Homeowner baffled after washing machine uses 3.6GB of internet data a day
A home automation and tech enthusiast stumbled upon the anomaly while troubleshooting issues with his home network.
This particular homeowner is baffled that anyone would buy a washing machine that needs an internet connection. I'm all for smart appliances, but a smart washing machine is a solution in search of a problem.
I guess it can notify you via your cell phone when a load is done. I could see that having value.
I know so many people that will tell me that that is important to them. Those same people will hear the little jingle on their washing machine know that it's done, and then not go move the laundry around for 3 hours
An 1830's egg timer already resolved this problem, Future Boy...
It would be neat if it would then hang it to dry and when dry fold it and put it in the closet. It doesn't so it isn't. Its is just an old school jingle alert with extra (datatracking, most likely) steps.
Yeah.
Growing up, the washer and dryer were in the basement and you could really only hear that if you were in the living room with the TV off (so... never). But as an adult (who is finally living somewhere with its own washer/dryer...), I can hear that jingle throughout the entire house if I am not watching a loud movie at the time.
Growing up, we would more or less time it. Start a load and set the alarm on your watch for when it is done. But basically any modern washer/dryer is going to use fuzzy logic based on load weight and water levels and humidity and so forth. You can approximate how long it takes, but you don't really have a proper timer. Which was annoying when my friends' washer broke and they had to do loads at my place and it was always "Can you text us when it actually finishes?" or "So... I see you play Warframe. A lot... Uhm... It says there is five more minutes left"
So yeah. I can definitely see value in a networked washer or dryer depending on your living situation. And, while it would break IMMEDIATELY, I would love a washer and dryer with SMS push notifications for apartment complexes.
Also, while it is immensely wasteful (or a great way to get mildewy clothes), there is something to being able to start a dryer load when I pass the gas station about 20 minutes from home on a snowboard day. Because that would mean that I would have time to get home, take a really quick shower, and put on toasty warm clothes to compensate for having spent a few hours bouncing in the snow. And I would allow SO much spyware to enable that...
I’m all for smart appliances
I'm personally not. I'm for appliances with a standard interface, maybe, through which it can be connected to some smart home system.
I do not mean internet access or anything else "smart" in the appliance itself. I mean being able to use the same functions as buttons and indicators offer, remotely. I2C will do.
Forgotten laundry leads to mildew. Plenty of home assistance scripts out there to remind users to empty washer/dryer.
Makes sense for manufacturers to want to build this feature into the appliance itself.
I just start a timer on my phone?
I have one for both my dryer and my washer.
I load the washer then start the timer, when it goes off I just load it in the dryer then start the other timer.
It's super easy and it's no effort at all.
I had an old wind up kitchen timer with writing on it for a while but I missed it a few too many times so I switched to the phone timers.
You don’t need it to be on the appliance itself. Hook a power metering smart outlet and you can tell. Or a shake sensor. Or an open door sensor. Combine them all for a reliable effective way to tell if it’s done and the door has been opened, all for a much lower price than what those “smart” appliances charge the premium for. This way you can also choose vendors that work on local wifi/zigbee/z wave and don’t own a paper weight or part functional item the moment the vendor decides to shutdown the servers.
I love mine. It reminds me when to clean it, when the drain is acting up, and when it’s done. It can even order supplies on its own. Sure all those things can be handled with a calendar but I’m lazy.
The drain issue might be hard to figure out on your own. Mine has a little notification light that comes on to run a self-clean cycle every x number of washes, but I’m pretty sure I’m the only one in my house who actually runs it.
So it has a mechanism to let you know when the drain is clogged?
Seems like it would be better to spend that engineering on making the drain work better.
Weird.
I'm all for smart appliances, but a smart washing machine is a solution in search of a problem.
I personally love smart washers, they are a solution to the problem that we used to have at home.
We have 5 adults at home. The app lets us know if it's being used or not, and lets us know how much longer left.
Also let's us remind the other person to move their stuff in the washer to the dryer.
I personally do not want to walk over to our laundry room in the garage not connected to our house to check each time to see if it's available, then walk back to my room to grab my laundry, then bring it to the laundry room
I would prefer if everything was able to be used on a local network instead though. Like a Samsung machine that hosts a local server where data never leaves the home and still works.
You can also use it to start a load while you’re at work when you didn’t want your clothes sitting after washing all day. True, there’s old school delay functions but this gives a little more control.
Not saying it’s worth it, but a feature I haven’t seen anyone else mention.
For me it isn't about knowing when it's done, it's about it continuously annoying me if I still haven't flipped it an hour later
Electricity is pretty expensive where I live, but solar opportunity is fairly good. Selling power back to grid is nowhere near as cost effective as using solar directly.
So, I could see a compelling use case of, "I want my laundry done by X o'clock. Start the wash when it'll be mostly on my cheap solar."
But yeah. I would never buy one unless it supports local-only/VLAN-restricts-internet-access usage.
While I don’t have a smart washing machine, I use a smart power outlet to let me know when the laundry is done, remind me if the load is still sitting in the washer without moving to the drier, etc.
Definitely some legit use cases to make the process smart.
I set it up to alert my smart speakers when it's done so my family doesn't leave their laundry in the washer to mold and rot all day. That's about all I use the smart features for. And I do it through a 3rd party open source home automation solution.
There are situations where you might want to monitor water use (someone mentioned delaying cycles based on water softener status), or people like me who might need a phone reminder because I’ll forget I put a load in and get busy with something else and it’s nice if I don’t have the extra step of setting a timer and trying to get it just right.
The problem isn’t the connectivity, the problem is the proprietary cloud ecosystems. HomeAssistant is already a brilliant home automation hub, just make devices repairable and with local control and I’ll be a customer.
or people like me who might need a phone reminder because I’ll forget I put a load in and get busy with something else
This. As someone with ADHD, it's very helpful to get an extra alert when my washer/dryer is done.
I used to pull this off with a Zigbee Smart Outlet + HA, which is frankly an OK fix, but did not work for my electric dryer.
When it came time to replace my old appliances, I got a smart washer & dryer, said what the hell and put it on an isolated network. It's connected to HA via the cloud (not ideal but ¯\_(ツ)_/¯). It just works, and I wind up with mildewy neglected clothes less often.
It's not perfect, but I'm willing to deal with isolating 2 appliances to cover for my attention span.
When your current washer breaks to the point of being unrepairable, you will find the only choice is an Internet connected washer.
I bought the same model Bosch dishwasher that I bought last year ( I have 2 dishwashers). Bosch added Internet to their dishwashers this year. I was enraged but had no choice. They removed some wash features from buttons and made them selectable only from the app. I haven't turned the feature on but there's Wi-Fi in my dishwasher screaming to get out to the Internet. It could likely be hijacked with the right bot attack.
We need a law that all antennas come with a physical switch. Wifi, Cell, whatever comes next. They need a physical cut off switch just like privacy doors have become common on laptop cameras.
I simply will not buy a washing machine where some of the options for its regular use require an internet connection. I can see adding Bluetooth to it for things like remote control and phone notifications, or even WLAN support for connecting to some kind of smarthome hub that is internet-connected so you can get those notifications remotely. But the idea that smart == device-level internet connection is terrible. Appliances for basic living requirements, like laundry, should not require an internet connection of their own to function.
I doubt it is needed. Certainly hope not.
I just ordered a dryer that may have to go on top of my dishwasher which is on top of my washing machine - hard to explain why except to say there was no good place for the washing machine dishwasher in the kitchen.
If that happens, I'll be able to reach the clothes, but the control panel will be a bit of a stretch. In that case wifi control could be clutch.
Edit: my brain can never sort those two out.
Also I understand this is not the intended use case, I just think it's funny.
I am completely in agreement and would be even willing to pay more for dumb appliances if it comes right down to it.
I don't think any need an internet connection...
But some people connect everything they can for some reason.
Idk, in my particular situation I would like a smart washing machine. I have a smart fridge, that is essentially useless, but a smart washing machine would tell me when my laundry was done so I can switch it into the dryer. That actually seems useful in my particular situation.
This is an old article and iirc this was a reporting issue with their router. The wash machine was not using that much data.
Who's to say it isn't acting as a gateway for other smart devices that aren't connected to the Internet? Or part of a bot net?
This nonsense keeps getting reposted, when it was discovered previously it was a router reporting error
Why the fuck does my appliance need wifi? It's not ordering refills for consumables when low at a great discount nor is it going to schedule it's own maintenance as it passes lifetime milestones or detects errors.
I don't want my fucking washer/dryer to text me when the load is done and I definitely don't want my fridge to alert me I'm low on milk or bread, or the door is open. That's such a huge backdoor for anyone looking to maliciously gather data and peer into my life, definitely without my consent.
If, just for fucking once, they could use fully open source software to send that information directly to my mobile phone instead of using black box software to send all my info their corporate overlords, we might talk.
In principle these things aren't directly a bad idea. The fact that these asshats inserted themselves in the process is.
I mean this one's kind of pointless, but I do get what youre saying.
My fucking washer has NFC and I cant even figure out why I would ever need that, let alone WiFi?
Features for features sake, I guess? Another bullet point on the features list.
It's not very useful. But, I can start a program from an app which is a lot easier than understanding all the little logos on the unit. Plus I have more flexibility to tweak it, like be faster or gentler or schedule it to cheaper electricity hours all much more easily and intuitively than in the panel.
Also timer, remote start, and letting me know when it's done are something I might use once in a blue moon.
Can I live without it, hell yes, but is it a totally useless gimmick... Well 50/50.
I have my washer and dryer on an isolated network. It’s actually useful to be able to tell if they’re done without walking to the other end of the house to check.
Yeah, Im starting to think I need to set up a vlan for my iot devices, but its also a bit out of my league in terms of complicatedness.
Glad I bought a non-smart washer and dryer. I've yet to encounter any situation in life where I thought, "too bad my appliance doesn't have Internet". Not once ever.
I like my old dumpy dryer. Its a motor, a belt, and the most complicated component: a timer. Ive fixed the thing several times, still runs fine despite being 15+ years old.
I think my oven/stove can be connected. I have never tried because I don’t see the need to preheat my oven when I am not home.
Considering how security is often forgotten on smart devices, having an oven connected to the internet is pretty scary...
The only thing in my 6 year old washing machine that has been broken was the circuit board. Part mainly needed to cycle trough the menu because they put that instead of analog buttons. Meanwhile, I know people with certain German brand machines that are 30 years old and running perfectly for the entire 30 years, and if something would break it would 9 out of 10 be super obvious and mechanically easy to fix.
Sometimes smarter is definitely not better.
The big physical on/off button on my dryer broke 4 years ago. Bypassed it and has been running strong ever since.
Maybe unpopular opinion but I like connected stuff. I like what you can do with modern tech. I think it's cool to have a coffee maker or something hooked up to Home Assistant so you can start a brew from your phone when you wake up.
What I don't like is when I can't control the tech. The only way I'd ever allow smart appliances is if the data never left my network and I took reasonable steps to ensure the IOT devices are isolated and secured.
I don't own an IoT device, but I do like the idea. I just hate the idea of not being in complete control MUCH more. If I can't do it all locally, connecting to my own server, I don't want it.
When your washing machine tries to download Baldurs Gate 3 because it’s bored too
Botnet node? 3GB sounds excessive even for a company that's notoriously invasive.
As someone else already posted, the 3GB was incorrect, it was a router reporting incorrect traffic.
But that doesn't seem to stop everyone here from continuing to post how the thing that didn't happen in the first place is ridiculous...
I'm sure this got posted before and the most likely reason was that it was downloading some sort of update and failing to apply it repeatedly.
Data laundry.
I find the idea of "downloading new wash programs" to be absurd.
Main Menu:
How long have washing machines been a thing? You would think they would have them all figured out by now
Lost technology. Like curbs and televisions.
Now the Chinese government knows exactly how many socks have gone missing, but no it won't tell you where they all went.
They can't because even they have no clue where those socks went. The inter-dimensional portal is very well hidden.
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If you put any of these things on your wifi add them to your parental control settings that most routers have. Restrict what it can access and what times it allowed to connect to the internet.
Or ideally just don't put it on the wifi. I just set a timer for when it is done. Even those with variable cycles are fairly predictable and it isn't usually a big deal if your timer is 15min late.
True it is the better option, but putting it on a guest network and adding parental control lowjacks it pretty well. Set it schedule to when you need it.
I dunno, isn't the homeowner an idiot for putting a smart washer on WiFi in the first place? We don't need smart devices, they aren't making our lives better.
To the average person, putting that much thought and effort into it is for elite hackers only. I know a guy that does cybersecurity and still has smart everything in his house.
This is exactly it. So many normal people have no awareness or concern of the bad faith in so much of the corporate and tech world. They might have some negative impressions along the lines of “I was talking about X with my friend and the next ad on Facebook was X,” but even in those cases they don’t realize how deep it goes and that the companies don’t need to listen to your microphone.
You already have a phone in your hand just put an alarm on there. There are you eliminated the supposed use of internet on a washer.
Not saying, these issues are super important but there definitely are use cases for smart devices. However, I'd always recommend using a local / self-hosted rather than a cloud-based solution.
y'all are min-maxing life a bit hard there.
I just want a washer that can work with the water softener to determine if there's enough soft water for a load or if it should request the softener regenerate first. So the smart home I'd like to have is one where sometimes it will advise against doing laundry until I've acquired more salt. All without any data leaving my home network, and if I'm accessing it remotely, it's by accessing my home server without any other computer needing to be involved.
A buzzer on the washer/dryer has worked fine for DECADES.
my personal favorite is the part where the washer/dryer is noisy. And you can just hear it not running, and then remember to not forgor about it.
Solution in search of a problem.
I guess a mobile alert that lets you know the cycle is finished could be handy? Ability to schedule a load to start later? Maybe a maintenance or problem alert? Depleted detergent and fabric softener reservoir?
Possibly an energy usage chart for the nerds out there who like that kind of thing?
But damn, all of that shouldn't need more than a few kb a day max.
For most of these events an internet connection isn't necessary at all.
My machine shows the time that is needed for the program when I start it. I know when it will be finished right from the beginning. There's no surprise, no message necessary. If I tend to forget the time, then I can set a reminder in my smartphone.
I can program the machine while I load it to start the washing later. Why load the machine but then program it from a distance? Makes no sense.
Detergent is filled in before each washing cycle. There's nothing to be depleted.
A maintenance or problem alert would be the only thing that could be worth a message function. But: My machine works without problems for 15 years now. So: what should it be messaging me? We can really live better without these useless electronics that only push up the price and the distraction.
Yeah, I was reaching for really extreme cases. Maybe an IOT wash machine with a smooth app is easier to program than a machine with a control panel itself.
Who knows, the tech could hypothetically be useful.
Any why don't we have reservoirs with measured doses of detergent anyways? That would be kinda rad.
Seriously; wasnt there a chip shortage?
I always thought a simple analog speaker output could solve most of those. Let us string a wire to a remote speaker nearer to where we’re likely to be
If you think the useless appliances are bad, just take a look at more critical connected devices.
I needed some POE security cameras, found some foscam ones on the cheap. Plug them up, go to IP, "install our app"... was pleased to find it allowed a local account without the need for an email, but found that half of my network traffic was comprised of requests to their "ivyIOT AI detection". I didnt measure what data was going through before sectioning them behind a firewall zone.
My fault for not having looked further into other brands, they were still a bargain and work without issue with my setup, but annoying
Homeowner should be baffled at why he was
I have a supposedly smart washing machine that came with the apartment. Setting it up in my locked down appliances network, it didn't work with home-assistant, required cloud access and wanted me to open up ports in the firewall. Nope. No network connection for you. You are a regular dumb old washing machine.
I would imagine that someone might have compromised the washing machine and used it as part of a botnet to attack another system. I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that washing machine companies might not be the most-proactive at pushing security updates.
If it's got a full general purpose CPU and OS, yeah it can be vulnerable, but a lot of IoT stuff use microcontrollers that run one monolithic program. There's usually no other OS services or hidden exploits to use, I'm having trouble imagining how you'd break out of such a device once you've taken control of it, if you can at all. Can a smarter person correct me if I'm wrong, and explain how chips like the common ESP32 and ESP8266 are vulnerable to attack? Maybe through the RTOS and Wifi stack?
I'm an embedded hobbyist so I'd like to learn about securing my own devices.
Compromised iot devices sold as residential proxy is pretty hot right now: https://thehackernews.com/2024/03/themoon-botnet-resurfaces-exploiting.html?m=1
Those are targeting Linux routers and iot devices though. However, esp32 had vulnerabilities in the past such as the fatal fury attack, though it requires physical access to execute.
I just bought a new dishwasher and it came with "smart" features like remote start and notifications, which I don't want. Easy solution: I didn't connect it to my wifi.
On the positive side, the manufacturer (Bosch) wasn't pushy about it at all. The only indication that the machine has smart features was a small instruction card, which I promptly tossed in the recycling.
At this point I suspect that washing machine vendors are running botnets themselves. People won’t care anyway what happens with their appliances without consent anyway.
I have the circuits for all my "dumb" appliances monitored by my homeassistant. Then HA sends notifications to my phone. And it doesn't need to send 3.6GB to the internet to do it.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
A tech-savvy San Francisco resident has sparked conversation online after he shared a perplexing discovery about his LG washing machine's seemingly voracious appetite for data on X (formerly Twitter).
The connection to a Wi-Fi network allows the user to operate functions from a smartphone, download additional wash programs, and receive alerts when a load is complete.
Results found that smart washing machines are collecting a significant amount of user data, including personal information such as date of birth, location, and even access to photos.
article said that LG washing machines require users to provide their date of birth to use the associated app, while Samsung and Miele request access to photos and location data.
Lee is keen to embrace technological advances in everyday life but was baffled by the behavior of the washing machine and shared what he had found on X, hoping to prompt a laugh or two with his followers.
The unexpected attention prompted a wave of reactions and jokes, touching on issues including AI, bitcoin, privacy, downloadable content (DLC), and the ever-growing impact of technology on our lives.
The original article contains 553 words, the summary contains 181 words. Saved 67%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!
Good bot. t y
Laundering Bitcoins
Man that laundry must be heavy
There's that word again. "Heavy." Why are things so heavy in the future? Is there a problem with the Earth's gravitational pull?
Gotta transfer all your dirt.
having lots of networked devices means your life depends on a lot of network programmers
r/nottheonion moment
My drier and whole house heater mines crypto while it's heating lol. That was my dream.
But now I got this washer instead. It comes with default chacka chacka and spin slowly and black hole modes. I think I'm gonna get the new wacka wacka washing mode and the one where you can play music through the motor.
That's a big load! I hope I got enough ram!
😏