toxic help forum

It's that phenomenon where people who endured trauma to attain something expect others to also endure the trauma.
I've tried learning GIMP, and it sucks. I'm not saying GIMP sucks, but you have to be crazy to not see that it's hard to learn.
- Not vonly hard to learn, it lacks some really basic stuff like undestructive ediring (adjusment layers) and such.
  
  I am using 2.99.18 (non release, unstable build). Non destructive editing has landed. You can make adjustments through the usual menus and then enable/disable the adjustment under layer effects.
  
  I thought GEGL was supposed to fix that. Does it not, or are we still waiting on it, or what?
  
  The sudden South Indian accent surprised me (vonly)
- I’ve tried learning GIMP, and it sucks. I’m not saying GIMP sucks, but you have to be crazy to not see that it’s hard to learn.
  I use GIMP for memes and here's my two favorite tips
  Hit the forward slash key / to open a command palette and jump to any action
  To remove backgrounds, use a layer mask. select around the object and paint a white/black section on the layer mask. Here comes the trick: use a Gaussian filter on the layer mask to create a transition from black to white and the crop job looks a lot less choppy.
  My anti-tip
  Adding text and shapes sucks and I never found a way to make it better. Export your image and finish the job in Krita, Pinta, Photopea, ...
  
  fuck, i neverthought of the gaussian blur thing, i always just traced over the edge with a soft edged brush...
  
  select around the object
  Any tricks on getting the fuzzy select tool to work? Even after adjusting the threshold, it is just garbage in my experience. Nothing close to Affinity/Photoshop. Unless I am selecting something that is in front of a very solid background, I just use a paint brush on a layer mask in order to "cut out" an object.
- No, GIMP does suck.
  It has the same problem as most FOSS packages that are too wide in breadth and have multiple contributors with their own hobby horses pulling in all different directions, and to this day does not actually provide a feature-complete whole, nor an interface that actually makes sense. And it's not a matter of the workflow just being different -- it categorically fails to replicate functionality that is core to its commercial competitors. Numerous other "big" productivity packages have the same problem including FreeCAD (boy does it ever), LibreOffice, etc. I say this as a staunch supporter of FreeCAD, by the way. It's the only CAD software I use even though it's a pain in my ass.
  The shining exception to this I see is Inkscape, but it is still significantly less powerful than even early versions of CorelDraw.
  For 2D graphics work these days, I hold my nose and just use Corel. I use it for work. Like, actual commercial work. That I get paid for. It is at least a lesser evil than doing business with Adobe.
  And if you want to stick it to the man, it is easily pirated.
  
  In FOSS most people can program, but only a hand full of people can design a decent UI.
  
  Blender is also great, probably because it has organized teams, meetings, ongoing large projects, deadlines, etc
  
  I've worked professionally both using and developing (proprietary) CAD software, but even I have trouble getting FreeCAD to do what I want.
  
  Oh god FreeCAD is a nightmare to learn. But it does get work done. I wish Blender could move more into that space.
  Inkscape is lovely but imo it could use some interface cleanup. (And really it has been getting better each major update.)
  
  KiCAD has also improved greatly over the last few years. It still has an opinion on how the work flow should be, but that work flow moves pretty well. It's gotten easier to find pre-made footprints, too.
  If only library management didn't suck.
- The Autodesk forums are 40% this, 20% "just learn to program, spend a few years getting good at it, then write yourself a custom script to do what you are struggling with", 20% "you are wrong for wanting that in the first place" or "you are wrong for having this issue", 15% "this has been brought up once at some point in the past two decades, try searching", 4% "OMG yes I have this issue too!"...
  ...and 1% split between actual helpful answers, and confirmation that it's a known issue.
  
  Yeah, I recently found a post there where a person wanted to modify a downloaded mesh. The first comment was telling them they would need years of experience to do it well. The OP responded that they had figured out a solution that they were happy with, to which someone told him that his results were shitty and then explained a way to do it better. When the OP got upset at this back to back dismissal, everyone unanimously decided they were an asshole.
  
  So much this
  It's infuriating trying to find solutions to issues with Autodesk.
  But you did forget a classic one: "Hello I'm X from Autodesk support, you should open a support ticket so we can discuss this issue in a more one on one manner." And then the thread is closed without a solution.
  
  I've been happier worth with Bricscad, but I mostly just need it for designing stuff to 3d print, so your mileage may vary.
  It's also not FOSS, of course, but I haven't yet found FOSS cad software that works for me.
- I'm saying GIMP sucks (it sucks)
- I stuggled with GIMP at first, it was super frustrating because it does UI things differently than other image tools. i.e. in other tools your active layer masks your drag selection, and in GIMP I would constantly be grabbing lmages from another layer, till I realized the pixel under pointer determines what image is moved. That function can make you highly productive since you don't need to preset layer, but god was it enraging at first
- I've been using Gimp for years. It's the only way I know. If I tried to use photoshop I would have a hard time getting anything done too. I'm really good with gimp though.
  
  I've used Gimp all through my teenage years. And I used it a LOT. It was quite a difficult transition to Photoshop (which my workplace uses). But once I got the hang of photoshop, I realized how convoluted Gimp really is.
  Half the time spent in Gimp is making backups before making an edit. A third of your layers will be backup layers in case you change your mind about a design decision. The whole design process is super inflexible and therefor kills creativity.
  Want to use an effect like gaussian blur or drop shadow? Make sure you backup your layer! Want to edit text after you stretched it all out? I hope you made a backup of that layer! Want to work with large files with many layers? You better hit ctrl S after every edit, because the program just might crash on you if you make a difficult selection!
  To be fair, I haven't used much Gimp since 2.8, so if stuff is different now: awesome! And I admire all volunteers that work to make stuff better. But for now, I'll stay away from it if I need to do heavy editing.
- Photoshop is also hard to learn. What's your point? Just because it's different to what you used to does not means it's more or less difficult to learn.
  
  I'm not used to photoshop so I can't say anything about that.
  I was a big fan of paint.NET but now that I stopped using Windows, it's the only software that I really miss.
  It had fewer features than GIMP, but it was so intuitive yet surprisingly powerful.
  Have not found a similarly amazing alrernative, I wish Wine could make it work...
- I've tried learning GIMP, and it sucks. I'm not saying GIMP sucks, but you have to be crazy to not see that it's hard to learn.
  "Im not saying it sucks but it does" How do you want us to take you seriously when you don't even agree with yourself ?
  
  They didn't say GIMP itself sucks, they said leaning to use it sucks. Those are two different things.

I feel like it would be helpful to include the text of their post rather than just the title:
TL;DR Sorry if this is wrong group. GIMP = Epic POS. Do not use. Please recommend a decent alternative. Don't waste your time with GIMP help because I am done.
I hope the mods or the bots don't kill this post right away. It's a serious and legitimate question from a UX designer with several decades of experience, who doesn't want anyone else to suffer what I have. I didn't know where else to post it, so I'm trying here as a first-timer. I apologize if this is not in the spirit of the group.
I quit Adobe, can't afford the price any more (long story). I thought GIMP could replace Photoshop. But the user interface is horrible, and the app is full o' bugs.
Here's the straw that broke the camel's back.
I tried to make a meme. The font selection overlay was a tiny, pathetic, hard to read joke. Not even a font selection dropdown, let alone one that provided previews with every line item like PS does. Deep breath, continue. I type "Impact". Red text. I backspaced and typed "Im". All I got was Impact Condensed. (Yes, I have Impact, and have used it in PS). So I picked it anyway. Then I tried to find the outline font feature. In Photoshop, it's a simple "choose stroke" feature. GIMP? Hello?
I want to the Web to find a tutorial where it pointed out the feature. No luck. Searched again to find a workaround / hack. Mostly crap. Found one that was current and seemed decent. Followed it carefully. GIMP crashed.
While I appreciate the thoughts of anyone who may be compelled to point out a simple workaround or feature that I missed, don't bother. This is the last of many dozens of problems I have wasted my time working around while suffering many crashes, and I already uninstalled it.
So. Recommendations?
https://www.reddit.com/r/GIMP/comments/110opcc/can_anyone_recommend_a_suitable_replacement_for/?rdt=47111
I think it’s also worth giving the correction that there is a font selection dropdown with previews in GIMP. It’s to the left of the font input box.
- I use gimp but OP isn't wrong. Doing a stroke on text is mindless in Photoshop and very convoluted in gimp.
  
  GIMP needs the Blender treatment honestly. Inkscape too. That would cover the vast majority of what I do art-wise.
- Lmao tried to make a meme, cant because addicted to adobe.
- Gimp 3 might clear some of that up we will see
  
  I hear good things about Krita.
- "several decades of experience"
  skill issue central, lets's go.

anyone who has ever used image editing software professionally knows gimp's ui sucks very much.
we could have had an opensource photoshop killer if the developers werent adamant to keep the 90s workflow holding it back for so damn long.
"you are using it wrong!!" my ass.
- I mean, there's something to be said about adhering to an industry standard. Of course no project has to do so if they don't want to, but people trying to get on with their work don't want to spend a bunch of time relearning everything. I think Blender really thrived when they loosened up a little on their ideas of what a workflow should be and gave people industry standard options out of the gate.
  Whether we like it or not, GIMP isn't going to be most people's first experience with image manipulation. Whether they had a free PS license through school/work, had a subscription at some point, or once got it through ahem alternative means, people will be coming into GIMP with certain expectation of what the workflow should look like and will get frustrated pretty quickly.
  
  we saw a similar thing with blender, everyone kept shitting their pants over blender, until studios started actually using it, and then nobody cared.
  Most of the complaints are just people mad that they have to learn something. As is true for most things in life.

Just run photoshop on linux.
I don't understand why nobody ever mentions that it just works.
https://github.com/LinSoftWin/Photoshop-CC2022-Linux
- Linux just needs more competition in the image manipulation space.
  
  There isn't even a real photoshop competitor in the broader market, but you want to further split the hobbyist devs effort on linux as well?
  I think instead it would be better to focus all the effort on a single solution that strives to cover all of photoshops features, with at least equal or better usability. Like has been done with Blender and godot for example. (And GIMP is sadly faaar from it still)
- Is there an equivalent for lightroom?
  
  Darktable
  
  I am pretty sure it would run in the same wine setup, but nobody bothered to set it up as an install script yet, so you'd need to do some manual dirtywork.

many such cases. good to call it out, and needs to happen more often and consistently as toxicity is the #1 barrier to the “year of the Linux desktop” in my experience
edit: also https://krita.org/
- Krita is really good for digital drawing and painting, but photoshop does cover a lot of other things, which krita can not do. In that sense Krita is more of a Corel PaintShop Pro alternative. While GIMP is the best, but still very bad, alternative to photoshop.

To be fair
GIMP is really good
GIMP is hella complex to use
For example there was a (now enshittified) tool on Android called "image attacher" or something, for making a long image from 2.
This is probably also pretty easy with some CLI tool.
I actually took the time to learn "how do I attach 2 images together" in GIMP.
Or "how do I create a textmarker".
And the stuff works, but its just very complex.
attach 2 images
Open 1 image
"open" "open as another layer" the second image
your canvas is as big as the first image. Guess how big it has to be when fitting them next to each other
know that there is a difference between "layer surface" and "canvas" for whatever reason
in the menubar, find the canvas options
find where to resize the canvas and make it bigger
click on the surface layer of the other image and move it so it fits where you want it
use "merge downwards" to make the 2 layer one. BE CAREFUL TO NOT USE ANY IMAGE PARTS
use the crop tool
crop the new combined images to the wanted size
This is sooo manual and seems very hacky. The difference between canvas and layer make no sense to me. The enlargement is "eyeballing". The cropping too. There is no snapping when placing next to each other. There is no "dynamically increase canvas size" option afafaik.
text marker / highlighter
Something with brush, make it bigger, yellow, reduce the opaqueness, change the paint mode to "only make darker"
GIMP is like using cat awk and tail to write an office document lol. It works but it is damn technical.
But if you know how to do it, you know how to do it.
- it's also damn slow and destructive if you're trying to fit it into a true professional workflow with deadlines. i work with programs like it professionally and I only use gimp when i find myself on a random computer that doesn't have anything else. it'll get the job done, pretty much any job, but it might be very slow and painful. as someone who DEFINITELY knows how to use gimp, i understand the op they're clowning more than i understand the 1 peer i know that's actually managing to make money with a fully foss workflow. I also happen to know he largely doesn't sleep to accomplish it.
  gimp and darktable and similar projects are great, but workflow efficiency is what they do after they finish adding features. that just never happens. it's not the exciting work.
- This is probably also pretty easy with some CLI tool.
  This is one of the few image tasks I do on the CLI xD
  Stack two images horizontally (left and right)
  convert a.jpg b.jpg +append horizontal.jpg
  Stack two images vertically (top and bottom)
  convert a.jpg b.jpg -append vertical.jpg
  Images are not the same dimensions? Use gravity to align them at the center and make the unused space transparent
  convert a.jpg b.jpg -background transparent -gravity center +append horizontal.png
  
  I will make a dolphin context menu from that!
- See, this is exactly my point in my other comment above. I could do this in about five seconds with Corel PhotoPaint.
  Make a new document that's arbitrarily large.
  Import both (or all 3, or all 10, or however many) images. (Images can be batch imported.)
  Snap the first one to the top left corner.
  Snap the others below it. Their corners and edges will click together if you have alignment guides enabled. 4a. Optionally resize any of the images by just typing in the value you need in pixels, in the toolbar when it's selected. If you need to know the size of any other image, just click it and it'll tell you. It's not even in a menu.
  Crop tool (D) to knock the oversized canvas down to whatever size you need. Again, you can just type this in, in pixels, and it's not even buried in a menu.
  Export, post, accumulate lulz.
  Export to a flat format (.jpeg, .png, .gif, whatever) and your output will be flattened. You don't need to think about layers or merging or layers being bigger than the canvas or not. There is no, "Be careful not to XYZ." What you see in the preview is what the output will look like. Period. You can even apply your monitor's color calibration to it or the color profile of any other output device (printer, a different monitor, etc.) on the fly if you are a big enough nerd.
  You can do this in an even simpler dumber way in CorelDRAW!
  Import the images. Images can still be batch imported.
  Arrange them however you want, snap them together, whatever.
  Lasso them all and export.
  That's... literally it. You don't have to crop, you don't have to trim, or layer, or anything. You can specify the dimensions of the output file in the export window before you hit save if you want it to be different than the original. Your arrangement doesn't even have to be rectangular and it will still work.
  
  I could do this in about five seconds with Corel PhotoPaint.
  that is because you are familiar with corel photopaint. i could do that faster than you in gimp, because i am familiar with gimp.
  and yes, using tool capable of doing lot of complex tasks takes more time to learn than some single-purpose tool that is optimized to do one task (and even then you have to learn how to use it). that is like wondering that learning to pilot aircraft takes longer than learning to ride on a bicycle.
  
  I also likely did too many steps. You dont need to merge layers on GIMP. It will also just get flat but I dont know if the cut feature would work.
  It VERY likely does.
  But having guides everywhere, snapping, is really important.
- Attach two images? That's concatenation! Use cat!
  
  This is a joke, is it? Can you literally just cat the image files next to each other?

To be fair, you can’t exactly ask for a GIMP replacement on r/GIMP and not expect that reaction
- Sure you can.
  
  I mean, you can expect it, but you'll be disappointed for obvious reasons
  Walking into a fan group and shitting on the thing they're fans of while asking for recommendations for alternatives is pretty much never going to result in a positive outcome

I've tried using GIMP and it absolutely sucks and I wish there was a good paint.net replacement.
Something I found about a lot of open source projects is that the UI is always terrible
- Krita is pretty good.
- https://www.pinta-project.com/ based on older version of paint.net source code.
- I do get, why people dislike GIMP. It has a bit of a steep learning curve. And approaches things uniquely.
  But for a FOSS paint equivalent: have you tried Pinta? It's much less complicated, and the UI isn't too bad.
  
  Based on the screenshots I see, it looks a lot better. I'll give it a try, thanks!
- I use https://www.photopea.com/. It is an online editor and never disappointed me.

I've been using GIMP for so long and I don't know how to use Photoshop so all the "weird" things about GIMP is normal for me.
Also feel like if I learn Photoshop, I'll never touch GIMP again. D:
- I learned Photoshop, then I learned GIMP. There's nothing wrong with GIMP, it's a perfectly good software. People just only put in effort to learn something if they pay a corporation. If something's free, they think it's supposed to be no effort to learn. But they have no problem putting in the same effort to a premium software.
- You chose the gimp life!

I recently started having the bug again where Gimp crashes when changing text color. Apparently related to Wayland, but I can't change back to xorg just for gimp. Extremely frustrating as I've had that bug half a year ago, then it went away and now its here again.
Anyway, Krita and Photopea are pretty good replacements. Handling Text in Krita is horrible and working in a WebApp with Photopea is weird, but overall still better than crashing...
Jesus have my expectations for Linux software fallen over the years.
- stuff like this is why i'm waiting a few years to move over to wayland properly.
  I just don't have the time and energy for this kind of stuff, sure X is a dinosaur, and fucking ginormous, but it also just fucking works™ and i don't have to deal with updates, because it's literally feature complete.
  
  Except when X doesn't fucking work ™ and hasn't properly worked in literal decades. I don't think I've ever managed to get rid of horizontal tearing with X. Calling X feature complete is pretty funny, but it isn't. So many things were never fully implemented, because it's just an impossible amount of work or would require some major rearchitecting. You don't have to deal with updates because literally no one wants to develop it any further or even maintain it. The devs have moved on to Wayland or other things.
  It's fine if it works for you, but I'm getting tired of Linux conservatives projecting their own experiences on everyone else and declaring Wayland as "not ready yet" and handwaving all of X's obvious problems away because they're used to dealing with them. I've used Wayland as a default for all my machines for years. After a rough beginning where major features were still in development, now it works. XWayland works. Native Wayland apps work. I don't have tearing anymore. I'm not going to pretend that that's the universal experience, but a lot of people are using it just fine right now.
- That has been my experience with wayland. A bug pops up then goes away in the next release of the software only to reappear later on. You can report the bug you have but it seems no one is finding the actual cause since the bug report never moves.

Linux users try not to be Apple fanboys but replace popular Apple product with popular Linux product challenge (impossible)

GIMP would be infinitely better if they just changed the name so we could talk about it around normal people without getting dirty looks
- Just don't live in an English speaking country, easy!
- Also if they made it have a workflow friendly to people who are used to almost anything else
  
  almost anything else
  You mean photoshop right?

Krita is great.
- I feel like Krita is more focused on digital painting, rather than image editing
  
  I mean, what exactly does gimp or photoshop do (besides the RAW editing tools--but if you're using those you're already a professional) that Krita doesn't?
- Came here to say Krita as well. Its fantastic and pretty easy to learn.

I use Pinta. It's kinda like the Linux paint.net. Not too many features it's overwhelming, but just enough to do basic stuff.

I kind of agree. I'm not a pro but I've been using gimp to do little bits of editing (mostly to make slack emojis and memes) for a few years, and I constantly encounter little things that seem like they should be simple and intuitive, but are not.
I haven't used Photoshop in over a decade, but I feel like I rarely felt the same frustration regarding basic tasks.

krita ai paint is pretty dope
- krita ai paint is pretty dope
  Oh wow, wasn't aware of that plugin. Looks nifty.
- ai?
  
  stablediffusion

That’s literally what’s left of Reddit these days. Literally. Just brutal how bad the API affected them and how Reddit doesn’t give two fucks. It’s just a cess pool of ignorance.
- To be fair it looks like it was posted in r/gimp and we don't know what the OP actually said in the text. In my experience, usually, when something like this happens, they usually heavily criticize something and call it 'garbage' or something similar.
  It'd be like going into any passionate community about something and calling it trash, then being 'shocked' that there's a bunch of responses belittling them. This isn't a FOSS specific problem. Go into r/windows or even r/techsupport and trash it while comparing it to anything else like MacOS, Linux, *BSD, whatever and you'll get a bunch of toxic responses. This would also be mostly true of any other non-computer hobbyist communities surrounding a specific brand or product.
  When I would see someone ranting "I'd switch to Linux but the community is toxic" in somewhere like PCMasterRace, I'd ask "Can you link to the post?" and if they did it was so common that they straight up trashed Linux in whatever distro community that they posted to that I don't recall a single instance of it simply being "Hey I have this problem. What do I do?" and there being nothing from the OP trashing it in responses or the original post.
  I'm not sure if it will become the same as the federated community gains popularity and you have more regular user-type people posting in those niche/passionate/whatever communities more regularly.
  
  Yeah but the problem is I've seen enough of these "support" forums turn to this, unprovoked, that I don't quite question this being possible
  
  They didn’t “say” anything. Look at the screenshot. There’s no body, just the headline. So they literally went to that sub asking if there was an alternative.
- That post was two months before Reddit announced it was going to make API changes.
- Reddit could always be aggressive, and if you search up the OP it looks like they went into a passionate community and stirred it up.
  They didn't deserve this level of vitriol or the lack of elucidation though. That's definitely gotten worse over time. Part of why I left was how aggressively immature it had become, to the point where you couldn't have normal conversations there anymore.
  
  Reddit has hit rock bottom. I was banned from a sub because their bot crawled thru my history and found I "interacted" with subs they didn't like (subs like fauxmoi). I said the fit on this girl didn't do her justice and was shadow banned and my post locked because the sub apparently didn't allow criticism of any kind. And that's what Reddit is now. Subs with power hungry mods and admins, Reddit staff not even giving a fuck anymore, all of it makes the place such a ridiculous silo that if you say anything out of line in any sub, it's downvote and likely removal of content at this point.
  All the tech savvy people left (obviously) so now its edgy jokes and dumb suggestions. Call them out, and boom, downvote mob coming in hot.
  What a fall in such a short time.

Online forums have not changed since the dawn of the online forum. Tho. Just look at any online forum (and dare I say a Lemmy forum). Same shit, different decade or even century or millenium! Just look at me. I'm drunk and bored and playing with my phone while watching crappy movies. Only time i turn to an online forum. Because i know better.
- I don't know, forums were much smaller back in the day. You could find a good community, because it was possible to organize one. But I don't think that's possible at today's scale.
  
  I've never found a "good community" IR or online. Since, like, when I learned how to say my first words, which was in the late 1970s. What I have found is a lot of bullshit about creating community and communities. People are mostly in everything for themselves. It makes sense. You can join a community and leave one. To summarize: Communities exist in the imagination.
- Don't say Lemmy is a forum.
  last time I argued that people got irrationally angry.

Tux Paint is feckin awesome. Not even photoshop has sound effects when you use a tool.
- Back in a day we played with it with my cousins when they were kids (and I was teenager). There was some big insect like hornet or at least wasp with that scary noise. The younger one was afraid of it to the point he would run away, screaming and crying (no exaggeration here). And the older one loved to scary the shit out of his younger bro to the point he still mentions it with a smile sometimes even though they’re now 20+

It looks like this was asked in a GIMP forum, so I’m not really surprised at the backlash. It’s super rude to ask that in that forum. Like, they shouldn’t be rude back, but I understand why they were.
- It looks like this was asked in a GIMP forum, [...] It’s super rude to ask that in that forum.
  Why? Just because you're using a forum for a piece of software, presumably because you want to receive or offer help on using the software for the most part, doesn't mean you're obsessed with it and hate all other alternatives that exist.
  It's software, not a religion. These people need some perspective.
  Imagine being in a community where being asked about alternatives is considered extremely rude. What a weird group of cult-like obsessives that would be. Creepy o.O
  Also regarding why one would ask GIMP users about alternatives, theoretically these would be the best people to ask for GIMP alternatives. They presumably know the software well, and have probably tried alternatives (because they're not obsessive weirdos that worship a single brand image their whole lives), and can give good answers on what alternatives exist and how they compare to GIMP in its current feature set.
  They may even actively use multiple softwares on a regular basis. There's no law against using GIMP and one or two similar pieces of software that perhaps have slightly different features or are better at one thing vs another.
  It's not rude to put a reasonable question about a piece of software and how it exists in the ecosystem to a group that knows a lot about that software. It isn't a sacred holy cult object of worship. It's just a program.
  
  Because those people are there (presumably) to help people use GIMP. If you read the guy’s full comment, they were obviously there to take a shit on GIMP. And that’s fine, but maybe don’t do it to a whole bunch of people who have volunteered their time to help other people with it.
  I disagree that this is the best group to ask about alternatives. These are GIMP people. If you want them to recommend something, they’re clearly going to recommend GIMP. A much better place to ask this question (assuming they weren’t just trying to shit on GIMP) would be a general digital photography forum, or an open source forum. A place where people use a wide variety of programs.
- Is it? It's just a forum it's not like he's asking the devs
  
  It would be like going into a Microsoft forum and asking about alternatives to Windows. That’s obviously not the right place to do it. They should ask this in a general digital photography forum, or a general open source forum.
  They also called GIMP an “epic POS” in their comment.

inkscape in my opinion is intuitive to use, maybe because before I was used to Photoshop
- Isn't that more for vector graphics though? Not really an equivalent.
  I may be wrong
  
  Inkscape is for vector art, yeah. Great for design, not for like, painting.
  Krita is pretty great for a free digital art app. But I used it for about a year and could never quite get used to it. I recently went back to Clip Studio Paint (with my perpetual license they do still honor), and my experience just improved so much. It was like... ah, yes, an art program that clearly paid people to specifically make the UI easier to use for non-programmers, what an underrated feature.
  
  That's exactly it, yes. Gimp for raster, Inkscape for vector.
  
  I secured a major promotion at one point in my life using inkscape to create a business logo for the company I was climbing. I learned all about vector graphics and how they scale seamlessly, and loved it and gained a new appreciation for logo design in the pre-AI days. I did eventually make it to VP position in that company before the great economic collapse of '09 forced 80% layoffs.
  
  hmm gimp also does vector, atleast I tried a while ago but it wasnt very pleasurable honestly

Wow! I have been looking for gimp alternatives or specific ways of doing things on gimp, compared to photoshop and most answers have been very honest and helpful!
Even gimp development team are open for suggestions but won't consider them before releasing version 3 that should release 'very soon'

Gimp isn't perfect. But neither is Photoshop. In fact Lightroom users grizzle that Photoshop is so much harder to use than Lightroom. It's a different animal.
I use Pinta or Paint.Net when I want a quick edit. But Gimp has the tools for serious editing. More tools, more hard to use.
Some Gimp things, yes! should be improved. And other things are being improved as we speak. And some things can be done on a photo much easier in Inkscape.
I hope the whiners donated to Gimp development? No? Then just please step back, and think for a bit. If thinking is too hard, then just take a deep breath.
- Donating to GIMP will not likely make it user-friendly enough to make me use it unless absolutely forced to. I would much rather donate to Pinta or PaintNET or something where development would actually benefit me.
  
  Yes. Pinta and Paint.net are often the best solution for lots of tasks. They will need help too.
  GIMP has come from nothing just on donations. As I can get results as good as PS very quickly, that is quite a feat. And soon v3 will be out with more goodies.
  
  This is always funny to me. I used it just fine for developing all the graphics for literally 5 mobile games on nothing but gimp
- Coming from Paint.NET, I first tried Photoshop and I felt its controls to be non-intuitive, so I reverted to Paint.NET.
  Later, I started using GIMP and coming from someone with no experience in either of them, GIMP and Photoshop are equally non-intuitive, so whenever someone complaining about GIMP, feels like they are coming from Photoshop, I just discount their rating.
  Inkscape is a vector graphics editor, which is different from GIMP.
  
  Some were complaining GIMPs text and shapes were hard to use. I put text on images in Inkscape. Inkscape is ideal for that, having all the tools to use on top of a pasted image.
- Thanks. Pinta looks promising. I was searching an alternative for gimp on linux, just for a quick edit.

Well, at least you don't have to suck dicks or whatever to vote and post comments like in ShitStackOverflow
- Uh huh, uh huh. And how many dicks do I ~~get~~ have to suck per vote? Can you provide a link and very detailed instructions on the process? You know, so I can make sure I never go there before my wife comes home from work.
- Duplicate question: 10-year-old-link-to-a-thread-that-doesn't-contain-an-answer-either

Local schools are offering "image editing" courses, which is always just learning how to use Photoshop. They are 4 3-month courses. People just need to accept they think Photoshop is easy because they've using it for so long and they're used to it.
Good news is that since recently they also offer the courses with GIMP.
- Sorry, but no
  I used GIMP FIRST and almost all the shit people say about it being unintuitive were still true. I struggled with it and bitched to my Linux loving friend about it and he just laughed and said "yeah everyone says that"
  
  Agreed. I never took courses on either piece of software. At the age of 12, I tried both PS 6.0 and GIMP (whatever version was the latest in the year 2000). I found Photoshop to be considerably easier to use, and that's what I've stuck with ever since. GIMP was at the time—and continues to be—completely and utterly unintuitive. It should have been completely rewritten from scratch over 20 years ago.
  
  PS is equally confusing ngl.
  Part of the problem with GIMP, is the same problem with PS, there are about a thousand different buttons you can click, and at any given time, 3 to 4 different menus you can select from to get to any given option. There's just no good way to design a UI around that lmao.
  I was able to pick up PS more so than GIMP, but only because i had an instructor lmao. GIMP is just as bad, except for the fact that it doesn't have adobe creative cloud, and it's actually kind of usable as a result.
- All school programs are basically bought and paid for by big business. Adobe, MS, all control their bottom line this way. So of course they’ll only teach you MS Office and Photoshop.

Tux Paint does go crazy though
- here's my last opened tux paint "art" for you
  
  Hanging it on my digital refrigerator.
  
  fire

it's accurate though.
The amount of PS users i see trying gimp for all of about 2 seconds and then shitting themselves when it isn't exactly the same as PS is funny to me.
There are important technological differences i suppose, but i rarely see people complain about that.
GIMP is a monster, as is PS. There is no getting around it.
- I don't think that GIMP should be the same, but it does have issues with usability. And when you search "how to do X in gimp", you'll probably find a 10 steps guide, while in PS that'd be a couple of clicks. There's no DDS plugin that supports all compression methods at all. There are so many things that won't go away no matter how many seconds or minutes or years you'll put into learning GIMP.
  
  You could probably use a Python script to handle any missing compression methods. Gimp is more readily extensible.
  
  i'm not super intimate with GIMP, as an amateur myself, but aren't like 90% of actions keybound? At least the commonly used ones? Seems like it would be beneficial to just learn them.
  The DDS plugin isn't a usability issue, that's a feature issue.
- Show me how to change 1 pixel in an image. I'd actually be truthfully thankful and will consider to try to use gimp again (last time I tried the mouse didn't position/choose the zoomed in pixels correctly).
  Show me how to open an image, make a small modification, then:
  (step 2) save it and close GIMP under 10 clicks.
  They deliberately changed so you can't save your modified image? I mean WTF? You have to export it with all the popups as you overwrite, hold your breath, the image that you opened and want to save!!1!.
  Then trying to nag you into saving it to some unknown unused bizarre gimp extension.
  It's like they don't want people to switch. And it's such a shame as the soft is getting better and better all the time.
  
  (step 2) save it and close GIMP under 10 clicks.
  File -> Overwrite (2 clicks)
  File -> Quit (2 clicks)
  Yes I want to quit, even though I haven't saved it as an .xpf file (1 click)
  Total: 5 clicks
  
  Then trying to nag you into saving it to some unknown unused bizarre gimp extension.
  You mean saving a project file? The same way you'd save a PSD file in PS, so you can actually save all your layers and go back to make an edit? It's been a while since I've used Photoshop, but I'm pretty sure both GIMP and PS offer two different workflows of saving/exporting your work and they are just named differently and have different keybinds. I have no idea how you can act like you actually tried to use GIMP as something other than a drop-in replacement for PS, but then call the default GIMP project file format "unknown, unused and bizarre"...
  
  File > overwrite yourimage.jpeg
  Ctrl+Q
  That's 2 mouse clicks and one keyboard shortcut.
  You can even make number 1 keyboard shortcut if you want. How is that any more laborious than photoshop?
  
  Show me how to change 1 pixel in an image. I’d actually be truthfully thankful and will consider to try to use gimp again (last time I tried the mouse didn’t position/choose the zoomed in pixels correctly).
  i would assume the dropper tool, or something similar. I've never actually tried, as i do more image editing, rather than pixel doctoring, but i imagine it's possible. You could probably also just set the brush size to be 1 px. That would probably work.
  Show me how to open an image, make a small modification, then: (step 2) save it and close GIMP under 10 clicks.
  i don't understand why everyone is so obsessed with the mouse tbh. Keybinds are better, though less intuitive, and at the end of the day, it doesn't really make a significant difference, because if you wanted to do something quickly, you would simply use keybinds.
  As for me though, i can open GIMP without touching my mouse, make a handful of edits, probably stitch a couple images together all without touching my mouse, and then save export and close GIMP, without having touched my mouse. But i'm not a try hard, so lol.
  They deliberately changed so you can’t save your modified image? I mean WTF? You have to export it with all the popups as you overwrite, hold your breath, the image that you opened and want to save!!1!.
  idk what you're even talking about here. You should absolutely just be able to hit CTRL s and have it do a project save, or probably the other bind, for the save as, and then just manually rename it.
  Then trying to nag you into saving it to some unknown unused bizarre gimp extension.
  you mean the XCF format? I'm pretty sure PS just works with those, if not it's probably just an average adobe skill issue session at play. They're fine.
  It’s like they don’t want people to switch. And it’s such a shame as the soft is getting better and better all the time.
  what could they do to make people want to switch? Copy photoshop? Use PSD? I don't disagree that the UI is a bit of a mess tbh, that's just how mouse navigated UI tends to be at the end of the day. Shitty.
- I could never get on with either of them. I was always a Paint Shop Pro man.
  Have to use Paint.NET these days.
  
  im a certified GIMP amateur. I just make shitposts in GIMP from time to time.
- This

Photopea dot Com is pretty solid and it's a website not a download. Has good complexities for the non profesional that wants to do more but doesn't need or want photoshop.

The amount of times I see, "Have you tried just googling it?" As a response to a tech issue is too damn high.
The best part is seeing those answers in threads that I got to by googling my question.
"Thank you for your helpful advise of 'just Google it' I've now found dozens of threads with that exact same answer to the question I have."

I honestly think it's unfair to judge someone for not putting significant time into learning another complex program. I've used Photoshop since it first existed, and it's basically a lifetime of knowledge. A combination of things has brought me to exploring other open source solutions, but GIMP is definitely unintuitive in comparison. I'm only putting the time in because there's literally no alternative that's as powerful and ubiquitous an image editing solution, but I'd also be the first to jump on alternatives that would make the transition easier. It's especially not fair to cast that judgement on professionals who don't really have the time to invest in learning a new tool from scratch.

Krita

A person shows up in a room full of random people. Punches one in the face and starts swinging at everyone else. People instinctively start to defend themselves and, as they are more numerous, overwhelm and badly wound the instigator. OP walks into the room, "everyone in this room is so violent, look everyone, they are so violent". People outside the room hearing OP, "yeah, I bet anyone like them is just as violent".
“GIMP = Epic POS. Do not use. Please recommend a decent alternative. Don't waste your time with GIMP help because I am done.”
- Also it’s funny that there is a dropdown with font previews in GIMP, despite this guy’s statement. Admittedly, it’s in an odd place (on the left of the font input box, rather than on the right, and doesn’t have a dropdown icon, but a font preview), but it’s there. It took me three clicks to find it.
  I just tried it out. Picked a font I liked, right clicked the text, selected Filters -> Light and Shadow -> Drop Shadow, set offsets and blur to zero, grow to 10, opacity to 1, and boom, I had text with a stroke effect. I’m not sure why this guy had so much trouble. Maybe it’s cause I come from a CSS background, and that’s exactly how you would add a stroke effect in CSS.
  Took me all of two minutes to make that, and I’m not a GIMP wizard.

Dinosaur here.
Windows Paint, as it was back in 9x? Totally my jam. Between that and Irfanview for access to resizing and filter features Paint didn't have, I could get a surprising amount done.
But then they updated Paint to have more advanced abilities and I had no idea how to do things any more.
I've tried Krita recently, but I felt lost. I think I need to attend a course or watch some videos on layers and the brushes and everything like that. It isn't intuitive at all. None of the advanced graphics programs are.
Old Paint? You didn't need a how-to or a course. It was one layer. No overwhelming number of tools and options. You wanted another layer? You opened another Paint window.
You wanted anti-aliasing? You drew things two or four times the size then used something like Irfanview to shrink it down when you were done.
Damn kids get off my etc.
- Totally agree, sometimes I just need to crop an image and it's not intuitive at all on the big programs. I've found paint 3D is fairly solid and non complex for most simple things one needs to do with images.
  
  Cropping in Krita or GIMP is super simple. Open Image, rectangle select what you want to keep, then Edit > Trim To Selection, then File > Export.

Oh, vim community became gimp community.

Photopea. It's photoshop but on your browser.
- Pixlr-E is in that same category.

I've been using gimp for as long as I can remember using Linux since 2000. The interface has changed so much lately that I can barely use it. I can't find half the controls anymore.
- The biggest revelation for me when I switched to Photoshop for work about 4 years ago is that non-destructive editing is sooooo much nicer.
  I always had dozens of "backup" layers in my years with Gimp just in case I messed something up. I was always cautious about the order in which you had to do things. I was amazed with photoshop at the fact that you could edit text after warping, gradient coloring and outlining it. Saved so much hassle.
  I read non-destructive is in the pipelines for Gimp, and that would finally make it start become a viable alternative again.
  
  Non destructive means like when you use a tool to add something, it isn't "final". You can still edit that brush stroke or resize a shape?
  Kind of like in Inkscape when you edit an SVG?
- Well, I don't know if it'll be maintained long term considering the disclaimer at the top of the README, but the PhotoGIMP plugin has always kept the interface consistent for me, and I've had it installed working well for 3.5 years now.
  https://github.com/Diolinux/PhotoGIMP
  
  Oh that's really cool
  
  Well, there were no real GIMP changes in that period lol

IMHO part of the issue seems to be the question without any context. I believe people would be more helpful if they had explained what they wanted to do and how GIMP wasn’t the right tool for that specific task. It’s what would make me ignore the question (not scold people, no need).

I'm annoyed no one ever bothers to mention this:
https://github.com/LinSoftWin/Photoshop-CC2022-Linux
- because it's illegal
  
  Cool crime in my book. Fuck Adobe with a pineapple.
  
  oh my god. youre telling me now!?!
  
  nuh uh you see, there is a disclaimer
  DISCLAIMER: Please use this software only if you have an active Photoshop subscription. I'm not responsable of any use without subscription.
  all is good and legal here officer!

honest, lads. imagine the forum culture would change to be friendly and welcoming. wouldn't you feel like you lost a little bit of home? 🥲
- The issue here is if you are on a forum about a specific piece of software and are an active user, then anyone asking for alternatives seem like they are personally attacking you and your choices. At least to those people that replied above.
  
  Life becomes a hell of a lot easier when you stop worrying about shit like that.

Ah, the elitist GIMP crowd. The most toxic OSS community. Those are the same people who won’t do any gaming on Linux because they refuse to install proprietary software. They’re all sweaty middle-aged men with unwashed asses, neck hair thicker than their chest hair, and an allergy to women who are allowed to speak.
- It sounds like you have made some personal experience with that crowd xD
  
  Yeah, if you do any sort of work with art or photography, and you use Linux, you run into them at some point. To be fair, it’s not GIMPs fault that they rally around that software, it’s just a subset of Linux users who like to stick their noses in the air that consider GIMP the only valid choice since it’s FOSS. You also see it sometimes when a Linux newbie asks for opinions on a good starter distro to get their feet wet.
  Fortunately, with the increased popularity of Linux with desktop users, and of course the golden age of Linux gaming being upon us, those sort of people are becoming a tiny minority. I have faith there will be a point when they’re so few that they get ostracized from communities unless they stop being fucknozzles.
- I don't install proprietary software. Its a feature not a bug.

Least toxic Linux thread

Photopea

Lazpaint
Pinta
Krita
Asesprite

Yeah I have an alternative to gimp

I dunno if it was you asking the question or not but ^^;; if you want some decent replacements for gimp I recommend krita, it's more Photoshop like and honestly it's my go-to however there is also photopea which is a browser editor that I heard is actually pretty good, and if you're on Mac or Windows (if so I dunno why you'd post here XD) I recommend the Affinity suit, it's cheaper than Photoshop and it's a one time payment instead of a subscription.
- I was just lurking, but I appreciate you sharing your knowledge and I like your use of the ^^;; and XD emojis :3

Kolourpaint is exactly like mspaint but on linux. It's perfect for everything from simple to intermediate tasks

My problem with gimp is that I've never really used Photoshop (I may have back in it's very early versions, but I don't think so). I mostly just use something like Ms paint to take and crop screenshots or photos. Jumping into gimp (and presumably PS as well) is going to confuse people trying to do that.
I still don't know how to use gimp just because I never need all that functionality and don't have time to learn. Maybe someday.

Always has been, and I am using Linux since 1993 (my first install was kernel 0.99, on floppies, on a 486DX50)
- Can't go back that far, but this reads like the first few responses from a question asked in #slackware on IRC.

Windows paint is actually better. Maybe that's why they banned his account

It's just bots being bots

GIMP needs more macros to do basic things. Like dont add more tools, but have a button "textmarker" that automatically selects all the things.
Is this possible via plugins?
This is just like documentation 2.0

GIMP is already a suitable requirement

Affinity really needs to start making official Linux ports. It’ll work in Wine, but is a bit janky.
- I really, REALLY hope canva won't screw up affinity.
  
  Oh fuck. I didn’t realize they’d been bought… let alone by another god-forsaken cloud-subscription-based business model.
  Affinity is as good as dead.

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