Technology @lemmy.world _haha_oh_wow_ @sh.itjust.works 6 mo. ago

If Start menu ads in Windows 11 aren't bad enough, something worse might be on the horizon

www.xda-developers.com If Start menu ads in Windows 11 aren't bad enough, something worse might be on the horizon

Don't be surprised if you see more invasive ads in the Windows 11 Start menu in the future.

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61 comments

Click bait avoided, a prerelease build of Windows suggests some kind of general advertising in the start menu beyond promoting ads.
- The article also calls this a "leak." Is it really a leak if it's in the insider Windows build that Microsoft makes freely available to anyone who wants it?
  
  It's datamining a hidden feature. I'd call that a leek.
  
  No.
- Sounds like we need to start developing ad-blockers based directly within the OS.
  
  Those exist. Use dns based adblockers. You can pick from a variety of services already out there or run your own with pihole.
  
  Yeah, though ... those don't always work and it is entirely possible to break them if they become overly "pesky" for the corporations.
  
  Dafuq are you talking about? I've been using it on android for years and before that I was editing the appropriate files on windows to forward or block access to certain domains/ips.
  
  It's all about how you implement it. It's also about what services you use, for example, geicos app was so fucky that it never wanted to work right even with enough of the app and domains whitelisted. On my pc I tend to use chrome only when I need to access a site but don't want to whitelist some or all the domains even on a temporary basis, FF basically blocks any and all ads I may come across. My lifes goal is to see as close to zero ads as possible.
  
  I'm guessing that you haven't actually used them and I'm going to also guess that you have no idea what dns actually is and therefore how ridiculous your claim here is. Do yourself a favor and learn a bit more about how this shit works lest you look like an idiot.
  
  If I implement my service to use the same underlying IP address for the primary service/critical access that I use for advertising services (e.g., I put a load balancer and have Windows Advertising integrated with Windows Update via the same IP addresses), you can't block the IP without breaking Windows Update.
  
  That's worse for other ingrained systems, e.g., a news app that actually has to send you content could do this instead of using separate IPs for the advertising service, and then if you want to use their service you have to accept the advertising packets.
  
  If you're relying on DNS for your blocking as well, it's entirely possible to distribute the IP address information without ever involving DNS by syncing up the appropriate IPs out of band on some built in IP addresses hard coded in the binary (plenty of things do this sort of thing already for security purposes, they want to minimize the risk of a local DHCP server handing out some garbage DNS record and sending you a virus via their update mechanism).
  
  I could go on.
  
  Do yourself a favor and learn a bit more about how this shit works lest you look like an idiot.
  
  Don't be a dick; especially if you don't know what you're talking about. Thanks.
  
  DNS based blocking only works for regular DNS requests.
  
  At this point, any app that wanted to bypass that could use DoH/DoT+ECH to completely bypass your DNS and thus the blocking it provides. With these tools, all you'd see is an outgoing TLS connection to a remote IP; all other data is encrypted.
  
  Any app or chunk of windows that went that route would be uninstalled post haste.
  
  I'm not surprised by the lack of knowledge here. There are tons versions of windows with all kinds of pieces missing and guaranteed that a version of 10/11 with the ad module missing or deactivated would be available ASAP if this kind of thing moves forward.
  
  You lot should be proud of yourselves, you made sure to bring the worst parts of reddit here and your going to stop getting people like me contributing because of your idiocy.
  
  In simpler terms for those who can't handle the above. There are alternatives to the default start menu, one would simply have to install one of those or at the least block the start menu module from accessing the internet.
  
  You were so focused on being right and holier than thou that you failed to recognize those among you who have been playing with computers since word processors were all the rage. Some of us have been using and abusing windows since the pre 3.x days.
  
  If this is how you treat/speak to people; we're far better off without you.
  
  Don't let the door hit you on the way out.
  
  DNS based ad blockers (I run one, it’s great, highly recommend) can’t block something if the address is both legit and also serves ads. For instance, if MS used the same domain name for updates and windows key validation as it does for ads, you’d quickly run into an issue. Especially if (please don’t read this MS), they required validation on every boot, then replied with a payload combination of a the ads and a “yea you’re legit and can boot”.
  
  Also, MS could easily (and has) coded some processes to not lookup DNS addresses in things like LMHOSTS or HOSTS, they could just as easily bypass DNS itself. They certainly have plenty of public IPs they could have a process submit to the network stack.
  
  I'm pretty sure you can turn these off with local group policy. And if you can, I'm sure someone will make a script to do it for you.
  
  Personally, I set up AD for my own devices a long time ago, when I got pissed off about Windows 10 rebooting my PC while I'd stepped away to eat dinner and killing everything I had open. So I also use it to set group policy to turn off things like this. But this is far overkill for the average person.
  
  Or literally just use the existing option in the settings menu that has been there since Windows 10 to turn this shit off.
  
  All of this is clickbait.
  
  Until it turns itself back on during an update. Or hey implement another version that has its own off switch buried somewhere, etc.
  
  It’s bloat and hassle.
  
  You shouldn’t have to do maintenance on a brand new Windows install. Set preferences and install apps? Sure. But expecting everyone to go through a checklist of shit to turn off? Nah. That’s user hostile and so tedious.
  
  Checklists and debloating procedures like that can feel like something an expert would do. And can feel like what a good computer user should do, but that’s a limited mindset that is a niche among all Windows platform users.
  
  Warning, car analogy:
  
  Imagine if you bought a new car and had to scrape a bunch of advertisement decals off it. And you have to remove unneeded features like spoilers that are dragging you down. Oh, and randomly in the middle of the night the dealer tracks your car down and applies new decals that you will want to scrape off your windshield when you get a chance.
  
  Other than the dealer sneaking up in the middle of the night to reapply decals, that is sadly exactly what buying a new car is like.
  
  Or, well, at least from what I've seen and heard from others. Who has money these days for new cars?
  
  Setting preferences is exactly what this is, though.
  
  Having to tell your computer that “My preference is no bloat and marketing.” is a sad state of affairs though.
  
  My whole point is these things shouldn’t need to be configured. Because the bloat and marketing shouldn’t be part of the OS like this.
  
  I've worked with a Linux installation that had plenty of bloat and marketing by default too, I spent a fair bit of time combing through it turning off stuff I definitely didn't want. Whether it "should" or "shouldn't" doesn't change that it is.
  
  But updates can and do reset them.
  
  Group Policy really helps - I don't think I've had an update reset a policy... Yet.
  
  Imagine depending on a company giving you the privilege of turning off ads in the operating system you paid $100USD for.
  
  MS can get bent, I’m sick of advertising. Read the news, ads, watch any video without Adblock, ads, go out in public to enjoy a day out with my family, ads on every road and square foot of space. Now they want to put ads on the main menu of an operating system I only use to for relaxation and entertainment, but they were oh so kind to give me the option of turning them off for now. I’m not waiting for them to decide to remove the option, I’m going to remove myself from the equation.
  
  I already gave these greedy bastards my money, I just want some peace and quiet while I relax, but that’s too much to ask for these days.
  
  Yep. It's my goal to be as unprofitable a citizen for our corporate overlords as possible.
  
  I want them to lose money by doing business with me.
  
  I want them to go bankrupt so that their future replacements can learn from their mistakes and not repeat them.
  
  If they choose to be user hostile, I'll match their energy and multiply it. Fuck em.
  
  Think of the corporations!
  
  Clicking a checkbox in a settings menu is so complicated, though!
  
  Simpler to install Linux, a whole new operating system, and try to figure out how to either run your Windows apps there or find new equivalent applications to use.
- Additionally, there has been an option in the settings menu since Windows 10 to disable Microsoft fucking with the start menu and settings "app" like this.
  
  I would be shocked if it doesn't also handle whatever this shit is.

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