided software and follow company policies if she likes working there.

Otherwise she should move. Bypassing the rules is very unprofessional and can get you in trouble.
- Also, why would you want company data on your personal device?
  
  Recipe for disaster
  
  In both directions...my employer would have a heart attack if I was doing work on my own machine like that (well, outside of a virtual desktop).
  
  Maybe (hopefully) the data isn't all that sensive
Are they not providing the hardware and software for this? If so she should just use what they provide for work.
Can they find out?

No, not really. The Metadata doesn't have a "pirated" flag and something like the product key doesn't get saved. Microsoft themselves probably know due to their telemetry but even they can't be bothered about it. I would bet that even you send a pirated document to the Microsoft CEO, they wouldn't notice or even care enough to look for it.

But as always there is the important rule of "don't fuck with work stuff, ever".

It's already questionable why she is editing company documents on here private PC without either a dedicated and remotely managed work particition + VPN or an O365 online work account. These documents fall under far stricter data safety regulations and the way it is right now, she is personally liable for any data leaks.
Fun fact: MS was onced caught using pirated audio software to create an audio file for (I think) Windows XP
A company should not be pirating software under and circumstances
I’m going to assume that by the way you’re describing it, using an excel alternative is totally out of the question or simply not possible, but just in case it isn’t…

If you haven’t heard of it, check out LibreOffice.
- I don't think this is what she had in mind when she was thinking about changing metadata to look more legit.
  
  Yep, hence the preface. Just offering up an alternative to using software they’re concerned about in case they don’t know they have the option. 🙂
Why isn't the company paying for it? Anyways, you could just export it to a different format and then back to Excel depending on which features you're using. But also, I think this is being paranoid. Microsoft isn't the NSA
Aside from the obvious (company providing all the necessary tools) why not using libreoffice and saving it as M$ excel?
If Office 365 online has enough features for her, maybe just do that. It works just fine on Linux. The web versions are not that feature rich but honestly they have more features than most people use.

Another option is running a Windows VM on Linux with the latest office installed. You probably do not need much RAM.
O365 web
- lacks advanced features (tried it)
I think she should use company provided software and hardware for company related work.

Pirating stuff when your employer offers you supported way to work is just.. beyond stupid.
She has the option of using the online versions of Excel and Word if the company uses office 365.
- Excel online is pretty bad if you compare it in terms of features.
  
  We use it daily at our MSP, even for data cleanup and database work. It got a massive improvement about a year ago.
  
  There is very little need to use excel.
I don't think so, unless the pirate left a calling card. If you want to make sure, just make the same sheet in pirated and non pirated versions, and compare the file. (They are zip archives, so that will let you see the raw XML)
- Software cracks leaving a calling card isn't unheard of. Companies before have been caught out before with names of cracking groups showing up in their files.
  
  Edit: found the article I was thinking of. Turns out it was Microsoft themselves!
  
  http://www.techpavan.com/2009/05/24/microsoft-deepz0ne-pirated-cracked-sound-forge-windows-xp-audio/
There have been many cases where they found out it was made by a pirated version of MS office. Just google it. Sometimes the pirates add some metadata, like the author for example. If she wants to live at peace and not put the business at risk, she should do the right thing and get a licensed copy, whoever pays for it.

If the latest version doesn't work on Windows then get a key for an older version, or sub for the web version.

But under no circumstance use pirated software at a serious business.
To answer your first question : no, there's absolutely no wat to determine if a version of Office is cracked or not by looking at the files made with said version. Tho Microsoft can see if a cracked version sends telemetry but they don't care about it. You can use it freely. And honestly, LibreOffice is 1 to 1 compatible, you just have to install Microsoft's proprietary fonts.
- Idk about Excel/Calc, but LibreOffice Writer is definitely not 1 to 1 compatible with Word, not even close.
  
  It's rather the other way around, Word is not 1 to 1 compatible with LibreOffice Writer when it comes to document editing. Writer is far better on that aspect.
  
  OnlyOffice is more compatible IMO
- I love FOSS but LibreCalc sucks! Word is good, I did a project with it, I am pretty sure you can get the hang of it. Not sure about anything else tho
  
  Yeah I must admit that once you have used Excel, it's hard to use anything else... But Writer is honestly less finnicky to use than Word imo.
Its actually the first time I hear of this and I work in IT. Still possible it flew over my head but I never imagined this to be the case. Pretty sure a million more people would be in jail if that were the case.
- Microsoft (via third parties) absolutely do audits of companies as part of licencing conditions, but the result of noncompliance is not jail, it's a bill.
  
  We are talking about two wildly different things.
  
  Indicators of pirated software in metadata of documents (which would probably make ms office immediately be outlawed by the EU bc of privacy violations) on my end.
  
  The general licensing situation of ms and their customers on yours.
  
  I know they make audits. I dont think you can get in trouble for using pirated ms software to work on documents though.
  
  Still, the question remains why OP is working on company stuff on their private device. Sounds very much like they might be inexperienced and easily taken advantage of or just overeager, which isnt healthy either.
No.
Can she not use the cloud version? Surely her company provides an account for that, if not it definitely has a free version.
In the interim, as I know jobs are kinda hard to give up at a moment's notice, OnlyOffice ~~OpenOffice~~ has good compatibility with Microsoft file formats, as does Microsoft's online suite of applications.
- Do you mean OnlyOffice? OpenOffice is the old thing that LibreOffice is a fork of.
  
  Yup, OnlyOffice! Oops.
Perfect work for MAS.
One other possible option, if she feels stuck: Import it into Google Sheets and the export it into the Excel format. Sheets will just do its thing and replace all metadata with its own.
Why not use Microsoft shit in a windows VM? Seems more secure and the company should offer a key to use the product
Using your own device is good and comfortable. I always hated companies that wants to force windows laptop or macbook on me. I suggest compell them for their tech choice or consider leaving that company and searching for a better one that supports libre software. I know it's hard but there are some areas like web development, which usually lets you use linux.
Can she use Google sheet? You can download the sheet as Excel file.
- No, stop, it is bad enough that she is editing company data on her personal machine, and now you want her to distribute company data to third party companies?
- Can she use Google sheet? You can download the sheet as Excel file.
  
  actually the whole purpose of using excel is because of the advanced features. Doubt if you will find it on web version of Gsheets.

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