Recommendations of non-Apple products with similar longevity?
Recommendations of non-Apple products with similar longevity?
EDIT: Getting a ton of great responses thanks everyone <3 Once this is up for 24 hours or so I’ll make another edit summarizing everyone’s recs for future reference. Keep ‘em coming!
TL;DR Have any recs for non-Apple phones/laptops that have lifespans of at least 5+ years?
Wanted to get everyone’s opinion on want brands/products have worked for them. I’m lightly techy and not afraid to put some effort in, but also don’t want to build everything from scratch. I think Apple’s products are often anti-consumer, anti-privacy, anti-yadda yadda yadda.
At the same time, with both phones and laptops, I’ve found my Apple products to have double or even triple the lifespan of any other brand. I did my research and bought a $1000+ HP laptop with Ryzen7 a little over two years ago, and due to a flaw in the hinge which is now subject to a class action lawsuit, the screen has cracked and it’s mostly unusable. Other purchase haven’t failed quite that dramatically but don’t tend to last as long. On the other hand, my or my partner’s old Macbooks and iPhones are easily seeing 5+ years of use in addition to software updates.
So let me know what’s worked for you!
Don't buy HP laptops. They're terrible. Framework is great, and Lenovo and Dell are generally pretty good. Put Linux on it if you care about privacy.
It's a little early to pronounce longevity on Framework. They could be great, the pieces are there for them to be great, but the whole enterprise could fail and leave you with an upgradeable/fixable laptop with no upgrades or parts.
At the very least, if Framework dies, many of the parts are standardized, and the ones that aren't are mostly open source. The SSD, RAM, WiFi card, and screen connector are all standardized. The expansion cards use USB-C and have an open-source shape; many people have already made third-party expansion cards. The motherboard has an open-source layout, and there are open-source CAD files to make custom enclosures (again, people have already done it). There are general schematics with pinouts on their Github, and they've provided exact schematics to repair stores. If they die, you end up with a laptop that is more repairable than almost any other, as well as a community with enough information to keep it alive if they want to.
I mean, a single year upgradable parts is already better than 99% of the market, thats not a hard bar to pass.
Just wanted to expand a bit on your comment - Dell have a few laptop product lines, and the Latitude line is the business one that should be the most reliable/longest-supported. I’ve had a few Latitude laptops that lasted 3 years each before I changed jobs and left them behind, and was satisfied with them. Worked well with Linux which was a bigger deal back in 2015 than it is now.
Other companies are probably the same - Lenovo thinkpads are good, yoga not so much.
Totally agree about Linux, it’s come a long way in the last 10 years and you can do basically everything there now. Battery life may be affected, I think that’s one of the last areas they need to work on.
Apple products are without critique for sure. But if they last 2 or 3 times as long, are they all that anti-consumer? Compared to Windows, are they all that anti-privacy? I suggest you take another look, without your preconceived notions of Apple products.
Yeah saying Apple is anti-privacy is like… what? Compared to who? Apple is consistently fighting against meta and google (and governments) in favour of user privacy
I think Apple is better out of the box than most other companies in terms of privacy, which comes from a lot more of their profit coming from hardware rather than data harvesting (ie Meta, Google). Although the EFF has said that’s more an indictment of other tech companies than saying Apple is particularly good.
I do think the lack of customization in macOS makes it more difficult to harden your security settings. PrivacyGuides lists their concerns along with their recommended configuration here.
Do they last longer? I have an IPhone 3 somewhere that just decided to stop working, yet my HTC with Android 1.2 still works fine.
Most of what's held me back from Apple products has been their planned obsolescence, where the OS was no longer supported, which I've never had with a PC. I've had my cheap second hand laptop for 7 years now and that still works fine with the latest software
I am leaning towards a new MacBook for the reasons you stated among others. I came here to get some new perspectives, and to explore other options I might not be aware of yet.
I think the problem is there is no grey area in opinions on Apple. Either they are perfect and pro-privacy and all good (not true), or they are anti-consumer, anti-privacy, anti-user pro-capitalist (again, mostly not true.) Truth is somewhere in between, and judging the product without one of those preconceived notions above is helpful.
For me, I could never use a laptop by another maker because the trackpad on non-Apple devices are (in my experience) absolute garbage.
I’m about to give some good and bad:
Apple is horrid for repair, and has some serious shortcomings in design. Their newest laptops now have a not insignificant chance to self-destruct in a completely unrecoverable way.
But the performance is great, battery life is sublime, sleek and rigid case design. Plus the ecosystem perks of you own multiple apple devices.
But because of the design issues, you MUST put significant thought into which upgrades you buy bc you’ll never be able to change the configuration of your laptop. Make sure to have a solid backup strategy. And factor apple care plus into your pricing, bc it’s necessary with these devices. Only apple can fix 95% of problems with your laptop, and without apple are plus their repair pricing is insane. Even with apple care you may have to struggle significantly with them to get certain things covered. It’s just part of the game if you want to buy one of their devices.
The only laptop i would recommend over a MacBook are frameworks, but I have no idea how durable they are. Just that they will last as long as replacement parts would be available.
No one says the devices are anti consumer, except for some that are intentionally made incompatible with common replacement parts (missing "apple logo"). The walled garden is.
Any laptop designed for enterprise like Lenovo Thinkpad or hp elitebook/ProBook
Your laptop was an HP pavilion, right? Those are designed to barely last the warranty period. Their engineers on this product line have a long experience of carefully choosing plastics that will degrade within 24 months
IMHO MacBooks are super overrated. OS support is not as long as normal computers (5 years instead of "indefinite") and they still have hardware flaws to hinges and keyboard
I don’t currently use macOS, but macOS support is typically about 7 years, sometimes up to 10. Apple supports the 3 latest versions of its operating system.
Mainstream Windows support seems to be about 1-3 years.
What are you talking about? You can take a Pentium 4 from twenty years ago and install latest windows 10. Microsoft releases a new version every 6 to 12 months but the computer updates automatically. Of course it makes no sense for them to continue supporting an old version that anyway everyone can update from without issues
And once apple decided the os is not compatible, your computer is on death row. Latest apps won't run. Ok, can get security updates, but you needed to run latest final cut pro x? Bad luck, insert credit card and purchase new Mac
IMHO MacBooks are super overrated. OS support is not as long as normal computers (5 years instead of “indefinite”) and they still have hardware flaws to hinges and keyboard
And batteries. Swollen batteries in MacBooks were very common at my work. I have never seen it in any other laptop but Desktop Support would just react to it with 'o, another one'.
HP's consumer side definitely declined rapidly in quality over the last 10-15 years - had an HP that needed repairs after a few months back in '14 whereas I've got a Pavilion from '04 or so that's still going!
it varies , I had 2015 zbook, HP repaired it under warranty about 4 times for ongoing undiagnosable video failures. (At end it had new display and display cable, new GPU, new mobo and new keyboard, since they could not locate what was triggering display problem) However 2017 Zbook still chugging alomg with 0 issues.
I would not trust apple products. Self cracking display on laptop? Updates that slow down devices on purpose? no, thanks
Never had any issues on any of my macbooks and I've had them for over 5 years each. My 2012 mbp still runs as good as the day I got it!
My key caps have been falling off my work provided M1 Air. Thankfully, the keyboard is so crap I can barely tell the difference.
Ended up repurposing an old XPS 13 that I found in a supply closet as my dev box.
Wayland+Sway == Infinitely better experience
- Laptop: Framework. Modular hardware, easy to upgrade and repair.
- Smartphone: Pixel + GrapheneOS.
Framework definitely seems the way to go if you want a long-lived laptop - as long as you live in one of the few countries that they sell to!
Pixel + Graphene OS is such a good combination! I've been using it for months now and I feel free with it.
I wish small pixels were still a thing, now they are all 6inch+
ThinkPads are considered the Windows/Linux equivalent of Apple laptops in business settings.
And owned by Lenovo. Who in the past loaded unremovable bloatware reinstallers into their BIOS so that fresh installs always reloaded their shit.
If you want a Linux laptop, System76 is your best bet.
For phones, new pixel with grapheneos.
The new pixel phones have 5 year support windows now.
They have 3 years of operating system updates and 5 years of security updates. Source
Thanks, I'll adjust my claim to 5 years. I must have misremembered re the longevity of security updates.
Thanks, Pixel+GrapheneOS has been the most tempting iOS alternative for me so far.
Similar longevity to Apple products isn't a high bar.
I'm typing this on a ten year MacBook Pro that is running a currently supported version of MacOS and runs as fast as the day I bought it. I have two MacBook Airs that are eleven years old and still in secondary service. I have a pile of Dell and Lenovo Windows laptops of similar age that can still run but are basically doorstops or suitable for beater Linux or BSD machines, definitely not daily drivers.
I’m typing this on a ten year MacBook Pro
Lucky you, I guess, because I sure haven't had such good fortune.
that is running a currently supported version of MacOS
How is that possible? The almost-dead MacBook I mentioned is younger than yours and is stuck on Monterey.
and runs as fast as the day I bought it.
Probably. I didn't say anything about how fast they are, because all common platforms in use today still run reasonably well on decade-old hardware.
If it had 10ish GB of RAM, at least. Browsers eat RAM like popcorn.
I have a pile of Dell and Lenovo Windows laptops of similar age that can still run but are basically doorstops or suitable for beater Linux or BSD machines, definitely not daily drivers.
I'm guessing you didn't pay $2500 for them, though. That's down to specs, not manufacturer. Apple hardware is almost invariably high-spec and therefore quite fast, but Apple thankfully doesn't have a monopoly on fast computers.
Okay i'm not sure how much + is in your 1000$ and obviously there's a manufacturing defect at olay here. But man a MacBook is 2000$+ I have heard this argument too often unfortunately:
I tried Android once and it was horrible so i just went back to iPhone©™ and now everything is great again.
Context: they bought a 300$ Samsung phone and expected it to perform the same as their previous 800$ iPhone....
And this just sounds too similar. "I previously had a 2000$+ device, now I bought a 1000$+ one and it doesn't perform the same." Except for the part where it's also a shitty brand and the device had a manufacturing defect.
I’m no apple shill, but every Samsung I’ve had felt great for a few months. And rapidly started to run like absolute shit. Then I swore off them for a couple of years, and came back when everyone was like “this one’s different, it’s not like the ones before” and then I had the same issue. So I got a Pixel, and that was so much better software wise. But that pixel 2 had a design defect that saw lots of devices having GPS problems and that was annoying as hell when I was trying to do Uber.
My past 2 phones have been iPhones. Not perfect, I miss lots of the customization and developer level control over stuff… but my phone works, reliably. I was pissed about throttlegate , I had one of those phones affected, but the phone was like 4/5 years old… and I decided that my experience with other phones was worse, and got another iPhone.
I’m feeling the need to upgrade again, and while I can’t endorse a lot of the anti-consumer shit apple does… I need a reliable phone. So, hopefully there’s another option out there for me.
Honestly I had a OnePlus 6T for 4 years and after that started feeling slightly slow and i need it for testing at work, I now have a Pixel 7. Both the 6T and the pixel are great phones. My only regret is my own fault, i want to have a telephoto camera but thought that it's not worth buying the pixel 7 pro for... There's many good options out there. But i admit they are harder to find. It's not "buy iPhone" and be done with it.
But honestly every Apple device i've used in the past made me dislike Apples software more and more. It's fine as long as you aren't used to anything else and aren't a Poweruser i guess. But there's just so many weird decisions in the software. And it's all locked down to hell.
For phones 5+ years of updates is good compared to the alternatives, and is why I have one. For a computer, on the other hand, it’s just not very impressive. Perhaps FairPhones come close (don’t know how long their software is supported but their selling point is longevity), but their specs aren’t that impressive. On the flip side you get something repairable.
MacBooks are often built better with higher quality materials than many other laptops, but it is essentially a computer. Most computers that have high enough specs will always run the latest version of most Linux distributions or Windows barring any need for weird drivers from the past century. Feels a little iffy to have a perfectly good computer that won’t update software anymore just because. Up until recently you could just install some Linux OS on your old MacBooks when it went out of support but honestly I don’t know whether you can still do that after they started making non-x86 stuff.
With all that said, haven’t seen many laptops physically outlive MacBooks’ updates. With the exception of some ThinkPads and possibly some XPS models. Plastic laptops with plastic hinges tend to struggle keeping up, especially if the display is on the larger side. A large gaming laptop living the life of a typical MacBook, going to cafes and university in a backpack every day is probably gonna have more stress on hinges etc.
As for HP I have only heard bad stuff about them for the last 10 years or so. Don’t think I’ll buy stuff from them due to their evil printers that won’t scan without ink etc.
Not many specific recommendations here but just some observations I have made. Hope it’s helpful.
honestly I don’t know whether you can still do that after they started making non-x86 stuff
Asahi Linux isn't far off and I'm guessing it will be ready for prime time before anything Apple Silicon loses support.
I agree on HP printer subscription ink, that is an outright scam. But I have had an HP 2017 Zbook for daily use and travel and 0 issues.
I can't say if the quality is still the same, but I bought a Chromebook when they first came out for $99 and that little buddy has lasted me a decade now. It's seen me through a deployment, a degree, several moves, and has been through a load of abuse and come out the other side working as spiffy as day one, minus some scuff on the screen. (Unfortunately Google has recently aged it out, but I'll find a use for it with a virtual machine perhaps).
I imagine most little netbooks are similarly built and can withstand a boatload, although their computing power definitely lacks.
I have an aged out Chromebook running lubuntu just fine. In my case, I had to open the bottom and remove a "write protect" screw, then it installed and it's still going strong. I had to mess around with the keyboard settings a bit, but otherwise it worked just great!
thinkpad T series laptop
Oneplus phones are good. Beastly specs and run LineageOS. Also not too challenging or expensive to replace (most) parts.
I mean, if we're going by anecdotes, on average, most gear will last 5 years more often than not. I still have my Samsung Galaxy Note 3 that's still working, just that it's sorely obsolete on the software side. Another even more extreme example: I also have a Samsung i600 that's also still working, and only recently has the battery started showing signs of bloating. That's a 15+ year-old phone!
The several thousand laptops the charity I worked for (and still volunteer for sometimes) give out yearly also indicate that plenty of laptops will make it past the 5 year mark. Until last year we were still giving out 6th gen Intel laptops.
Samsung Galaxy Note 3
Whack LineageOS on that puppy!
Side note, I have such mixed feelings on HP. I have only anecdotal things to say, so please keep that in mind!
I bought a budget HP Pavilion back in 2020, for a similar reason to you, because of the Ryzen setup. It sees use 4-5 times a week. And I have to say... I love it.
The build quality is, in my opinion, outstanding for a budget ($600) laptop. Its metal, solid, with almost no noticable keyboard flex. It feels so much better than both Dells my wife and I use for work. And the keyboard is actually my favorite of all the boards in my house.
My family has always had new tech coming in and out of the house and one of the longest lasting devices we had was an HP 2-In-1.
I don't support their scummy software practices (shoutout brother printers). But for the most part every piece of HP tech I've bought has been average or above. But online they're somewhat universally panned. Its interesting.
This is just in my limited experience, I work as a tech for an MSP and I've generally seen HPs fail more so than other brands (not by a wide margin but I wouldn't buy a HP).
The other device we see fail more is Microsoft Surfaces, especially the tablets. I love the form factor and what Microsoft goes for with them but I'd never buy one purely on the reliability concerns I have, and (with a couple of exceptions) terrible repairability.
I would have agreed until the hinge broke through my HP Envy x360 screen :-(
Not much of a warning before it happened either, I would look into your model to see if that’s a recurring issue. Apparently you can loosen the tension in the screw on the hinge ahead of time to help avoid it eventually snapping. Good luck either way!
xiaomi. super cheap and top notch specs. have multiple phones and laptops. even without case the phones are almost unbreakable
Can confirm, accidentally threw my Poco down the concrete staircase (and ~1.5m drop) outside my flat and it somehow didn't even scratch the screen!
Can confirm, I bought a Poco phone F1 and I still use it to this day. Bought it in 2018
My work machines get cycled out after 3 years, but I've had good results with Lenovo and Dell.
Dell Precision line for computers. They are not light. They are not slim. They are not fashionable. They can probably stop a bullet. Dell is still actively still selling (refurb'd) units from ~6 Intel generations ago. The desktop workstations are similarly bulletproof.
Thinkbook t14
Smartphone: I've just said goodbye to my Honor phone after 5/6 years of service (can't remember how many precisely). Incredible lifespan for its price.
However repairability could be great. I've changed its battery once and screen a couple times, by the end of it the frame was about to break from all the times I had opened it.
I've had good luck with Dell,I recently was using a old Dell Inspiron again to access my VM from. Stuck a SSD in it and upgraded the ram and it works surprisingly great, I think it's from like 2015 but the i5 in it still runs super quick.
For phones I'm really liking my Samsung, I upgraded to a s22 from my pixel 3 last year and having Samsung Dex is pretty awesome, I used to build up a little PC to use on my breaks at work but now I just spin up dex on a spare monitor and can parsec into my VM and do anything I'd want without carrying a laptop
I buy a lot of my laptops from Dell Outlet. Extremely good for the price and I haven't had a single one die on me yet - and the first was bought 13 years ago!
My Lenovo Legion laptop is going strong for 5+ years now, also a Nokia smartphone is 3+ already. Had terrible experience with ASUS and HP laptops in the past and had to change them after 2-3 years of use.
Dude did you get the HP Envy x360 too? My hinge failed a year in, I got the panel replaced, a year later the hinge fails again. My screen hasn't cracked but I can't close the laptop anymore... Gonna get a Thinkpad L14 and hope it holds up a bit better, since Thinkpads are known for decent build quality.
Man HP just doesn't know how to make hinges anymore - I've had the hinge on two different consumer-grade HP laptops crap out within a few months/years over the past decade!
YES, it was super disappointing because otherwise it was a solid laptop. Cracked the corner of my screen and is basically non-portable now. Currently have it hooked up to an external monitor and keyboard just to make it until I can get a new laptop.
Read up on it and apparently it’s been a huge issue in HP’s build quality since at least 2017. There’s a class action lawsuit you can sign up for and hopefully be compensated in some way.
Business devices from HP (Eliebook). Having mine since 2018, runs like a charm
Linux phones should allow for much higher longetivity than Android or iOS devices as Linux phone OSes update more like desktop OSes than mobile, in that the device-specific parts are relatively small instead of having the entire OS image be custom made for a specific device. As long as your device has mainline Linux support it will continue to receive updates pretty much forever, or until Linux drops the architecture (unlikely any time soon for ARM, especially ARM64).
People praise Apple for 6 years of updates but my 2010 desktop build runs Windows 10 flawlessly still and will run fine with updates until 2025. Windows 11 arbitrarily ends support officially, but it would still work fine. Linux works flawlessly too and will continue to do so. 6 years is shit, but the entire mobile industry is even shittier on average so 6 years ends up looking decent.