“Hire me”
“Hire me”
117 comments
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I feel bad because while I don't reach for react (I usually pick Vue or vanilla), people's comments about react is really depressing.
There's a LOT of shitty react code. And when you see beautiful react implementation, it's like a work of art.
Unfortunately, react projects have been given to by bootcamps grads with 6 months of experience and it's like the blind leading the blind...
I wonder if it's like PHP. Lots of people shit on it because they had to futz around in a garbage project written by garbage developers, fully unaware that it can be elegant in the hands of a professional team who cares about code quality.
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PHP is great for building APIs to use with React or Vue. I’m happy I have so much back end experience with both good and bad code.
My motto: if a Junior dev can’t figure out what I’m doing after two weeks of training, I’ve failed.
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I'll put that to my soul.
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I wonder if it's like PHP. Lots of people shit on it because they had to futz around in a garbage project written by garbage developers, fully unaware that it can be elegant in the hands of a professional team who cares about code quality.
You can apply this reasoning to any [web] technology. The reason it's so visible for react, and previously PHP, is simply popularity.
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Yep, finding people who understand React is hard. The majority of people who say they're an expert in React are either coding bootcamp fresh grads or someone who's entrenched in writing shitty React so by having them join there's basically no difference in skill with a fresh grade hire or a fourth year college student intern.
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The problem with some of the comments here is that even "properly" written React CAN hit a performance bump, and optimization is a rather rare skill no matter the programming context (kinda due to little time given to it, so everyone is out of practice).
But I don't know which ones are the ones talking about that, and which ones are just people annoyed at anything Node in general.
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I find react stupid because of JSX, Vue is much cleaner easier.
ofc you can create a mess with any tool or framework
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When I started my programming journey, JSX was what made me stay sane.
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If you like vue, try svelte(kit). Not that it's better, but another tool in your toolbox. Svelte stores are pretty nice.
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Took him two days to figure out a hello world in react?
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ChatGPT helped.
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They've got really slow internet so it took that long for the Google results to populate with the answer.
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Might be "her" ☝️
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React definition: React (also known as React.js or ReactJS) is a free and open-source front-end JavaScript library for building user interfaces based on components.
Guys, I've learned React in 1 minute!
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Tbf, "learned a language" is a hard thing to pin down in any case.
I've been building enterprise software with python for almost a decade now. I still occasionally find stuff in the stdlibs that I didn't know about, or even sometimes some subtle feature of the language that I never had reason to explore until now.
If someone asks me if I "learned" python, id say hell yeah - but there's always still plenty to learn
That being said, no reasonable definition of learned includes what you could do in 2 days, even as an experienced dev lol
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It' basically the Dunning-Krugger curve - you're well enough into the last part of it so you are well aware of how much there is to learn about it and how you will never know all of it, thus you don't have and never will have the same kind of cocksure belief that "I know this shit" as somebody who knows just a bit but not yet enough to understand how much there is to know.
It's all perfectly normal, IMHO.
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Define "reasonable"...
Something like 20 years ago, I learned PHP in 2 days... meaning, I could write better PHP than anyone else on the team.
(not to diss on the team, one was a Java guy who left shortly afterwards, the others were a couple interns, while I had the power of something like 10 years of coding experience... and a PHP cheatsheet-booklet)
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That sounds less like you learned the language to a high standard, and more that you were already a good programmer in general terms and everyone else on your team barely knew what they were doing.
Ultimately if you can write good code in one language, you can probably also do it in another (especially with access to cheat sheets), but I still wouldn't call using a cheat sheet having "learned" a language.
Of course it's all relative and subjective - which is the whole point , one person may consider just being able to write syntactically correct statements as having "learned" a language. Where others might expect a deep knowledge of the language features, standard libraries, and best design practices (this is the side that I personally lean, which I maintain can't be done in 2 days)
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To be fair, i did cover the Fortran 95 spec in a weekend, but i was motivated to tutor aerospace engineerings as there were far more females there than in Electrical Engineering and Computer Science.
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The point is that learning a spec is not learning how to program in the language, just as learning how a violin works is not learning to play the violin. And writing your first few programs is like learning to play Twinkle Twinkle Little Star and The Happy Farmer on the violin. You've kind of learned the violin, but you're not getting into any professional orchestras.
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Dude’s training for his spelling bee. Let’s not over_react_.
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js
import React from 'react'; import ReactDOM from 'react-dom'; ReactDOM.render( <div> <h1>My Site</h1> <p>Welcome to my cool site. 😎</p> </div>, document.getElementById('root') );Me too. I'll take my salary now, please.
Edit: Lemmy stripped out my rickroll. :(
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Sucks that your rick roll got taken from you. I understand how hard it must feel, so please know that I'm never gonna give you up, never gonna let you down, never gonna run around and desert you
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I didn’t take me more than a day to learn (I don’t understand) React.
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React is a library, when do you consider a library "learned"? If they already knew JavaScript why couldn't they "learn" React in two days?
I've been using Python regularly for a decade and I'm continuously using new libraries and learning new things, I can't think of when I would have considered Python "learned".
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Because anyone worth their salt knows that the superficial hello world example covers the tip of the iceberg. So to say you learned it in two days means you either don't get that you barely scratched the surface or you dont get what other developers really need when they hire someone with knowledge in a specific framework.
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React, Vue, Solid, ... are a lot more complex than your average JavaScript library, because they contain so many abstractions and basically require a separate "way of thinking" in addition to what you know from JS itself. There's a separate state and UI model, hooks are a foreign concept at first, and component memoization and re-rendering takes some getting used to as well.
Now, I only have two years of experience with React, but ten in JavaScript overall, and I will say that using React/JSX required the biggest "mental model shift" for me. That's not to say that it's difficult to work with or particularly hard to learn, but it takes time to understand and really internalize this language-within-a-language library.
The way you're asking that question seems to imply that because the API of some Python libraries can be learned in two days, the same must be possible for React, and that seems rather dismissive.
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This post got the issue exactly. To use either React or Vue, the first thing you (should) learn from them is about the render mechanisms, which are introduced under the concept of component lifecycles, which only exist because both render things using a Virtual DOM. This is NOT hard, not even close, but it's also non-trivial and it's not immediately learnable with just hands-on code experience. It's also boring to go through it first, so "first thing" has a ton of quotation marks most of the ways you learn it. It's the kind of stuff that explains why the code is the way it is, and it makes sense of the thing, but can be new and weird.
I think a better way to relate to the issue is to ask people to recall how they learned git, specially those who tried to learn by doing. I've known SVN before I learned git, so when I had to sit down and actually understand it, some of the concepts were transferrable. But I've seen many, many people try to learn it and completely fumble to understand what the hell they were doing until they were presented with some visual representation such as https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/1256329/117236177-33599100-adf6-11eb-967c-5ef7898b55dc.png A diagram such as that is basically a shorthand to learning the mechanics of git, a sense-maker.
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There are plenty of Python libraries that are similar complexity to React, and not just for web development. Huge frameworks aren't unique to JS, but depending on your background you can totally "learn" how to use them in two days, at least at a base level while you google how to do everything else (but let's be honest, we're doing that ten years in too lol).
But my point was more that gatekeeping "learning" a new tool isn't really a conversation you can win, because when do you actually consider it "learned"?
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Like programming languages, it depends on the context. "Learned" in a casual conversation would mean that one can write programs/libraries and achieve what they want in that language. "Learned" in a more professional manner, like a resume, would mean you can write good, maintainable code and know much of the language underlying stuff and other tools. But practically, in my experience, on a job, knowing a language/library means being better than or equal to your boss if they're a dev.
The boss of my father, for example, is gonna challenge you with his knowledge until you agree you're wrong, if you claim you "know" something. To him, "knowing" would mean you read the docs, source code and used it for many years, so actually know all quirks known to mankind of that language/library. Which isn't really humanly possible.
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Hard disagree on "learned" for the resume. As long as you know enough to get you through the interview you can learn the rest on the job!
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Probably the hardest part of React, for me, was getting used to the callbacks. Passing data up to the parent component using a function. It's a little difficult to get used to if you haven't encountered it already
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Just shove it in the state! I watched a few react videos over the last TWO WHOLE DAYS, it works!! ;$
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I had gone through Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programming before, and feel like that gave me all the foundational stuff I needed to understand what React is doing. The new third edition is in JavaScript, and while I haven't read it, I imagine that would be an even better match.
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This is probably someone that also didn't learn JavaScript properly
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Bah, 2 whole days? I learned React in 1 day!... then another, and another, and then I got a book, and a few years later... I learned how to fix whatever ChatGPT spits out in React in 2 days!
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I learned about how much I didn't understand react on my 2nd dev job. I had like 2yoe with react previously. There's a lot about it. Mostly tricks. hacks and work arounds for it's abysmal performance.
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I'm not at all a React fan, and prefer vanilla or Vue.
But what is happening where you're hitting abysmal performance?
Are you blaming the implementation or the tools because while I can achieve faster performance with vanilla... In no way is abysmal a word I'd used.
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I thought I learned it.. Then I got screwed for ages until I worked out how UseEffect worked.
To be clear though, I still suck, and am probably doing a lot wrong
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Does anyone else read this and think "goddamn I hate my career choice" and simultaneously think "goddamn there isn't a lot you could pay me to do"
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I'm just happy I'm not a frontend developer
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Yeah. I wish I had another career at this point, but every other job I’d just be like “I can write this entire job in a python script in under a week”
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I read react documentation and think "man I hate Mark Zuckerberg".
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I remember building with hooks was a bit tricky.
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I have worked on a few React web apps now and I can't say that I have learned it fr
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To be fair it took me couple of days to learn the basics of react. But I had years of programming experience, including other frontend frameworks like angular, angularjs, knockoutjs etc.
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To be fair, I know enough first aid and background information to understand some basic medical books, and I can 1000% guarantee that you never want me to treat you for any medical problems.
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Eh, lots of stuff can be easy to learn, difficult to master.
Most languages only take a few minutes to do a "hello world" app.
When you announce you're comfortable with something, it probably depends on the scale of the apps you're used to working on.
So a junior dev could very well feel they've learned something like react after two days of cramming.
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A textbook example of the original meaning of Dunning-Kruger, wherein an inexperienced person is unaware of what they have yet to learn and thus overestimate their existing skills.
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This is a good point imo. They just don't know the breadth of it yet. Being experienced also means getting a grasp of the amount of stuff you don't yet know.
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Yet totally fail to make a production inside 2 months.
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Me too, but I wouldn't claim to know React unless I felt good at bluffing.
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Hell, I already sat down three times and tried to figure out what this React thing is. Couldn‘t make it. Using Svelte now and being happy.
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Yeah he’s a big svelte fan.
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One day to learn how to make stuff in React, one day to learn the degree to which the React developers despise you.
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Learned of
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I can use react to build something, but fuck is it inefficient. Still learning though, as i’m just creating my first frontend and it’s for a hobby project anyway, so performance doesn’t matter.
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Have you tried Vue? I like it more.
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117 comments