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I am confused. I'd think something experienced "as pure Logos" is the easiest to verbalize. And why is the image representing it as fractal imagery?
i don't know if it's a second hand reference or a direct reference to experiencing a psychadelic trip and its visuals but yes - OP either heard that psychodelic trips can bring you interesting revelations or has experienced it themselves, and fractals are an almost universal psychadelic visual, hence the image
regarding the logos bit - have you never had a profound realisation that happened so quickly in your brain and on the level of pure emotion (instead of words) that you then needed significantly more time than it took you to think that realisation to actually verbalise what you felt/thought/experienced?
to lead with the most extreme example: ego death, if you take enough psychedelics and are able to let go, you might experience the death of your ego. It's simply impossible to describe with any mortal tongue, but i'll try to paint a picture of how it feels. At some point in your trip, long after time lost meaning, you find yourself- gone. There's sort of like and- echo, at the back of your mind, a faint whisper that is you, you aren't really there anymore. If you let go of the last strand of what's left of you, you'll find your mind dissolving altogether and a very specific and universal feeling will occur: you'll feel, for a short while, or maybe multiple hours, again time has lost all meaning, that you're part of the universe, and you'll understand that you are the universe, a part of it, but also all of it in a way, the universe experiences ourselves through all of us, and we are one, seperate only in the way that mushrooms appear to only be the bits that we can eat.
^and this is to say, trips like that are prime examples of experiencing the purest of logos, understanding, on an innate level, a truth about the world and feeling it change you and your perspective on the world,,, and at the same time being completely unable to do it any justice when you try to describe it, because usually it's very hard and sometimes it's downright impossible
Somewhat unrelated, the dissolution of self can be understood with training and meditation. As I understand, the Buddhist tradition of Dzogchen (that has meditation as practice) is something like that. It is translated to modern secular meditation practices by people like Sam Harris.
absolutely! psychedelics are a wonderful shortcut, but it can be done without them as well
regarding the logos bit - have you never had a profound realisation that happened so quickly in your brain and on the level of pure emotion (instead of words)
Logos means word. That is the confusion I was talking about. If you experience something as pure words then it should be extremely easy to verbalize.
in philosphy it's not defined as such
A principle originating in classical Greek thought which refers to a universal divine reason, immanent in nature, yet transcending all oppositions and imperfections in the cosmos and humanity. An eternal and unchanging truth present from the time of creation, available to every individual who seeks it [link]
He said “as pure logos”. I think it was meat as comparison, not as actual being. Like in “he scaled the wall as fast cat”.
It stresses the clarity with which you see the validity of your understanding, because what is more clear than “word/reason/logos”? But yet the understanding itself while being clear is not logos, only clear as logos.
Mate, you're not "one with the universe", you were just high.
sure i was, and? An altered state of consciousness is just that, an altered state of consciousness. Whatever revelations found in that are in a way the same as sober ones, because there aren't any answers in nature, just whatever we come up with. What's the harm in feeling like something, anything, makes sense? Even if it's just a fleeting feeling
I was high, and I saw myself dissolving into the universe and became one with it for a while. And that feeling was beautiful, gave me a perspective I'll never forget, and quite frankly changed my life for the better
I'm sure you had fun, and if you think that improved your life then good for you. But my point is that whatever revelation you had while tripping is no deeper than what anyone has when they reflect on their lives a bit while sober. You identify with this meme not because whatever "great gnosis" you had is impossible to describe to us mere mortals, but because it really is that simplistic. The only reason you think of it so highly is because your senses were going wild while thinking it.
Plus the whole "one with the universe" talk sounds very pseudosciency to me and i'm not sure if you're just being metaphorical or you believe in magic now, so sorry if that's not the case.
oh i'm aware, i'm not going about starting drug cults because i saw god or anything, i knew the "part of the universe experiencing itself" from Buddhist philosphy before tripping. But during my psychadelic experiences i could feel it (no i didn't read any philosphy right before it, sure i was aware of it but this is a rather universal experience with or without phisophical background). But i do disagree on the "but because it really is that simplistic", man, without experiencing it there is no way to truly understand, countless people (psychonauts) have attempted to describe it, and all of those descriptions pale in comparison to the experience. It's like trying to describe colour to a blind person.
it's not science, it's closer to philosphy than anything. I don't belive in magic, but i do belive in a unity of all beings with the universe, i mean, we are objectively a part of it, made of all the same stuff, just awake
I'll add to this thread in my own way.
Drugs are much like tools (for they are tools). One may use them for good. One may use them for bad. One may specialise in them. One may be inexperienced with them. Workflows can connect well with one person, but be detrimental or impractical for another person. People simply function differently.
Judge not how one makes progress, but if progress has been made.
Whooooosh.
They're describing how something felt, not something that "actually" happened. Who are you to say they didn't feel that way?
Well i'd argue that feeling something isn't exactly gnosis then. Doesn't matter how awesome you felt if the extent of your revelation is "i exist and i'm part of the universe'
Call me cynical but hearing druggies talk about their trips like it's some transcendental super knowledge sounds just like a facebook aunt talking about the power of healing crystals to me or some such nonsense.
Calling anyone who's ever had a psychedelic experience a "druggie" is extremely judgemental. Unlike crystals, the point of psychedelics is the experience itself, and I can assure you it's very real. But that makes me a "druggie" right? Seems like you think the only people qualified to comment on psychedelic experiences are the ones who know nothing about them because they've never had one.
I've no problem wih drugs or even psychedelics, but the moment you start acting like you're a buddhist monk because you took acid once is when i'll start rolling my eyes.
You're reading a lot into that person's comment that isn't there.