Wisconsin judge sides with 11-year-old trans girl over her right to use school toilets
Wisconsin judge sides with 11-year-old trans girl over her right to use school toilets
A Wisconsin judge has sided with an 11-year-old trans girl in a legal dispute over her right to use the correct school toilet.
A district judge in Wisconsin has sided with an 11-year-old trans girl over her use of the girls’ toilets and temporarily blocked school officials from preventing her access.
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Ah, got it. You don't seem to be parsing between sex and gender here, which is probably why this is going to be a troublesome topic every time it comes up.
I mean you extrapolate from "biological men" into "any man" way too casually to have a serious opinion on this topic.
I mean, jist wait to you hear about this thing called homosexuality. No bathroom will be safe anywhere from anyone if people know about that!
Public toilets are sex based, not gender. They are male and female. They have existed since long before gender "wasn't a binary".
A biological female that identifies as a man can't use the urinals, can they? No, because they don't have a penis. Toilets have always been made to accommodate the different sexes, not genders.
It is the presence or lack of a urinal that makes a bathroom a safe space or not? Regardless of that tangent, toilets are not sex specific. (And before indoor plumbing becoming commonplace, outhouses and pit privies weren't exactly sex based either.)
But at least you've honed in and have gotten down to it: you find toilets to be inherently sexual. I find that to be pretty weird. While I won't kink shame you, I don't think it's a good foundation for how handle human waste in public.
(Stalls cam be made more private way more easily than public bathrooms be policed for genitalia conformance.)
It is the presence or lack of a urinal that makes a bathroom a safe space or not?
You're just being disingenuous now. You know that was not said in relation to anything being a "safe space". You know it was said to show that toilets are sex based and not gender based, because gender apparently now has nothing whatsoever to do with your genitals.
Regardless of that tangent, toilets are not sex specific
"If I ignore your very real and very good point, I can disagree" lol. Male toilets have always had toilets designed for biological male bodies, ie a "penis owner". That proves that they aren't "gender based", otherwise why would only 1 of the 2 of them have a urinal?
But at least you’ve honed in and have gotten down to it: you find toilets to be inherently sexual.
I see there is no limit to your disingenuity. You're the one arguing to try and let biological males go to the toilet with biological girls.
You're forgetting the trough system in stadiums on top of ignoring the recurring point I've been making: bathrooms aren't inherently sexual. The injection of sexual acts and sexual crimes by accepting the jdea of trans people using the appropriate bathroom is the original disingenuous stance, so I'm sorry if you're taken aback. I don't meant to upset you if my fatigue at the "trans equals and enables peeping pervs" perspective. And come on now: A transwoman in a women's bathroom isn't using a urinal. A transman in a man's bathroom is also not using a urinal. There shouldn't be a problem there, but somehow having to know the genitalia of people shitting is less weird than letting
You’re forgetting the trough system in stadiums
I mean this is the first you've mentioned stadiums, so there's that. I've never heard of urinals being in a female bathroom at a stadium. What stadium has troughs in the female bathrooms?
recurring point I’ve been making: bathrooms aren’t inherently sexual.
No one is saying they are. Apparently this is really difficult for you. The overwhelmingly large percentage of sexual crimes are committed by men (like 99%) and opportunity is one of the biggest factors in it. By allowing men to just openly use womens "safe spaces" you're inviting opportunity for more sexual assaults to take place. This isn't rocket science.
If a pervert male wants to take photos of little girls on the toilet, do you agree that allowing him access to the female toilets presents him with more opportunity to do it? If not, explain your reasoning, because I can already say it doesn't make sense.
We're also not just talking about bathrooms. Changing rooms, sexual assault centres, gyms, doctors, etc - the same applies, and once you start making legislation that takes away womens protections to sex based safe spaces in one area, you take them away for all.
You're starting at the pervert male and are working backwards, which is kind of the problem here.
That pervert male is already just as capable and already doing the things you're fantasizing about, which has nothing to do with trans people using their correspondingly accurate bathroom. It's really the bathroom of least resistance they're seeking, and somehow sex crimes are being displaced onto them.
The hypothetical sexual pervert is not a credible argument here.
No, they’re not. Pervert men aren’t going in to women’s prisons and impregnating women. Pervert men aren’t going to rape crisis centres and assaulting women.
With allowing anyone into these spaces, you’re now giving them access and the ability to do that.
The bathroom of least resistance is and always will be the bathroom of their sex.
Urgh, the notion that allowing trans people into the bathroom means sex crime is the original disingenuous point. That's kind of what I was trying to show you. Besides, a transwoman in a woman's bathroom isn't using a urinal. A transman in a man's bathroom isn't using a urinal. There shouldn't be a problem with that, and yet there are people just need to know the genitalia of everyone in the stalls. Like genitals need to policed instead of just abiding by a general social rule of public spaces regardless of sex and gender: don't be sexual in public spaces. Indecency and shit are still very real things that don't change with trans people existing and taking dumps, believe it or not. Now I don't mean to upset you, so I am sorry if you are taken so aback at my fatigue of the "trans = perverts" perspective.
No one is saying trans people = perverts. Well I’m sure some are saying that, but I’m not.
What I’m saying is that by allowing anyone to enter female-only spaces you remove the safeguards that make them safe spaces sin the first place.
Are the trans people there to assault women? No. Does it open the door to perverts that do want to assault women to just openly use female-only spaces? Yes. That’s the issue.
It only opens the door for perverts if you are, in fact, saying trans people = perverts.
After all you're saying allowing a trans person to use their aligning bathroom is the same as allowing anyone to enter female-only spaces.
(So you kinda are saying that. It does appear you might be one of those some.)
Sigh. Read my last comment again and try again.
Even if there wasn’t a single pervert who is trans, allowing anyone to enter female safe spaces allows non trans perverts unrestricted access to these places.
Do you understand? To allow trans people in to the opposite sex safe spaces means allowing everyone to enter them.
It really doesn't. It only feels that way if you are incapable of differentiating between a sexual pervert and a trans person.
Society can accommodate gender neutral bathrooms (meaning you don't have this social construct of genital specific genital policed bathroom spaces) alongside gendered bathrooms where people presenting as either gender can go to the bathroom. Where there is no neutral option, the closer aligning gender specific bathroom is better than the genital specific bathroom.
Or you can have it your way with bathrooms where people's genital have to be declared, revealed, matched, or somehow verified to use them. That is the only way to achieve genital specific safe spaces that you're craving. Otherwise our society can go about accepting that people presenting as a gender to use their preferred bathroom regardless of their genital status.
So how do you want verify if someone is trans or not when they're using the bathroom? Keep in mind you've already demonstrated that you're incapable of differentiating between a sexual pervert and a trans person.
The sky is the limit here:
How do you want our society to verify genitalia before providing public bathroom access?
So you can look at a person and tell if they are a sexual pervert? Holy cow, so the fbi know about your amazing talent? That’s a game changer.
What you can pick is a biological male. Every time, without fail. No one needs to look at genitals.
You keep purposely disingenuously saying rubbish like “you’re saying all trans people are perverts”. What I’m saying is that you can’t tell who is a pervert, but you know that if they’re a biological male who is a pervert that you just gave them free and unrestricted access to girls bathrooms by sallowing trans identified people into female space because there’s no way to verify “gender identity” so anyone can simply say they are a girl if they want to access female only spaces.
This isn’t hard to understand, and your attempts to twist it only highlight how weak your argument is.
Sex separated spaces exist for a reason. They existed long before the current “gender identity” thing began.
If its a transwoman you may not being able to identify the biological male part: that genitalia.
That's the whole point of this issue with trans people using bathrooms: it's their ability to pass as the gender that is on trial.
You're just creating this hypothetical biologically male sexual pervert out of thin air and linking that to a transperson using the bathroom. It's dishonest because it's incorrect. Refuting that isn't disingenuous.
Trans people aren't perverts who just one day decided to say they were a specific gender. But you keep bringing up that perspective as an equivalent.
This whole dance I played with you for here was to see how self aware you are with your prejudice. So this is just going to get circular for as long as there is this fantastical interpretation that trans people using the bathroom is an inherent danger. You have failed to explain how or why, just that it is, ignoring the reality that everything you've described of your hypothetical pervert is already not allowed in law or society.
So, sit and spin awhile.