Valve has little to worry about as new Steam Deck rival arrives

I'm no fanboy but Windows just sucks for anything portable. At first I was exited to see how manufacturers would pivot to adopt linux for their portables. Now it's just watching flop after flop.
- Same. I just can't imagine using anything other than Linux for this kinda handheld. Like, I'm mainly a Windows user and I can't imagine trying to use windows on my steam deck. When you want to make a gaming-focueed handheld like this, you want as much performance as you can squeeze out of the hardware. You're not doing that with windows.
  
  I understand what you're saying, but that doesn't have to be true. Many of the games are made to be run on windows, windows is still a effecient os, it's just a lot of bloat, which can be disabled. Also a lot of optimizations in nt has been done for gaming, features which are missing in the linux kernel, but there are RFCs to add nt like synchronization primitives, in the linux kernel.
- I read they pivoted berceuse of community complaint
- I'm following Bazzite's development closely because I feel like that'll be the saving grace for all the gaming handhelds that are windows-only at the moment. If Bazzite matches or supplants SteamOS then I might consider a device like an ROG Ally.
  
  I would definitely consider Bazzite as a good upgrade for those devices, but until Asus fixes their warranty issue, hardware issues, and adds track pads, I'm not really interested in their hardware.
  I really appreciate knowing that valve will fix any issues that come up.
  
  I used bazzite on my ROG Ally for a couple of days before I went back to windows because it didn’t reliably work. Crashes abound and some games that work fine on my Steam Deck just refused to open.
  Hopefully one day it gets ironed out.
  
  I just tried installing Bazzite on a desktop, and its installer is a hot mess. The most I could get out of it was an error screen at the end, and an unbootable OS. Grub's config file was just an error message. I couldn't make heads or tails of how its ostree mess was ever supposed to boot, so I moved on to Debian.
- They're all scared to piss off Microsoft by bringing out a Linux device.

Every single one of the competitors I've seen makes at least two of the following mistakes, each of which means they don't stand a chance:
Windows
Display resolution > 720p
No trackpads
Awful layout
- It's insane to me that the competition can't compete with the blueprint. I was really hoping that the deck would cause better products to follow, not worse.
- I could do without the trackpads but everything else I agree on.
  
  Maybe you could, but the whole point of the steam deck is the ability to play any PC game, and most require mouse input to play well. Most people would be unwilling to make that tradeoff
- Why not 1080p?
  
  Increased battery drain for diminishing returns. From the distance and screen size, it wouldn't be that noticeable, but the performance drops would be.
  
  You also lose integer scaling if you need to run a game at common resolutions below 1080p. (720p/800p, etc.)

Unless it runs Linux it doesn't stand a chance. The moment you decide to sell a handheld gaming console running Windows you doom it to failure. It's the worst OS possible for that purpose.
- Nope, there are plenty worse...
  z/os, Temple OS, OpenBSD, React OS and others.
  Sorry, I am just feeling pedantic, it is late and I am about to get some sleep...
  
  Are you honestly telling me you wouldn't buy a Temple OS handheld?
- Windows is the main reason I never got one of those PC handhelds even though they have been around for a very long time.
  Never really felt like a handheld, more like an unwieldly laptop.
- To be honest I was recently forced back into Windows by my employer recently and I don't get it's good for :p
  
  Control. It's metrics and data mining all the way up.
  What's funny is that when I learned about system admin, it was all Linux.

Honestly just shows how dialed in the steam deck is, it's why I won't ever buy one of their competitors.
- Honestly just shows how dialed in the steam deck is
  I don't understand how so many competitors are just making rhe most obvious, braindead mistakes. Who the fuck thought using Windows was a good idea?!?
  
  You're right, of course. But there's still a few games that don't run on Steam Deck (looking at you, Henteko Doujin), that run fine in Windows. I'm able to play these games on my Ayn Loki Zero with Win 11 install, via Steam. Of course, I'm talking about playing indie shmups on a US $250 device, so I'm a bit of a niche case. So... situationally it's a good-ish idea? For, like, three people? Not enough people to make a product worth selling, anyway.

The thing is, none of the competitors and rivals are competitors and rivals to Valve. Every sold device that can play Steam games, is a win. Unlike traditional consoles, Valve only benefits from competition. The Steam Deck kicked off a trend and made handheld PCs popular for the "masses" (relatively speaking off course).
Besides that, any handheld PC with Windows is just not at the same level of Steam Deck. The few more games that are playable is a plus, but the entire system is such a downgrade for a gaming first device.
- Valve has a larger goal though of making Linux a viable alternative to Windows for gamers. The whole reason valve has made some much effort on Linux gaming is because Microsoft scared them when Microsoft started making plans to block software installs from anywhere except the Microsoft store.
  Microsoft has backed off from that plan some since, but many new new computers running windows are in "s mode" by default which limits software to Microsoft store only. It can be disabled if you have administrator privileges and know how, but it's still an example of Microsoft trying to shift towards a future where all PC games have to be bought through their store.
  This is also why steam jumped at the chance to work with Google on getting steam on Chrome OS.
  
  Is S mode really that popular? I've never seen that in an enterprise setting. End users won't want S mode because it will limit functionality.

The inclusion of the keyboard is a little perplexing. On paper it makes sense that a lot of PC games are built for or work best with a keyboard, but that's because you're using stuff as hotkeys, not because you're typing. How do you comfortably do that with this form factor? I feel like a panel of fewer programmable buttons would've made more sense.
- It's almost as if Valve thought this through when they engineered the steam deck
- I would imagine its for the typing you might need to do, rather than using an onscreen keyboard.
  
  Not sure if I'd prefer a tiny physical keyboard with shitty flat buttons over a swipe capable touch keyboard. Especially since it does not look like it would be comfortable to reach with your thumbs.
  
  Just seems odd if this is supposed to be a gaming device. How much typing do you really do on a steam deck?

i see a keyboard , but no track pads. track pads are really versatile and a key feature of the deck. this keyboard doesn't look to comfortable to use either. Maybe it's ok ish if you put down the device on flat ground and are seated, but typing on this thing while holding it in your hands is going to require some amazing thumb agility.
I have a small Bluetooth keyboard paired with my steam deck that I use whenever I need to input longer stretches of text. it works out just fine.
- This keyboard looks like the worst possible combination of needing to set it down to use it but also too small to actually put your hands on.

Is Valve even truly interested in being part of the competition? All their hardware offerings seem more like prototypes or proofs of concept, and the details for other manufacturers to build on the idea are available. Like their strategy to inject competition in these spheres is more just lighting a fire under the asses of other manufacturers to get them making the hardware instead of Valve.
- Yeah. I get the feeling that Valve would be more than happy for people to make competitors to the Steam Deck as long as it had the Steam store on it.
- as long as it can run steam, its a win for them.
  think of steam machines, steam controllers and steam links before the the deck.
  the goal with most (excluding vr) of valves hardware has been to appeal to the console player audience.
  it doesnt matter who builds those things at the end, as long as they bring more users Into their ecosystem

To be honest, any hardware company can't really compete with valve toe to toe since valves can cut cost and sell at a loss. But I am interested in how the so-called steam competitor would make the same handheld device. I'm waiting for you Tim Epic.
- Please for the love of God no Whatever epic released would be half baked and make the entire gaming ecosystem worse
  
  See I'm really split on Epic.
  The corporate side is absolute trash, but UE5 is genuinely one of the most advanced game engines currently in existence and will massively push the industry forward in terms of standards as everyone rushes to compete (except for Unity who are sticking with their old strategy of doing nothing at all).
- Microsoft will probably come out with an Xbox branded device some day, but I expect it will be restricted to Microsoft store games and game pass.
  
  Yep, this is more in line with what I expect as a steam deck competitor. We'll just see if they can provide more value to customers than steam while also making good hardware to support it.
- Honestly, I'm not too sure how much price goes into it. I've used several of the Steam Deck competitors, each with better specs. But each has a worse overall experience. Each of the people I know with one of the competitors seldom uses it. But even the people with Steam Decks who planned to use theirs only for travel have ended up using them far more than they intended. My Steam Deck has become my primary gaming machine. I'm not sure how a hardware company competes there without working with a major game store, but I don't really see Valve being particularly opposed to working with hardware companies to provide Steam OS builds for competing hardware since it pushes their platform.
  Personally, I don't think Epic is in a position to make a really feasible Steam Deck competitor, partially because they've gone all-in on Windows, and the break from Windows is one of the things that's allowed the Steam Deck to have its great experience. The only company who can really customise Windows to that extent is Microsoft, and they'd likely rather make an Xbox handheld than work with Epic on a Windows-based one.
- To be honest, any hardware company can’t really compete with valve toe to toe since valves can cut cost and sell at a loss.
  So far most of the companies that have tried it could have taken the same approach. They just haven't, like MSI and ASUS. I'm guessing because they know they don't need to, since there's a demographic of people who will buy "the best" as long as it's marketed at them. Why sell it at a loss when someone will pay over full price for something like the ROG Ally.
  
  Yeah, the market for those handhelds seems to be people who either specifically want Windows or want better specs (or think they want that), but don't mind the trade-offs.
  
  No, MSI or ASUS or really any other hardware company (that primarily sells hardware) makes money from selling hardware. Valve main source of income is their steam service, not the deck. For any deck they sold, they could make a loss but they gain revenue by a first time gamer. Much like how console can be sold at a loss but making the profit from the game they sold. The primary difference between traditional console and steam deck is that any hardware competitor to steam deck is still a win for valve since they also mostly profit from sales on their steam service. Thus my point, any hardware company is not valve primary rival since if a consumer chose steam deck, valve wins, but if they chose the competitor, valve wins too. Epic, Ubisoft, and EA or whoever else that tries to provide the same service like valve should be their primary competitor.
  Edit: my point being, the deck doesn't need to be faster, or more power efficient, or more ergonomic. They just need to popularize the form factor. The fact that valve makes the deck so awesome on release, only to be overtaken by another hardware is not a loss for valve.

Valve's money comes from the service, not the device. The more there are, the better.

I had a Kyocera Slider, once. I loved to open and close that thing, and it was basically a fidget device. I also had an LG Chocolate 2 and 3, and the physical keyboard was fantastic.
This handheld incorporates both, but I really don't know if it can work in this form factor. Part of the reason it worked on the phones is they were relatively small, but with a wide handheld with joycons on either side, it seems like it would be clunky.
- I miss sliding/rotating phones. In general new phones were really exciting back then.
- Yeah, I'm not sure how to actually use this keyboard. You can't type with two hands and hold it up with two hands at the same time, and it'll be easy too wife to thumb type while holding it.
  I'm skeptical. The dual-trackpad typing on the Deck is pretty slick, too. With each thing controlling half the keyboard, it feels very similar to "real" typing, and it's fast enough for the light use that's needed for most gaming-related tasks. So, this is a very big (and therefore expensive) component to be including fire very limited value.
  If I really need to type a lot or quickly, I can grab my cheap Bluetooth keyboard (that would cost way less than the marginal cost of including a sliding keyboard like this one!)

Are we not going to talk about the empty PC case with just fans that are on like why yes it looks kinda cool but could you not have found a real PC just for the pitcher?
- The pitcher? Was that on purpose? 😂
  
  Hey don't make fun of me I have a hard time spelling and writing and sometimes reading
- I was thinking it was marketing implying all the parts went into the small device. That's probably too many dots to connect though
- It's really low res as well. Weird.

It's crazy that Microsoft hasn't made an interface for Windows for handhelds like this. They're leaving money on the table.
- They will release an Xbox mode, not only a UI. A true Steam OS alternative. But that takes time. I bet they are aiming for a 2025 release.
- I mean, Ive been begging for a new media and gaming mode since the failed Windows XP Media Center Edition.
- What money. I'm pretty sure most of these hardware are loss leaders
  
  The steam deck should be the only loss leader in handheld PCs, all the competitors need to make a profit on the hardware.
  Microsoft could actually sell an Xbox branded handheld at a loss as well, but they would need to force Microsoft store sales/game pass to recoup the cost.
  
  @Evotech @SilentStorms Indeed, consumer hardware is usually sold to sell more services, software or accessoires.
- The W-Box. Walk while you game!

Windows is dog shit.

What a strange design. Why the keyboard instead of how the steam deck does it? I never even use the touch screen. I type by selecting the letters with the dpad. Its... strange. Also no trackpads. I mean some people could like it? It just looks a bit fucked. Like someone glued their kids tablet to a controller/keyboard abomination from aliexpress.
- I've tried using a Bluetooth keyboard for my deck for gaming with really bad luck, I kinda think this design is cool but I won't be ditching my deck to try it out
  
  That's a shame, my favorite way of gaming on the deck (outside of some console port games) is Bluetooth mouse and keyboard, I play 4x and grand strategy games, along with many games that are "have not been tested for the deck". This new thing looks like it would be a huge pain because you're either going to have to play it while looking down at it on a hard surface, or you're going to be imparting motion on the device every time you try to use the keys (or the keys will be so soft that they're prone to sticking/errant inputs).
  My only trouble with Bluetooth m+kb on the deck is some games refuse to acknowledge you're not using the controls, and will pop up the keyboard interface every time a text entry box is opened, that's annoying but most games don't force that.
- I would say the biggest advantage is speed, but as someone who has use Xbox controllers for years and years, I can type pretty damn fast with a controller.

I got a onexplayer for like $600 and it has the 7840u in it. No matter how you slice it, the 7840u is much more powerful than the steam deck. However, it doesn't do well in low tdp. That's what the steam deck is best at - low tdp gaming and battery life.
But so long as I'm near an outlet, I can play more AAA games and on much higher resolution and graphics than the steam deck for however long I'd like. On battery, only about 3-4 hours vs 6-8 hours on a steam deck.
- I've never had resolution complaints on my handheld screen. There's been scaling troubles and other graphics shortcomings, but resolution has never been a problem, how close are you holding the deck to your face?
  
  Its about the same difference, but you can definitely tell the difference between 1600p and 720p.

This keyboard seems worse than any virtual keyboard 😅
- I have a Rii mini keyboard as a remote control for YouTube, when I sit back. Typing anything on such a keyboard is a struggle and usually don't type on it. The integrated keyboard from the handheld in the picture doesn't look particularly good either. But I have to say, with such a small screen and especially with Windows not optimized for this task, such a keyboard is probably better than having none.
  Alternative would be using a virtual keyboard on a small screen, which overlaps parts of it and does not have the greatest touch input screen. Look how small the screen is. Such a small 6" screen is only an option for smartphones, but not for an operating system like Windows with a regular desktop to play games on it. Therefore, such an integrated keyboard is probably a good idea. Even if it sucks.

It's gotta have a massive battery unless it's running AAA games for like 15 minutes...

I like the keyboard. If this could be incorporated in SD2 that'd be great. Improved upon, of course.
Edit: actually idk. Looks super unwieldy and a pain in the ass to use.