White House assessing if Israel violated "red line" with Rafah strike
White House assessing if Israel violated "red line" with Rafah strike
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I'm done assessing whether I'm voting for Biden in November, that's for sure. Bring on the orange man, so be it.
If you're mad at Biden, why would you vote for someone that promises to be worse?
There's no sense to it. The only message you will be sending is that you approve of even greater atrocities.
Also, in case you're completely blind, Netanyahu wants Trump back in office. He's going to do everything he can to stay in power and convincing rubes to vote for Trump because "genocidin Biden" is part of his strategy.
How would Trump be worse for the Palestinians?
Would Bibi bomb even harder? Because he seems to be ignoring international pressure now. Would Trump give even more bombs to Bibi? Because there doesn't seem to be a handle on the throttle now.
Trump moved the embassy. Did biden move it back?
Trumps despicable. There's lots of reasons to prefer biden come November, but how is biden better on this issue?How would Trump be worse for the Palestinians?
Trump told donors he will crush pro-Palestinian protests, deport demonstrators
Trump has waffled on whether the Israel-Gaza war should end. But speaking to wealthy donors behind closed doors, he said that he supports Israel’s right to continue “its war on terror.”
"Israel, Trump argued, needs his help. Street demonstrations for Israel get smaller crowds than his rallies, he said."
That's despicable for sure.
That's not any different from the Palestinian point of view thoughIt's hard to say. Trump would certainly ensure that there's no change in policy. He could potentially encourage Netanyahu to be more brutal and carpet bomb the whole place.
I'd like to think though that the pro Palestinian protests are going to affect change, and have already caused the administration to make some better choices, like when they stopped a shipment of bombs recently because they were concerned it could kill a lot of civilians if Israel used it in Rafah.
I look at it this way. The protests are the best way to try and push our foreign policy in a better direction, and we have seen some Democrats start to listen. Pelosi of all people flat out disagrees with the idea of Johnson inviting Netanyahu to speak to the House. It's taken time, but I think the protests are slowly succeeding. I think they will matter.
I'm optimistic about the protests as well.
What's the difference between what's going on now and carpet bombing? 60% of buildings in the strip have been damaged by bombs. Sources from december are saying that it's the most destructive bombing campaign since the second world war. Gaza is already being carpet bombed.
Fair enough.
Yes it is. Imagine stopping every single drop of aif that is currently happening. Imagine US-Bombers actively bombing the strip.
It can and it will get worse.
Yes, bibi would bomb even harder. Bibi would kill every last Palestinian if he could. Yes, Trump would give even more bombs, and tanks, and aircraft, and whatever else Israel asked for. Bibi would literally have carte Blanche with Trump in the white house. If that's what you, along with at least two more supreme court appointments, mass deportation, an end to birthright citizenship, and oh by the way, the effective end of elections in this country then go ahead and vote against Biden. Maybe you'll be second or third against the wall if you're lucky.
Wow.
Can't put any criticism against Biden here...
We're clear that every Republican candidate is worse than the last. Voting biden in 2024 will help the short term. You're going from crisis to crisis. It's by design. Can't put the neighborhood fire out if you're always worried about your house.Criticism of Biden is fine. Floating the idea of voting for anyone but Biden is fucking mental. This is as binary a choice as you will ever have when it comes to presidents.
Bibi is under international pressure not just from US. I can’t see how he could go harder if the US stopped pressuring him while still publicly defending him.
So, in other words, you want the Palestinians to just die, huh? I'm impressed. Not only are you throwing vulnerable Americans under the bus, but also those protesting Israel's actions, and the Palestinians themselves.
Be honest with yourself. You don't give a damn about the Palestinians or any brown people. You just want to use them to score political points. And as a brown person myself, I find that utterly despicable.
Source:
Trump told donors he will crush pro-Palestinian protests, deport demonstrators
Trump has waffled on whether the Israel-Gaza war should end. But speaking to wealthy donors behind closed doors, he said that he supports Israel’s right to continue “its war on terror.”
"Israel, Trump argued, needs his help. Street demonstrations for Israel get smaller crowds than his rallies, he said."
So, in other words, you want the Palestinians to just die, huh?
No, I don't. Biden isn't doing anything to stop it anyway. I want something to vote FOR rather than just voting against something I don't want. Biden is not earning my vote right now.
Trying to prevent more Palestinians from dying isn't something to vote for?
Look, I understand what you're saying. It would feel a lot better to vote for a candidate instead of voting against another one. But we don't have that luxury right now. We need to beat back the regressive rot first and foremost.
We cannot make progress while still so many accept the situation. This system will not allow change while the electoral college still exists. We need ranked choice voting and popular vote. Voting for Biden did not prevent Palestinians from dying, clearly. I'll never forget that we could have had Bernie Sanders as president, and we missed that opportunity due to greed.
If you vote like the Arabic community, you're throwing them under the bus?
“If it came down to Trump and Joe Biden, I will vote for Trump. Because it doesn’t get worse than Joe Biden,” a man named Salah told me. His friend, Amad, added, “Biden was supposed to be the peacemaker. The comfort-maker. Instead, he became accessory to the biggest genocide in modern history.”
...
“Imagine thinking it’s a good argument to say to a community that has lost 30,000 people, ‘Watch out for the guy that’s going to ban you.’ You’re really asking me whether I’m going to take a ban or a genocide? I’ll take a ban,” Zahr told me.
“I mean, we’ve literally seen our families and our people being thrown into mass graves. Babies blown to bits. It’s not some far-off thing to us,” he said. “It’s been a struggle to declare our own humanity while mourning for our people being massacred.”
...
The truth is Ahmed was one of the only Arabs I could find in Dearborn who openly admitted they actually planned to vote for Biden in November.
Perhaps you should try to furnish actual data instead of meaningless anecdotes. Don't give me a handful of people and pretend they represent everyone.
It should also be noted that Arabs are not a monolith. Several Arab countries refuse to take Palestinian refugees, and are even on friendly terms with Israel. They opened their airspaces to allow the Iranian attack to be intercepted, and Jordan even helped intercept some.
My on the ground reporting beats your nothing. But here's some data for you. The Arab American Anti-Discrimination Committee and the Truth Project asked 36,139 Arab Americans and “allied voters” "Who are you voting for in November?" 2,196 people responded. Here are the results:
2% Trump
7% Biden
25% Jill Stein
20% Cornell West
19% Undecided
23% Uncommitted
3% Stay home
A poll published at the end of October 2023 found "only 17% of Arab American voters saying they will vote for Biden in 2024—a staggering drop from 59% in 2020."
Then a couple weeks ago a NYT poll "found Trump leading among registered Middle Eastern, North African or Muslim voters in the swing states, with 57 percent saying they were planning to back him in November. Only 25 percent said they were supporting Biden."
Have an upvote for bringing receipts. It's noteworthy that the NYT poll mentions this however:
"However, Biden still held a lead over those voters who participated in the 2020 election, winning them 56 to 35 percent."
Regardless, I do concede your point. I'm interested in seeing how polls develop as we get closer to the election and the conflict continues. If Trump continues to open his mouth and express even deeper support for Israel and persecuting pro Palestinian protestors, the numbers may shift dramatically.
I hope that they do, at least.
I think things could change pretty quickly if a ceasefire is reached, and reached before another 35,000 people die. If this is still going on when the fall semester begins, it's going to be ugly.
A ceasefire is crucial. The only one who's against one from what I can tell is Netanyahu. The war isn't really doing anything, and I believe IDF commanders have said as much. The Israeli government has elements that believe they need to outright leave Gaza and just make sure there's a new governing body there that isn't Hamas. The Israeli people seem very pissed about the hostages still being hostage as well.
Combined with US pressure, I think we will see a ceasefire that looks to get the hostages returned and the violence to stop. Pressure is continuously building in that direction, and Netanyahu is obliviously making it more and more likely.
Let's hope there's a ceasefire and the beginning of aid and rebuilding. I think everyone left of center wants this to be over.
I appreciate the discussion we've had, and I'm sorry for being rude to you earlier.
I certainly hope you're right.
No worries! I get the frustration.
You're a good person, thanks :)
Yes, Middle East policy will definitely be better under Trump.
Edit: /s!!
/s right? ... right??
